What's the problem with Microwave Ovens?

[artyfaharty]

Or to put it another way, we have a rather inefficient oil powered Rayburn that we use to do our cooking on, heat our hot water and provide some central heating on in the winter, these last two are mostl a by product of the cooking activities. Over the last few years as the price of oil has shot up I've used the wood stove more and more for heating so that just leaves cooking. In the mornings we fire the Rayburn up for about 20 minutes to make porridge, toast, heat milk for coffee etc. God knows what it costs each time. All I know is that our average weekly oil consumption is about £30. It has to run for about ten minutes just to get the top plate hot enough. To make flapjack (this happens almost daily ) takes about 30 minutes of oil burning.

Everytime I do this I think why don't we use a Microwave oven but Mrs AF is pathologically opposed to them on the grounds that they irradiate you!!!!

We could do the porridge, heat up the milk and make flapjack in a microwave I presume? Then just get a toaster to make the kids toast.

Any thoughts appreciated.

[border-rider]

Everytime I do this I think why don't we use a Microwave oven but Mrs AF is pathologically opposed to them on the grounds that they irradiate you!!!!

Does she use a mobile phone ?

You get more exposure from a mobile than from a microwave (assuming normal use etc etc etc) . In both cases though, what you're exposed to are radio waves. Ok, it's a type of radiation but only in the same way that heat or light or Radio 4 is.  Quite different from the nuclear kind in its effects, and most importantly it doesn't persist - ie when you switch off the oven the microwaves vanish and they don't change the nature of the food (apart from making it hot of course)

[Seineseeker]

It cuts the wifi signal in the kitchen I know that!

[border-rider]

It cuts the wifi signal in the kitchen I know that!

Does it ? Maybe try changing channels on the router.  But I guess that if you have a laptop very near the microwave and a weak router signal then the signal from the microwave might be strong enough to swamp the wifi.

It's not a problem we've had. We have a 2.45 GHz wireless doorbell too.

[andygates]

I don't have that problem, and the PC's in the kitchen.  Methinks the shielding's gone.

When the shielding isn't gone, they don't irradiate you.  But they're also not big fuzzy lovely lumps of warm iron in the kitchen...

[donpedro]

Mal is right, as always. Those radio waves are tuned to cause friction in water molecules if memory serves me right.
What your wife and all of us ought to be really worried about is background radiation paired with Radon gas emitted from building materials etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon 

Why does it have to be flapjacks?
I rely on the microwave for my oats and it's done to perfection before my teeth are!
With a water kettle for my green tea, yes I'm healthy in that way, and waiting with my espresso until I'm at work save me some of money and lower my CO2-footprint!

[border-rider]

I don't have that problem, and the PC's in the kitchen.  Methinks the shielding's gone.

"Gone" - not really, cos the metal box around the cavity and the metalised /mesh glass are the primary shielding.  The leaky place is the door seal.  These are engineered to be 1/4 wave attenuators - their physical dimensions act as a filter - but if you bend the door or allow foody stuff to accumulate around the seals so the door doesn't shut snug  then they can leak a bit more.    But it's still pretty low-level stuff.

One of my former colleagues once defeated the interlocks and ran one with the door off.  He got his hand into the plane of the door before it became unpleasantly hot

We also put a screwdriver to the door of one to bend it so it leaked.  It took some doing.

[rae]

MICROWAVES ARE BRANE CONTROL DEVICES SENT TO US BY ALIENS.  YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!   ALL WAVES WILL KILL YOU.   

er, sorry, wrong forum.

Wot Mal said.

People are frightened of these things because they are "magic" - it is blindingly obvious how a gas flame heats up water but the microwave has no obvious means of heating the food.  People used to think that moving faster than 15mph would kill you.

[border-rider]

The tinfoil hat song

 

[gonzo]

The reason not to use a microwave is that it dries out your food, plus, it heats from the inside thus renders many recipies void.

As an aside;
They sold irradiation devices similar to microwaves briefly, but because they sold them as irradiation devices they never took off as they were scary things. The idea was that you could kill the bugs on just about anything.

[border-rider]

it heats from the inside

No it doesn't   It heats very much from the outside but it penetrates better than infrared so you get heating within a couple of cm of the surface rather than just at the surface.  Surface heating is still the strongest, and the fall-off with depth is exponential.

What do they teach at uni these days ?

But yeah, it won't give you crispy crackling.

They sold irradiation devices similar to microwaves briefly, but because they sold them as irradiation devices they never took off as they were scary things. The idea was that you could kill the bugs on just about anything.

The only way to kill anything with microwaves is to cook it, so it would be kind of a destructive technique unless the material with the bugs was pretty inert, and would need a load of power.   Just a microwave oven with no shielding.  We looked a few years ago at using microwaves to sterilise soil and it doubtless can be done.  Not something that would be usable by the general public though

[Sergeant Pluck]

That's the bit I don't get. If they heat from the surface inwards, why don't things go brown?

[border-rider]

Cos the surface doesn't get that hot.  In a conventional oven, the air temperature is about 200 C and there's a load of infra red hitting the surface and being absorbed in basically no depth.  The surface gets really hot and the rest of the food heats by conduction from the surface

In a microwave, the air temperature is much, much less (the microwaves of course don't heat air) so the surface is losing heat to the air.  Plus the heating is more spread though the surface layers so the whole food gets hot without the surface reaching such a high temperature - though the surface (usually*) is the hottest part

The  reason you get cold spots in the middle of food is that the microwave cooks them so fast that the heat doesn't have time to even out.

*not in some special cases like jam inside frozen icecream, or stuff in a meringue shell, or anything where the surface doesn't absorb microwaves very well.

[hellymedic]

I make porridge in the microwave two or three times per week.
I've not made flapjacks, but I've done cakes (best trick was to buy cake mix from cheapie shop and make a cake during coffee break at work)
Microwaves are quick, cheap to run and save on washing up.
Microwaved carrots (peel, slice and put into lidded Pyrex casserole. Zap 4 minutes on full for carrots for 2) taste much better than boiled.

[rogerzilla]

The reason not to use a microwave is that the food tastes like excrement 

[artyfaharty]

Thanks all, I'm at least better informed from a scientific point of view, if not convinced on the culinary front!

[border-rider]

The reason not to use a microwave is that the food tastes like excrement 

Oh I dunno

As Hellymedic said, some things are better in microwaves.  Carrots are one, but courgettes (slice thin, put on a tiny bit of olive oil and zap for a minute or two) and frozen peas (need only a teaspoon of added water) taste better. As do fresh peas and beans.  Porridge is just easier

The big benefit with vegetables is that you don't boil them in gallons of water so more of the  flavour stays.

Other stuff, though, is a bit grim when microwaved.

[hellymedic]

The reason not to use a microwave is that the food tastes like excrement 

I wouldn't know as I'm not in the habit of eating excrement.

Some foods are fine in the microwave, mostly those that would be boiled.

I make custard in the microwave, which is fine.

I cook salmon in it. The results aren't Cordon Bleu but are palatable and food is ready fast, which is useful.

[hellymedic]

The reason not to use a microwave is that the food tastes like excrement 

Oh I dunno

As Hellymedic said, some things are better in microwaves.  Carrots are one, but courgettes (slice thin, put on a tiny bit of olive oil and zap for a minute or two) and frozen peas (need only a teaspoon of added water) taste better. As do fresh peas and beans.  Porridge is just easier

The big benefit with vegetables is that you don't boil them in gallons of water so more of the  flavour stays.

I imagine less vitamin C is lost in microwave cooking than in boiling.

[steveB]

My late father-in-law wouldn't eat microwaved food because he was uncertain of the effect the "rays" would have on his health.

His health fears didn't stop him drinking as much scotch as he could get away with (including the ones hidden in his room) and smoking twenty fags a day.

[andygates]

My late father-in-law wouldn't eat microwaved food because he was uncertain of the effect the "rays" would have on his health.

His health fears didn't stop him drinking as much scotch as he could get away with (including the ones hidden in his room) and smoking twenty fags a day.

Your father-in-law was a superstitious peasant.  Most people are.

[Mike J]

We used to use or microwave to heat up soup/defrost bread/heat up milk and the occasional bit of cooking - gave up with it as it was either warm or luke warm but not that hot.

Don't have one anymore as didn't use it for 6 months.

[Adam]

If Mrs Artyfaharty is concerned about microwave radiation, simply get a detector to dispel her fears.  Then start with something simple like boiling water (Delia might have some helpful hints), to show how wonderful the microwave is, and then she'll never look back. 

[border-rider]

If Mrs Artyfaharty is concerned about microwave radiation, simply get a detector to dispel her fears.

I'd really not recommend that

That "detector" will be good for one thing - not telling you what's going on.  God only knows what it responds to, and any instrument that you hold in your hand by definition can't give you a sensible reading.  They're actually worse than useless.  In fact that one only just covers the domestic microwave oven frequency, and will respond (or so it is claimed) to RF down to frequencies almost 1000 times lower.

I have about my person a proper RF safety monitor.  They cost about £3,000 not £4.99.  There's a very good reason for that...

[Adam]

I did think £4.99 seemed a bit of a bargain......

If Mrs Artyfaharty is concerned about microwave radiation, simply get a detector to dispel her fears.

I'd really not recommend that

That "detector" will be good for one thing - not telling you what's going on.  God only knows what it responds to, and any instrument that you hold in your hand by definition can't give you a sensible reading.  They're actually worse than useless.  In fact that one only just covers the domestic microwave oven frequency, and will respond (or so it is claimed) to RF down to frequencies almost 1000 times lower.

I have about my person a proper RF safety monitor.  They cost about £3,000 not £4.99.  There's a very good reason for that...

Even better - hire yourself out to the Artyfaharty household straight away - microwave detector man.