Curriculum Vitae

[Canardly]

Richard 2nd? 

[Ham]

I agree with much of the advice above, adding my few ha'porth

- You need to differentiate yourself, provide the selector with some reason to chose you out of the pile
- Covering letters can be vital. Want to differentiate yourself? Handwrite on the very best paper  - that will get you noticed
- Don't be afraid to be enthusiastic
- Use white space in your layout, don't try to squeeze too much in
- I've become a convert to the idea of a brief personal statement, tailored for the job, at the top of CV, eg "An enthusiastic, experienced old fart looking for challenge modelling ladies underwear" attracts the eye
- Likewise, don't be afraid to break with convention, if you have a story to tell, bring it up front with some clear bullet points with a section like "Career Highlights - Rescued Princesses - Kissed 1,000 frogs in one day" whatever, hopefully relevant to the job. If you interest the viewer, they will look for the bits they need. If you differentiate yourself you might at least make it to the maybe pile.

[citoyen]

• Get the important stuff on page one

Get everything on page one. You need a damn good reason for there to be a page two.

• Send PDFs, not native files.

Totes agree with this.

• A section on who you are outside work is hugely, massively important.

Maybe, but only if it can be used to demonstrate some desirable personal quality - eg being a committee member of a local organisation, with specific detail of what you have achieved in that capacity that might reveal transferrable skills relevant to the role you're applying for. Otherwise it's wasting everyone's time.

[citoyen]

Want to differentiate yourself? Handwrite on the very best paper  - that will get you noticed

Do you think so? That would smack of trying too hard to me, and probably over-compensating for deficiencies elsewhere.

[barakta]

I think it depends on the field. In my field I'd worry I'd got a luddite who couldn't use a computer if they wrote a handwritten letter.

In my mum's field I think personal statements HAD to be handwritten which I'd argue was discriminatory as I don't (can't reliably/neatly) handwrite for disability reasons and it's so petty and I think old fashioned to be snobby about handwriting. 

[ian]

Hmm, I'm not convinced with the personal interests section. It's usually the anodyne triumvirate of 'reading, cinema, travel' which is a bit like saying you like breathing, shitting, and perspiring. Which is fine, most people aren't very interesting, but it doesn't tell me anything. Worst are the ones that lie or try. You know, they spent six weeks on an extended holiday in Phuket which becomes a deep interest in 'Thai culture'. Or they've accumulated Acton's biggest collection of tea cosies and need to tell me about it.

OK, for the latter, I would interview you. Also, people, stop bloody listing every software application you've seen.

Considering the panoply of morons I've experienced in the workplace, I'm not sure recruiting actually works. I know I've hired people because I just couldn't bear another round of interviews and 'they'll do'. They rarely do do. In fact do-do is all they do. That's probably why I'm aboard the mothership.

(actually, I never interviewed for them, I was part of a annexed US start-up, and the owner gave me that job.)

[citoyen]

I'm too busy giving 110% to my job to have outside interests.

[contango]

Hmm, I'm not convinced with the personal interests section. It's usually the anodyne triumvirate of 'reading, cinema, travel' which is a bit like saying you like breathing, shitting, and perspiring. Which is fine, most people aren't very interesting, but it doesn't tell me anything. Worst are the ones that lie or try. You know, they spent six weeks on an extended holiday in Phuket which becomes a deep interest in 'Thai culture'. Or they've accumulated Acton's biggest collection of tea cosies and need to tell me about it.

OK, for the latter, I would interview you. Also, people, stop bloody listing every software application you've seen.

Considering the panoply of morons I've experienced in the workplace, I'm not sure recruiting actually works. I know I've hired people because I just couldn't bear another round of interviews and 'they'll do'. They rarely do do. In fact do-do is all they do. That's probably why I'm aboard the mothership.

(actually, I never interviewed for them, I was part of a annexed US start-up, and the owner gave me that job.)

I'd agree if your personal interests are going to be the horribly cliched "snowboarding, cinema, curling up with a good book" (which sounds more like a dating site profile than a CV anyway). I remember when I listed herpetology as a personal interest. I noticed a few times when I was interviewed the person had marked it, and asked me what it was. From there came questions on whether I kept snakes and lizard (at the time I had a snake) and as far as I could tell it was the sort of thing that made me more memorable as a candidate.

It's always hard to know whether that sort of thing helps but if there are a few candidates for a job and it's a close decision you might as well have something to show you're not just a corporate drone. I guess it could backfire in that someone might have thought I was a bit too oddball for their office, but then if I was too oddball the chances are I wouldn't be happy there anyway.

[tiermat]

I would definitely go with the personal interests bit, IF you have an interesting thing to say (pretty much what contago says).

A little illustration:

I was, once, in charge of an IT department.  Part of my role was the hiring of staff.  the company bought another company, and needed an IT support person on site.  I obtained a raft of CVs from an agency, 60%+ of which went straight in the circular filing cabinet.

One that stood out for me, though, bearing in mind this person would be doing 1st line, walk up support, was a guy who had started out as a motorbike mechanic, progressed onto owning his own shop then re-trained in IT when the shop went under.  All of that was well and good, but then I got to his interests and hobbies. He only had one, Competitive Ballroom Dancing.  He went straight to the top of my "to interview" list as I figured (rightly as it turned out) that, if he was ok with dressing up in sequins and dancing before a large group of people he doesn't know, he would have no problem providing deskside support.

[Ham]

Want to differentiate yourself? Handwrite on the very best paper  - that will get you noticed

Do you think so? That would smack of trying too hard to me, and probably over-compensating for deficiencies elsewhere.

Yes, I do, with certain caveats.

Your writing must be up to it. If you have OK writing and presentation, that makes a good impression. Good writing gets you noticed, and good paper sends a message that you are keen and you care. The CV must stand up to scrutiny, clearly, but step one is to get into the maybe pile after that you stand or fall by whatever else is in that pile.

It's been many years, but at one time I was (among a myriad of other roles) responsible for recruitment at a TV channel; as you might imagine any job we advertised attracted a huge volume of CV, that first cull can be harsh. Good cover letter, handwriting and presentation may be a personal foible to some extent but I still see piles of CV through Mrs Ham's recruitment processes. When you get a good letter it shines and you want their CV to make it through.

FWIW, when Miss Ham really wanted a particular job with Girlguiding, we spent some time doing her CV, but the covering letter was a game we made up, in a box, with chocolate as a prize using clues and their answers to bring out aspects of her CV. It got her an interview but as in all honesty she was big on enthusiasm but short on experience the job went to someone else, however they were impressed enough to offer her an alternative job, but it wasn't one she wanted.

Personal interests can be useful, but are not critical and need to be tailored. Oh, and don't put "Music" or "going out" but "Playing in a band" or "Munroe bagging"  would be worth adding.

[mrcharly-YHT]

When I was self-employed, I had letter-headed paper printed on a buff yellow.
People sometimes made sniggering comments about it, but when I rang up to chase a contact, they were always able to find my letter + proposal in the stack of uniform white.

[ian]

Probably showing my own biases, but the thing that speaks to me is a nicely laid-out CV. You CV is an advert for you. I see so many that are awful. Teeny fonts, no margins, the dense forest of useless information. For god's sake, give those facts space to breath. White space, margins. And if you've formatted it solely using the tab key, I'll know, and I'm going to come around your house and put a shark in your bathtub.

Same for covering letters. A simple three paragraph affair – introduce yourself, tell me why the job is for you and what's in it for me (and don't merely regurgitate the CV), and a final thanks for your consideration. Lean, concise, clear. I need to be convinced by a summary glance to read more.

Only then do I learn that you're an 'enthusiastic team player' et blah.

[citoyen]

I suppose what these various responses show is that there are as many right ways to present your CV as there are potential employers.

Unlike Ham, a handwritten letter or other gimmicky presentation would instantly turn me against a candidate. I like to think I would still give them a chance by judging them on the actual content of the letter and CV but my initial thought would be to suspect obfuscation.

And mentioning your interest in herpetology or ballroom dancing might make you stand out for me, but not necessarily in a good way.

But like ian, I'm a sucker for a well-formatted layout. This could be because of the nature of what I do - care in laying out your CV reveals exactly the kind of attention to detail I would be looking for in your work. If I were looking to employ a designer, a gimmicky presentation might be more appropriate.

On the whole, my main guiding principle when applying for a job is to keep the information as simple and concise as possible. Given the number of CVs employers have to wade through, you're bound to increase your chances of being taken seriously if they don't have to wade through a sea of bullshit to find the pertinent information.

[Ham]

Probably showing my own biases, but the thing that speaks to me is a nicely laid-out CV. You CV is an advert for you. I see so many that are awful. Teeny fonts, no margins, the dense forest of useless information. For god's sake, give those facts space to breath. White space, margins. And if you've formatted it solely using the tab key, I'll know, and I'm going to come around your house and put a shark in your bathtub.

Same for covering letters. A simple three paragraph affair – introduce yourself, tell me why the job is for you and what's in it for me (and don't merely regurgitate the CV), and a final thanks for your consideration. Lean, concise, clear. I need to be convinced by a summary glance to read more.

Only then do I learn that you're an 'enthusiastic team player' et blah.

And don't make basic spelling errors 

This is actually the consistent message coming from everyone, with minor tweaks from individual view.

Oh, and I've seen covering letters in Comic Sans. Srsly.

[tiermat]

Probably showing my own biases, but the thing that speaks to me is a nicely laid-out CV. You CV is an advert for you. I see so many that are awful. Teeny fonts, no margins, the dense forest of useless information. For god's sake, give those facts space to breath. White space, margins. And if you've formatted it solely using the tab key, I'll know, and I'm going to come around your house and put a shark in your bathtub.

Same for covering letters. A simple three paragraph affair – introduce yourself, tell me why the job is for you and what's in it for me (and don't merely regurgitate the CV), and a final thanks for your consideration. Lean, concise, clear. I need to be convinced by a summary glance to read more.

Only then do I learn that you're an 'enthusiastic team player' et blah.

And don't make basic spelling errors 

This is actually the consistent message coming from everyone, with minor tweaks from individual view.

Oh, and I've seen covering letters in Comic Sans. Srsly.

I remember seeing an article, on t'web, written by a HR bod that showed some of the major errors in CVs and cover letters they had come across over the years.

The REALLY outstanding one, though, was the cover letter and CV written in green ink on PURPLE paper!

[Ham]

Unlike Ham, a handwritten letter or other gimmicky presentation would instantly turn me against a candidate. I like to think I would still give them a chance by judging them on the actual content of the letter and CV but my initial thought would be to suspect obfuscation.

We aren't unlike, it has to be relevant. The example I gave with my daughter was for a role working in one of the areas the government has been chucking cash into post riots to engage disaffected kids. If you had a short handwritten letter alongside a relevant and well presented CV on good quality paper, I'm actually certain you would be positively inclined to it. How many like that do you ever get?

[citoyen]

If you had a short handwritten letter alongside a relevant and well presented CV on good quality paper, I'm actually certain you would be positively inclined to it. How many like that do you ever get?

A few. And in my experience, the content hasn't ever matched the presentation. But I suppose that's a fault of the individuals rather than the method.

Anyway, I haven't sent a job application by snail mail for years. Tbh, if I did, I'd expect the job to have been filled by the time it was read.

[ian]

Anyway, I haven't sent a job application by snail mail for years. Tbh, if I did, I'd expect the job to have been filled by the time it was read.

Reminds me, I applied a job a while back. I didn't really want the job, but someone insisted I should apply so we could talk about it. So I spent a morning filling in some tortuous form that seemed to require a c1994 era browser and iterative frames. I soldiered on to the end and hit submit.

Move forward a few months, talking to the person who wanted me to apply: "oh, I'm disappointed you didn't apply."

[contango]

I suppose what these various responses show is that there are as many right ways to present your CV as there are potential employers.

Unlike Ham, a handwritten letter or other gimmicky presentation would instantly turn me against a candidate. I like to think I would still give them a chance by judging them on the actual content of the letter and CV but my initial thought would be to suspect obfuscation.

And mentioning your interest in herpetology or ballroom dancing might make you stand out for me, but not necessarily in a good way.

But like ian, I'm a sucker for a well-formatted layout. This could be because of the nature of what I do - care in laying out your CV reveals exactly the kind of attention to detail I would be looking for in your work. If I were looking to employ a designer, a gimmicky presentation might be more appropriate.

I guess a lot depends on the context.

If you were hiring someone to be a calligrapher you'd probably favour a neatly hand-written application. If you were hiring someone for a technical role it would probably be the fastest imaginable route to the round filing cabinet in the corner.

I reckon things like herpetology and ballroom dancing are things that might give you the edge over another candidate if other things are much the same. I wouldn't expect "I have a pet boa constrictor" to outweigh "my technical skills are useless" and "I'm an arrogant a-hole", it's just one of those "interesting facts about me" that shows I'm more than just a collection of purely business related skills. As you say, some people might regard it as a negative, when trying to present yourself in an interesting light you run the risk that someone will regard your "interesting fact" as being boring.

On the whole, my main guiding principle when applying for a job is to keep the information as simple and concise as possible. Given the number of CVs employers have to wade through, you're bound to increase your chances of being taken seriously if they don't have to wade through a sea of bullshit to find the pertinent information.

I won't dispute that, put the important stuff first and if the employer is still reading by the end of the page then by all means mention (briefly) the other stuff they might find interesting about you. If they find it interesting they can ask about it in the interview, and if they don't then you're not boring them with half a page of detail about your vivarium or telescopes or whatever.

[David Martin]

Our institute has some CV negating system that exists purely to fill the coffers of the company who sold it to us. For a while it would manage to take a perfectly readable CV and render it unprintable, bad margins etc. They must have had some weird printer that was the only one the tech wrote custom postscript for.

Anyhow, this is a useful thing for us - we get standardised CVs with all the info in the right place. Not to many, only 40 or so for a post which we can the discard about 37 of as unqualified. Of the remainder there will be one outstanding candidate who will have found another job by the time the closing date comes around and we can start interviewing, and the others will be a bit flaky.

C'est la vie.

[citoyen]

I reckon things like herpetology and ballroom dancing are things that might give you the edge over another candidate if other things are much the same.

Because they're more valid ways to use your free time than watching TV or going to the pub?

I dunno. I don't judge whether someone is going to be good at their job by what hobbies they have.

As you say, some people might regard it as a negative, when trying to present yourself in an interesting light you run the risk that someone will regard your "interesting fact" as being boring.

Not boring, just irrelevant. It's padding.

I applied for a job on a cycling mag a while back and so gave details of my cycling interests in the covering letter. Kept it very brief, just a couple of sentences to say "this is what I do" to demonstrate that I had a genuine knowledge and interest in the subject. But I wouldn't normally mention it otherwise.

I didn't get the job but it was down to me and one other candidate and I strongly suspect the other chap got it because he was cheaper.

Anyway, all that is just my personal approach. As others have said, they consider personal interests a vitally important part of the CV. I don't think either view is right or wrong per se.

[Ham]

I think what it comes down to is the judge of the CV may or may not be interested in outside interests, so one line, precious though it is in the scheme of a single page layout, is probably not a bad investment for the topic, try to make it count.

My personal treatment is about four words, attempting to demonstrate balanced interests, I doubt whether it would ever make a difference in selection but occasionally results in finding common interest with the interviewer. So don't just make it up.

[citoyen]

I sent my CV to someone today, speculatively touting my services. She responded promptly, commenting: "I do like to see a CV on one sheet!"

Long story short, I now have work lined up for next week that I didn't have when I woke up this morning. Which is nice.

[David Martin]

It is very much area specific. I have to prepare a two page summary due to ongoing issues.

[citoyen]

It is very much area specific.

True that. I can imagine that in your line of work it's possible to justify several pages of CV. But too often I see CVs that run to two pages out of mere prolixity.