Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => PBP => Topic started by: markldn on 06 September, 2019, 10:25:36 am
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My thighs are still feeling sluggish out on the bike. I am waking up from bed with a stiff neck (though this could be due to a relatively new bed). But my largest concern is my left hand ulnar nerve is still not better. I massage it every day but it doesn't seem to be getting better. Right hand is back to 100%, whereas I think the right hand was the worse one at the beginning.
No other issues.
I did triple layer my handlebars (Gel, Lizard, Fizik). But I think needing to stretch the cheap Fizik so much to get round it squished the gel so much it lost its effect. Need to find a tape that is stretchy enough not to do this.
Need to find a good masseuse.
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From what I understand recovery from nerve damage will just take time, there's no therapy to speed it up.
And it can take a long time: it took four months until my little fingers were back to normal after LEL.
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Yikes, thanks Zed. I will definitely be bringing out the aero bars more often to prevent permanent damage.
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nerve damage needs regrowth which goes at the same rate as bone
depending on how much is needed this will take weeks/months
as for the how to prevent it in the first place, here is my 7 year old blog article https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/hand-numbness-and-long-distance-riding/
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In previous years I multiplied the layers on the bars, to no avail. I've come to the conclusion that it's more important to have a bike fit that reduces the pressure on the hands, and a bar profile that distributes it evenly. You may lose out a little on the aerodynamics, but a little less of a reach to a slightly higher bar can work wonders.
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Fit is important, as are flat-top bars. Gel tape is a waste of time and money. Gel pads for shoes work well in conjunction with flat-profile bars, and can be very cheap.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shield-Strip-Ideal-Sandals-Party/dp/6030026755/ref=asc_df_6030026755/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=375510925130&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12792143913543656468&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046527&hvtargid=pla-798267066681&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=77213168352&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=375510925130&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12792143913543656468&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046527&hvtargid=pla-798267066681
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Yup. The bars don't have to be all that broad - my own have a fairly large circular section but the cables are mounted fairly high on the front, so that the tape forms a gently curved top surface. Just one layer of tape, but wonderfully comfortable.
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I have mentioned it elsewhere, learn to ride by just holding the bars with one to three fingers as much as possible and when its safe and no need to cover the brakes. My usual way is to just hook my index and middle fingers over the bars and thumb and other two fingers go behind the bars. Sometimes, I have three fingers over the bars and thumb and little finger behind the bars. Its a solid grip but most importantly keeps the palm of your hand off the bar so there is no pressure on it and hence no nerve damage. PBP this year, I rode with unpadded mits, no double tapeing (I bought some to do it but was not interested enough to do it in the end) and had no issues of any description. Unlike my toes that I have no feeling in apart for the big ones, I walk about all day thinking I have big holes in the toes of my socks and always frightened I get my "tootsies" caught in the sheets in bed and rip my toes off if I jump out quick not knowing they are caught up.
It takes some getting used to but eventually it becomes habitual. Think I have been riding like this now since the 70's.
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nerve damage needs regrowth which goes at the same rate as bone
depending on how much is needed this will take weeks/months
as for the how to prevent it in the first place, here is my 7 year old blog article https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/hand-numbness-and-long-distance-riding/
> wear gloves with lots of padding
an interesting one, I was going the padded way with gloves and found my hands were getting worse, it seemed to just put the weight onto the small area with padding resulting in sorer hands.
I switched to the old skool altura classics which although they seem to have gained light padding in a redesign since I last had them, were overall considerably more comfortable.
I am using fairly thick bar tape and pads.
That said I didn't completely eliminate hand discomfort afterwards and my left pinkie is still a bit tingly. I put this down to the fact that hand only leaves the bars when signalling left and I don't move my hands around positions enough.
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Damaged nerves regrow at around 1mm/day, which means you can expect around six months for maximum recovery of ulnar nerve damage at the wrist. This may or may not be complete.
My understanding is that there is damage to the blood vessels that serve the nerves and the pressure needed to do this is not very great.
I am personally not convinced that padding is the answer. as some padding still transmits a fair deal of pressure (and almost all if it 'bottoms out' and turns into a hard lump). I think getting ALL the pressure off the hand is important to prevent both temporary and permanent damage.
(Says she who has had both but has not done PBP...)
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nerve damage needs regrowth which goes at the same rate as bone
depending on how much is needed this will take weeks/months
as for the how to prevent it in the first place, here is my 7 year old blog article https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/hand-numbness-and-long-distance-riding/
> wear gloves with lots of padding
an interesting one, I was going the padded way with gloves and found my hands were getting worse, it seemed to just put the weight onto the small area with padding resulting in sorer hands.
I switched to the old skool altura classics which although they seem to have gained light padding in a redesign since I last had them, were overall considerably more comfortable.
I am using fairly thick bar tape and pads.
That said I didn't completely eliminate hand discomfort afterwards and my left pinkie is still a bit tingly. I put this down to the fact that hand only leaves the bars when signalling left and I don't move my hands around positions enough.
I suffered with number hands / tingly fingers on my qualifiers (no aerobars) but have been mostly fine following PBP which I think was down to two main changes, I added aerobars for the variation in position (when riding alone or on the front of a group) and I swapped from normally padded gloves to a pair of specialized BG mitts which only have padding in the palm area, this seems to have smoothed out the pressure and massively helped.
I also ride with green specialised insoles which significantly reduce numb toes.
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That said I didn't completely eliminate hand discomfort afterwards and my left pinkie is still a bit tingly. I put this down to the fact that hand only leaves the bars when signalling left and I don't move my hands around positions enough.
yes, I think moving hands around is very important. It's almost "natural" to slump into 1 fixed postion on very long rides, so it's worth making a conscious effort to avoid this (a bit like forcing yourself to drink more).
I *suspect* that moving hands around helps as much as fitting aero-bars.
(I know I move around *less* when using aero-bars, but that's apples-and-oranges stuff ... )
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physically i feel almost recovered, should be back to 100% by the end of next week. fingers are still tingly though and may take few months to heal.
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physically i feel almost recovered, should be back to 100% by the end of next week. fingers are still tingly though and may take few months to heal.
Similar. My fingers are still troubling me. I tried a long ride on the TT bike last weekend and struggled. Hopefully the visit to my osteopath on Thursday will give me some mobility back in my back and neck.
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My rh little finger is just about back to full health. Open 10 mile TT today. About 20seconds off pb. Suppose to be expected.
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Shoulder is on it's way to recovery but not fully recovered yet.
I bailed out after 145km on today's 200. The pain was still tolarable but increasing.
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Fingers are fine. On the longer qualifiers I suffered numb palms and little fingers which took weeks to go. On PBP start day I lost a glove so rush purchased (grabbed) a set of Castelli Arenberg Gel 2's from the sale box in the clothing/mechanic tent, no problems at all with fingers or palms.
All toes, bar big toes, are still numb so I've followed Tims experience and purchased the specialised inner soles, give them a run out when they arrive and on the Glasgow 600.
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Might right little toe's still feeling a bit squashed the left foot got better the last couple of days,
My feet seemed to swell a couple of shoes sizes, still had a bit of trouble fitting them into my trainers when I got home
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Legs and neck fine now. Toes and hands not so good. Little and ring fingers on left hand tingly, and my right hand is actually pretty weak (my wife is a physio and she does a test on me where I have to grip a single sheet of paper in between my index and middle finger - I can barely clench my fingers together on my right, so the paper can be pulled out very easily but my left is close to normal strength and I can grip the paper well). I know from previous rides that this will take around 6 weeks to get better ::-)
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Good moniker, that. ;)
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Oh yes, I forgot, a persistent saddle sore that flares up whn I ride and just won't go.
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I think hand strength recovery is taking longer this time. I have not yet been able to cross fingers on either hand. I had a Facebook memory from 4 years ago a few days ago showing that by this date in 2015 I was able to cross fingers.
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I hurt my shoulder a couple of weeks before PBP by hitting my pedal spanner quite hard repeatedly with a hammer trying to remove a stubborn SPD pedal so I could fit SPD SL pedals. I gave up and swapped the crankset with another bike that needed SPD pedals. I ended up switching back to SPD pedals for PBP as a bearing went on one of my new SPD SL pedals halfway through my last DIY 200km before PBP. My shoulder largely recovered before PBP but started playing up towards the end and is still not quite right now.
I didn’t have any trouble with my feet during the PBP with no hot foot despite wearing neoprene overshoes for the whole ride. My hands and fingers were also fine because I avoid putting pressure on the ulna nerve and rest the more padded part of the hand either side of it on the handlebars instead. I also changed hand positions regularly and had PBP legal aerobars fitted, although I couldn’t stay on them for long at a time. I put the long aerobars back on for a DIY 200km yesterday and could stay on them almost all the time.
I ride an old Specialized Roubaix so have to use 23mm tyres if I have mudguards fitted and I pump them up to 100psi to avoid pinch flats. Like many other riders I used GP5000 tyres and found them the best and most comfortable tyres I’ve ever used. The carbon frame, forks and seat post all have Zertz inserts that take some road shock out and I also have gel strips under a single layer of cork handlebar tape to add to the comfort. As long as you don’t hold your handlebars in a death grip that flattens the gel, it acts as a shock absorber and saves your hands from damage. I also wore gel palmed mitts throughout and wore neoprene gloves over them at night.
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physically i feel almost recovered, should be back to 100% by the end of next week. fingers are still tingly though and may take few months to heal.
Similar. My fingers are still troubling me. I tried a long ride on the TT bike last weekend and struggled. Hopefully the visit to my osteopath on Thursday will give me some mobility back in my back and neck.
Didn't help much. Riding a 12hr TT yesterday helped even less.
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I'm wondering will my recovery take longer if I carry on cycling to work.
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That said I didn't completely eliminate hand discomfort afterwards and my left pinkie is still a bit tingly. I put this down to the fact that hand only leaves the bars when signalling left and I don't move my hands around positions enough.
yes, I think moving hands around is very important. It's almost "natural" to slump into 1 fixed postion on very long rides, so it's worth making a conscious effort to avoid this (a bit like forcing yourself to drink more).
I *suspect* that moving hands around helps as much as fitting aero-bars.
(I know I move around *less* when using aero-bars, but that's apples-and-oranges stuff ... )
In PVP 2011 I had awfully numb hands.
I started Pilates then moved to yoga.
Initially I wanted a stronger 'core' as I thought that might help.. however yoga has helped me relax on the bike and maintain good form even when I'm tired.
But moving the hands is the key I think.
I use a traditional shaped handle bar
I have two 'on the hoods' hand positions one further back and the area next to the stem free from lights etc
I make a conscious effort to circulate these positions.
The long drop also gives me more hand positions than on my short drop handle bar .
Controversially I have stopped wearing gloves . If I feel pressure, it's my hand telling me to move.
I hope everyone recovers..in 2011 my hands were ok by December for numbness but took a little longer for a strong grip to return.
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physically i feel almost recovered, should be back to 100% by the end of next week. fingers are still tingly though and may take few months to heal.
Similar. My fingers are still troubling me. I tried a long ride on the TT bike last weekend and struggled. Hopefully the visit to my osteopath on Thursday will give me some mobility back in my back and neck.
Didn't help much. Riding a 12hr TT yesterday helped even less.
Great that makes me feel reasonable ;)
Was feeling guilty for turning left on the relaxed group ride onto the longer loop. Uphill a dutch lady kicked and all hell broke loose. They did have a surprise 8km TT got my as wipped by 2 min but only just missed the podium.
Felt guilty for overdoing it but comparing to a 12H TT I now hve an excuse to enter this weekends race instead of having to take it slow to make my sore knee recover better.
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It's the first time that I have ever lost the feeling in all my toes, usually its the area around the balls of my feet, but apart from having the sensation that I have massive holes in my socks, I found out yesterday how dodgy it is, I tried to cut my toenails, I did not know if I was cutting my nails or cutting my toes off as well at the same time so I gave up after just a little trim just to be safe. Looks like I will have to try filing them down.
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I notice a couple of the Australian PBP riders (Peter Heal, David Riddel) and others are doing a recovery ride this weekend, another 1200! Peter, on a CruzBike recumbent, seems to have just finished the first 360km in just over 12 hours, so he looks to have recovered, it is very flat
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346-audax-australia-mallee-routes (a 4 day weekend of rides, Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues rides from 50 to 300 and 400, 600, 1000 & 1200 starting Saturday)
https://spotwalla.com/locationViewer.php?id=212