Author Topic: Southend Cycle Town - part 2  (Read 237551 times)

spen666

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #250 on: 14 April, 2010, 08:12:02 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/pURsltmhJCs&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/pURsltmhJCs&rel=1</a>

I get "This video is private"?

He doesn't like you  ;D ;D ;D

Seriously seems you are too late to see it from OP's last post

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #251 on: 16 April, 2010, 01:06:35 pm »
Any news on the safety audit request?

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #252 on: 16 April, 2010, 06:40:01 pm »
Any news on the safety audit request?
Very quiet. Very quiet indeed.
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #253 on: 17 April, 2010, 01:01:35 pm »
I had a ride along the seafront to Chalkwell Ave this morning. I dont remember seeing on the plans that the cycle lane was going to go all the along the western esplanade  :-\
I presume the painted lane heading east is going to go  :-\

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #254 on: 19 April, 2010, 09:19:40 am »
Ran into TwoFlatErics and Domestique yesterday, nice meeting you! Sorry I couldn't chat longer, I was on the fast leg of my ride!

2_Flat_Erics

  • 2 Flat Eric's
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #255 on: 19 April, 2010, 06:08:25 pm »
Good to finally catch up with you Clandy. I've seen you wizz past in the opposite direction a couple of times, but too quick for me to catch you.
Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
then win on experience.

2 Flat Erics You Tube Channel

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #256 on: 20 April, 2010, 11:11:37 am »
OK, this has gone on for some time, so I thought I'd summarise the main problems and then look at resolutions.

  • Cycle path is too narrow, leading to conflict.
  • Cycle path is separated from the road by a low kerb, not high enough to prevent traffic entering but too high to allow cyclists to get back onto the path.  This leads to risk of head on collision, or cyclist falling off, if an eastbound cyclist leaves the path for any reason.
  • Carriageway is too narrow for safe cycling (it’s in the width zone that should be avoided as drivers are tempted to push past).
  • Car doors, and people loading/unloading their vehicles at the eastern end outside the Three Shells causes a great hazard to all users.

Irrespective of some views of cycle lanes/paths we have to acknowledge that this is a seafront area and so we should be encouraging all cyclists, e.g. slow moving family tourist groups, not just hardened commuters/racers.

Solutions.
1) Do nothing
Not acceptable.


2) Rectify at minimal cost

  • Make lane westbound only.  This won’t resolve the issues of car doors outside the Three Shells.
  • Reduce central parking to gain wide eastbound lane & painted cycle lane.
  • Widen westbound lane and use innovative signing.  e.g.
      - Stanley Park, Vancouver, “Faster Cyclists please use the road”.
      - Leave 5 feet when passing cyclists -> Google streetview in Hastings


3) Rectify at any cost

Option 1
  • Remove new cycle path.
  • Create wide carriageway lanes, possibly requiring loss of parking, or retaining new skewed bays (repositioned south to cater for wider eastbound carriageway).  This allows for on-carriageway cycling, but consider cycle lanes to encourage new cyclists.
  • Consider making the promenade a shared use path.  I’m not a fan of shared use, but was in Clacton recently and it works well there. Issues of car doors outside the Three Shells will be avoided as cyclists are not shepherded alongside the cars.
    Note: the current plans are for shared use under the pier and all along the “City Beach” section from the pier to The Kursaal.
    Clacton photo in spoiler.
    (click to show/hide)

Option 2.

  • Widen both carriageways to 4m / 4.5m to cater for safe cycling. 
  • Create a dedicated cycle path at least 3m wide, physically separated from the road and also the pavement.   E.g. moving from the beach, we’d have….
    -   seawall
    -   pavement
    -   buffer zone for benches/palms/rubbish bins/etc
    -   3m wide cycle path
    -   Raised kerb area – wide enough to cater for unloading cars outside the three shells.
    -   Road carriageway.
  • This option will also require a loss of some central parking in order to create sufficient space.


Your thoughts?

Wowbagger

  • Former Sylph
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #257 on: 20 April, 2010, 11:21:21 am »
I was seriously considering paying for the necessary costs in taking out an injunction and going for JR on the whole Priory Crescent scheme. Legal advice was that we had a strong case but we couldn't get a solicitor to take it on under the terms of legal aid.

The case was based on:-

Councillors going on the record stating that Priory Crescent wouldn't be touched, yet the plans proving otherwise.

Anna Waite's open letter to Shaun Qureshi of 16/4/09 which stated that any new scheme would include improved facilities for pedestrians and cyclists. These plans clearly don't: the pavement outside the Catholic Church on teh corner of PC/ Manners Way will be reduced to about 1 metre in width - from nearly 3 metres.

The indisputable fact that the Council have ridden roughshod over their own stated policy regarding the Cycle User Group.

I eventually decided that it would be too risky because any JR would cause a delay and if that delay meant that some massive contract with a civil engineer had to be cancelled, we would probably done for a 6 figure sum in costs if we had lost.

I'm not sure what can be done, Nutty. Just be aware that this council has a track record of putting the frighteners on political campaigners - not just in naming people who have never been near the place as defendants in an application for possession. To my knowledge they have form dating back to 2002 and probably further.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #258 on: 20 April, 2010, 11:33:26 am »
Solution 3 option 2 for me please.  :thumbsup: </dream>

SBC will go for solution 1.  :facepalm:

As the complaints/injuries/deaths mount they'll consider solution 2 but solution 1, after $time, will win out.
In some future election year they'll big up solution 3, start solution 2, and end at solution 1.

In some further dream of SBC Utopia no one will cycle along the seafront, because of the known dangers that cyclist have continuously pointed out, and all cycle facilities will be removed with no one cycles any more as the stated cause. A four lane dual carriageway, with car parking spaces at the sides and some in the middle, will be installed. Complaints about cyclist in the road will cause SBC to think about a cycle lane and they'll promise to listen to cyclists...

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #259 on: 20 April, 2010, 11:40:35 am »
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better?

Does anybody know any local businesses that will be attending the meeting on the 22nd?

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #260 on: 20 April, 2010, 12:12:58 pm »
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better?

Does anybody know any local businesses that will be attending the meeting on the 22nd?

Isn't the Longpier blog actually Anna Waite's blog?  ???
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #261 on: 20 April, 2010, 12:35:03 pm »
I'm not entirely clear on your list, but how about, move the on road parallel parking to the cycle lane (i.e. make the cycle lane into parking spaces). This gives you back the carriageway width and allows confident on-road cyclists to make good progress with less intereference with/from cars.
Allow cycling on the promenade as shared use - which is what everyone used to do anyway.

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #262 on: 20 April, 2010, 01:13:14 pm »
Totten said at the last meeting that reducing parking WAS NOT an option. So any option causing a loss of parking spaces will be rejected out of hand.  :(
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #263 on: 20 April, 2010, 01:48:22 pm »
The markings are down on part of the cycle path. It has made an enormous difference*:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mtSkcwX_rZA&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/mtSkcwX_rZA&rel=1</a>

Notice the cycle path is now even narrower thanks to the white line that is going to miraculously prevent cars mounting the cycle path, people opening doors into cyclists, and children wandering off the path...


(excuse the snotty nose, hell of a headwind this morning!)
   


*sarcasm.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #264 on: 20 April, 2010, 02:07:59 pm »
::-)
Getting there...

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #265 on: 20 April, 2010, 02:20:01 pm »
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better?

Does anybody know any local businesses that will be attending the meeting on the 22nd?

Isn't the Longpier blog actually Anna Waite's blog?  ???

Not certain.  I know that www seasidenews net is (dots removed in order to prevent it linking).

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #266 on: 20 April, 2010, 02:20:25 pm »
clandy - nice to see that it's still operating as predicted.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #267 on: 20 April, 2010, 02:28:39 pm »
Thanks clandy. Clarion's post is subtle and to the point.
Is there going to be a lane line to separate east/west bound riders too or just a free for all?   :facepalm:

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #268 on: 20 April, 2010, 02:37:03 pm »
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better?

Does anybody know any local businesses that will be attending the meeting on the 22nd?

Isn't the Longpier blog actually Anna Waite's blog?  ???

Not certain.  I know that www seasidenews net is (dots removed in order to prevent it linking).

Ah - that might be it.  I knew she had a local blog....
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

2_Flat_Erics

  • 2 Flat Eric's
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #269 on: 20 April, 2010, 03:21:15 pm »
Personally I would like to see a consistant approach along the whole of the seafront from Sheobury all the way through to chalkwell.

If costs were not a problem then

The current scheme should be scrapped and removed.
Remove the segregated path on eastern esplanade as well.
Widen the road by taking out parking bays and central hashed areas where approapriate.
Paint on carriage way lanes for fast or commuting cyclists.
Make promenade shared use for peds and slow/family cyclists.

If the daft schemes are removed then I think that the carrigeway can be made wide enough again to do all of this. It gives the faster confident cyclist the option of using the road in safety. Also gives the leisure/child/family cyclists a nice safe place to cycle off of the road. Even the motorists will be happier because they get wider carrigeways back.

It won't be cheep but then major infrastructure projects rarely are.
Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
then win on experience.

2 Flat Erics You Tube Channel

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #270 on: 20 April, 2010, 04:02:46 pm »
Quote
Your thoughts?

I.E. - The parking bays next to the Three Shells/cycle path

Why not move the parking bays that run alongside the cyclepath over to the central reservation?
At least then it takes away the dooring risk, and the council doesnt lose any parking bays.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #271 on: 20 April, 2010, 04:10:10 pm »
Good idea... but then traffic flows between the cars being unloaded and the pavement.  

We're already complaining that unloading onto the cycle path is a hazard for all, so if we were to move the parking to the central reservation there (which only allows a narrow carriageway remaining) we need to ensure that any design is a safe design and can allow for that parking to be relocated there and pedestrians to get out and make their way to the pavement safely.

longpier

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #272 on: 21 April, 2010, 09:51:05 am »
Hi everyone

Very first post on this excellent forum.

My name is James Harrod and I'm the editor of the Longpier website mentioned on the previous page.

I would like to take this opportunity to say that Longpier.com has no affiliation to Anna Waite, nor is it related to any political party or allegiance.

Longpier.com prides itself on being a politically impartial news, sport and features site for Southend and surrounding areas.  If you read the post about the cycle lanes, you will see I was canvassing opinion on the lanes themselves, because they have become such a taking point in Southend, regarding issues of safety.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and do continue to enjoy Longpier.com

James Harrod

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #273 on: 21 April, 2010, 09:55:33 am »
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better?


Isn't the Longpier blog actually Anna Waite's blog?  ???

Hi everyone

Very first post on this excellent forum.

My name is James Harrod and I'm the editor of the blog you mention above.

I would like to take this opportunity to say that Longpier.com has no affiliation to Anna Waite, nor is it related to any political party or allegiance.

Longpier.com prides itself on being a politically impartial news, sport and features site for Southend and surrounding areas.  If you read the post about the cycle lanes, you will see I was canvassing opinion on the lanes themselves, because they have become such a taking point in Southend, regarding issues of safety.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and do continue to enjoy Longpier.com

James Harrod
Hi James

Welcome to YACF!

Sorry for suggesting that you were Anna Waite   :-[

I was getting confused with her Seaside News blog.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

simonp

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #274 on: 22 April, 2010, 12:33:49 am »
I'm afraid you're stuck with it. We've had the cherry hinton high street mess for the best part of 20 years. Maybe more.

When complaints are made the response is "well, we wouldn't do it that way now".

However, they will not rip it out - too costly. And also they would lose face. As for doing it differently, I'm afraid that they keep making the same mistakes again and again. Particularly with "cycle lanes no matter how narrow are better than nothign" and cycle lanes next to parking bays with no hatching and so on.

They won't fix it and it'll still be there in 2030.