Panasonic Lumix G1 4/3 format dslr

[Polar Bear]

What do the forum experts think?

[andyoxon]

Here's a review for starters...
Digital Camera Resource Page Review: Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1

and now available e.g. amazon  for ~£560

It's the first 'EVIL'* camera AFAIA and I have my eye on one.    I'm still biding my time to get a DSLR, currently use  Panasonic FZ5 superzoom and 35mm Nikon SLR.  The things that appeal about the G1 are compact size (compared to say Nikon D90), good IQ up to ISO800-1600 (compared to my slightly smaller FZ5 which can only really be used on ISO 80), great live view with decent AF, good EVF by all accounts...

But the G1 mkII will have HD stereo video capability (probably AF too)... though possibly cost more.   The lens range is a tad limited, but there are more in the pipeline.

* Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens

[mike]

close, but no cigar IMHO.  Why bother making it look like an SLR when it's not? 

The Olympus micro 4/3 camera (review here ) looks much more exciting to me, more like a digital rangefinder.

The kit lenses for micro 4/3 arent that hot either yet, but more are appearing.. 

[andrew_s]

I'm already committed elsewhere (Canon), but it's an interesting development that I'll keep an eye on. It's a bit difficult to judge what benefit the small size is without seeing one (plus lenses) in real life, but I'd reckon that the advantage is in luggage space rather than pocketability.
I'm more interested in the Olympus micro 4/3 mockup, if they introduce a couple of pancake lenses to go with it. I'm still waiting for a replacement to the Contax T3 I had.

Restricted lenses shouldn't be too bad - there's meant to be an adapter for all the standard 4/3 lenses, though then you lose the small size benefit.
The EVF/Live View viewfinder system dictates the use of contrast AF, which is always going to be slower than phase detection AF, and the smaller sensor may prove noisy for those who use high ISO

[andyoxon]

close, but no cigar IMHO.  Why bother making it look like an SLR when it's not? 

The Olympus micro 4/3 camera (review here ) looks much more exciting to me, more like a digital rangefinder.

The kit lenses for micro 4/3 arent that hot either yet, but more are appearing.. 

mike, it looks similar to most of the superzooms, and DSLR-like because IMO, it needs a decent grip, takes IC lenses and importantly has probably the best EVF available - in the usual place.  I wouldn't want a camera system with IC lenses without a decent VF.

[Polar Bear]

I used to be a 35mm user:  Zenit E, Canon AE-1 and Minolta Dynax 7000i.   The big disadvantage of the latter in particular is size.   The AE-1 was best for size and weight.   However, I like something smaller to pack into the touring bags.

More recently I've been using a Panasonic TZ3 and it is good.   Interchangeable lenses though would be the cream.

I'm not sure what difference the sensor size makes though.  This 4/3rds format has to be better than the sensor in the TZ3, maybe not quite as good as a full dslr.  Probably not enough for me to get excited about though.   I'm just an amateur.

[andyoxon]

I used to be a 35mm user:  Zenit E, Canon AE-1 and Minolta Dynax 7000i.   The big disadvantage of the latter in particular is size.   The AE-1 was best for size and weight.   However, I like something smaller to pack into the touring bags.

More recently I've been using a Panasonic TZ3 and it is good.   Interchangeable lenses though would be the cream.

I'm not sure what difference the sensor size makes though.  This 4/3rds format has to be better than the sensor in the TZ3, maybe not quite as good as a full dslr.  Probably not enough for me to get excited about though.   I'm just an amateur.

The 4/3 sensor (18.00 x 13.50 mm, 2.43 cm²) in the G1 (and all the Pana/Olympus dSLRS) is ~ 10x the area of the TZ3 sensor (1/2.35 " (5.68 x 4.26 mm, 0.24 cm²)), and as a consequence a much lower pixel density. This will make a lot of difference, for low light photography (less noise at higher ISO), and probably dynamic range...  (did I miss anything?)

this is quite a helpful sensor size comparison from wiki:
Image:SensorSizes.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[frankly frankie]

But the G1 mkII will have HD stereo video capability (probably AF too)... though possibly cost more.   The lens range is a tad limited, but there are more in the pipeline.

I suspect it may also have a radically different form factor - ie not be a typical 'stills' camera at all.

I must say I rather lust after the G1 or similar, fitted with the Voigtlander 40mm/f1.4 lens
http://www.cameraquest.com/jpg6/Voigt%2040b%201.jpg
making a very compact fast 80mm-equiv, my favourite walkaround sort of focal length.
Since the G1 seems to be very good at manual focus, this might be a workable combination, M and A exposure modes are all I ever use, just a shame about no in-body IS.
A (3rd-party) m4/3-M adaptor is reputedly well on its way.

[andyoxon]

But the G1 mkII will have HD stereo video capability (probably AF too)... though possibly cost more.   The lens range is a tad limited, but there are more in the pipeline.

I suspect it may also have a radically different form factor - ie not be a typical 'stills' camera at all.

I must say I rather lust after the G1 or similar, fitted with the Voigtlander 40mm/f1.4 lens
http://www.cameraquest.com/jpg6/Voigt%2040b%201.jpg
making a very compact fast 80mm-equiv, my favourite walkaround sort of focal length.
Since the G1 seems to be very good at manual focus, this might be a workable combination, M and A exposure modes are all I ever use, just a shame about no in-body IS.
A (3rd-party) m4/3-M adaptor is reputedly well on its way.

f-f,  great for portraits, but wouldn't an 80mm equiv  be a tad long for general use?  I can see the G1 20mm (40mm eq)  1.7 being a useful lens, a bit cheaper too. G1 pancake lens on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Rogerzilla,  interested in the G1 from a m4/3 to Leica M adapter POV?   

Here's the G1 HD (stereo microphone on top) with 14-140 
http://www.zone-numerique.com/uploads/News/Photokina%202008/nouvellesG_2_450.jpg?time=1222328642167

The 7-14mm (x2 eq) wide zooms sound good - probably not too cheap though...

[frankly frankie]

I must say I rather lust after the G1 or similar, fitted with the Voigtlander 40mm/f1.4 lens

f-f,  great for portraits, but wouldn't an 80mm equiv  be a tad long for general use? 

Its each to his own.  I've always preferred a medium tele as my 'default' focal length - just call me lazy ...

Try as I might I've never achieved anything worthwhile with a wider-than-normal lens - of my current Olympus 2-lens kit the 40-150 stays on the camera and the 14-42 is, after 2 years, still 'mint, unused', the only other lens I use is a Zeiss Planar 50/1.7 off my old Contax, when I need the extra speed the kit lens can't do. 
The G1/45-200/Voigtlander would be a similar but much neater (and better) kit, and no I can't justify the expenditure ...

[andyoxon]

Just been reseraching the G1 a little more...

If anyone's interested:

The review... Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

G1/LX3/Nikon D300 comparison
g1 vs d300 vs lx3 Photo Gallery by Bjorn Utpott at pbase.com

(from Panasonic Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review )

From a Canon user apparently...

I shoot with a 1DsMKIII and MKIII and got my daughter the G1 for our shoots together and I can say that the G1's versatility and output are superb.

This camera is not perfect, but is amazing for the $ and blows away my Canon G9 which is going up on ebay.

I am not sure what "sharpness" you are referring to, but I have never seen camera/lens combo of this price with such good output.

Yeah wide open and shooting distance, the lens' fault come out. This is not a 2000 dollar L f2.8 lens. But it is ONE HECK OF A LENS with great resolving power for the $.
This camera is so good that it is really a NO BRAINER

Panasonic Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

[Rob S]

They've updated the G1 already!!

Panasonic DMC-GH1 brief hands-on: Digital Photography Review

[Really Ancien]

What is interesting to me is that the current crop of Panasonic still cameras are starting to use the AVCHD codec for movies. This means that the AVCHD output is  PAL 25 fps. So you can integrate them into PAL projects. The G1 will probably have the performance of a prosumer Video camera. I'm more interested in the FT1, a waterproof model recording at 1028x720, which looks like a good bet for use on the bike.
The G1 looks like it would be a good buy for surveillance use, there is probably a sizeable market worldwide for a handy 14 megapixel camera capable of 1080p HD with a good low light capability. The AVCHD codec is also structured in such a way as to make it hard to fiddle with, so probably good as evidence.

Damon.

[andyoxon]

I was pretty keen on the GH1 but at:

GH1 kit with 14-140 lens... 1550€ /~£1400 it seems like too much a premium on the HD video for me.    [14-140 lens only ... 900€, 7-14 lens only... 1250€]

G1 may get cheaper though.

[clarion]

That Olympus is pretty tasty...

[andrew_s]

which Olympus is that?