Author Topic: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)  (Read 4283 times)

Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« on: 24 February, 2017, 09:25:35 am »
Off for a bike tour of Sicily soon where I read that dogs can be a problem, does anyone have any good tips on dealing with them? I'm considering a squeezy bottle filled with some locally obtainable irritant, any suggestions?

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #1 on: 24 February, 2017, 09:31:04 am »
grappa?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #2 on: 24 February, 2017, 10:49:08 am »
More like Marsala or, more up to date, Nero d'Avola.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #3 on: 24 February, 2017, 01:10:06 pm »
Reason with them?


Seriously tho', I try to ignore chasing dogs and not look at them.  Keep the legs moving and don't let them get in front of you.  Have only been bitten once when a French hunting dog took me by surprise and got in front*.  I had to slow right down and it then nipped my hand (while I was still holding the bars).  I got off and it ran away fortunately.   I wouldn't recommend stopping since I guess if it works the dog isn't inherently vicious anyway.

* as a good hunting dog would.
Move Faster and Bake Things

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #4 on: 24 February, 2017, 01:17:37 pm »

rr

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #5 on: 24 February, 2017, 01:42:44 pm »
Didn't Richard Balentine give advice on this?

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #6 on: 24 February, 2017, 03:03:28 pm »
As a Sicilian Dog, I am very offended by this  >:(
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
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Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #7 on: 24 February, 2017, 03:07:37 pm »
As a Sicilian Dog, I am very offended by this  >:(
You would object to being offered grappa?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #8 on: 24 February, 2017, 03:09:24 pm »
I wouldn't recommend stopping since I guess if it works the dog isn't inherently vicious anyway.

Not sure I agree. Trying to outrun a dog frequently causes the dog to see you as prey, and chase you that much faster. Trying to outrun a dog on a loaded touring bike is not especially easy, either. I've had good results by stopping, dismounting, putting the bike between me and the dog, and acting like an irate dog owner. Shouting "No!" and pointing back the way the dog came from can be surprisingly effective. Dismounting tells the dog that you are a human, not a prey animal, and the irate dog owner act confuses them enough that they just give up and go home.

The only time this almost didn't work was in Sicily. I was off the bike, shouting at a farm dog that had come after me when its mates joined in. Two of them were starting to circle around behind me when the farmer showed up and chased the dogs back into the farmyard.

Dogs around here are remarkably well behaved, but if I ever start having trouble I might try the squirt gun filled with dilute ammonia trick.

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
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Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #9 on: 24 February, 2017, 03:25:37 pm »
Dog Dazers work.
Nope, not in South America - some didn't react, others went mental into a barking fit, none ran away when buzzing.

Best thing is to keep peddling, get out of their territory and they will stop chasing. If they get in font of you or sneak up on you while stopped when snacking etc. Get off bike and talk to them, often they don't know what the heck you are on. If that doesn't work stones, sticks or handful of snacky stuff thrown at them and then leg it :) Try to keep bike between you and them, yes I know that goes against what I just said, but it all depends on the situation.

We had a few chases, but one had one get close enough to nip Peli, most damage on her helmet which where hanging of her pannier at the time. I think I remember, it got hold of her shoe first, then kicked by her and then it went for the helmet. I was in front and we both sped up when dogs came running at us. Noticed one was a bit keener than Peli and it caught her up. I dropped bike, picked up stones (one good thing about riding on Ripo aka gravel roads day in day out) and ran at it while going aaarrrgggghhh'ing. When it figured out that I meant business, it turned around before I got to throw stones, didn't wanted to hit Peli :) so waited until I got close enough, but then it scampered.

I'm a dog lover, but if one attacks me or a loved one, I play dirty! Grabbing and pulling them off/away is a no go, the business end is still free to bite and when you let go they will come at you. You need to hurt them to get them to figure out that it might not be a good idea to continue.

So Kick it, Kick it hard right into next week! If close enough - thumbs deep and hard into its eyes. It will get bloody. If you can go for the throat, rip that wind pipe out, though this is hard as they often have big neck muscles. If you have time to check if it is not neutered, grab them by the dangling bits.
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #10 on: 24 February, 2017, 11:31:15 pm »
Dog Dazers work.
Nope, not in South America - some didn't react, others went mental into a barking fit, none ran away when buzzing.


Fairy nuff.  I tried mine out on a few in Bulgaria and they visibly recoiled, but none of the Bulgarian dogs I met were massively vicious anyway - certainly they were more laid back than the Romanians I'd tackled dazer-less a couple of years earlier.

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #11 on: 25 February, 2017, 11:55:05 am »
.......
...........
So Kick it, Kick it hard right into next week! If close enough - thumbs deep and hard into its eyes. It will get bloody. If you can go for the throat, rip that wind pipe out, though this is hard as they often have big neck muscles. If you have time to check if it is not neutered, grab them by the dangling bits.
You are Richard Ballantine AICMFP  ;D

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #12 on: 25 February, 2017, 12:24:38 pm »
.. they were more laid back than the Romanians I'd tackled dazer-less a couple of years earlier.

I guess a dazer wouldn't work against Romanians anyway.
Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #13 on: 25 February, 2017, 02:09:24 pm »
(Sorry, looks like I wrote more than planned. Short version: Be a confident human and the vast majority of dogs won't hurt you.)

Had to deal with dogs while cycling too many times in many places (Spain, Italy, Egypt, E. Africa, western USA), and used to be married to a dog trainer. So here's my amateur working theory, for what it's worth...

I believe dogs (like people) that mean you serious harm are very rare. Doesn't mean they won't try to hurt you, just that they're not trying to kill you. For most dogs a human on a bike is sport. There's also a territorial component, but that's not why they chase people on bikes. A person on a bike, to a dog, is about the size of and moves at the speed of the kind of game it might have evolved or been bred to chase in the wild - a deer, say. Most dogs have a deeply conditioned urge to chase game, especially in packs. What most dogs don't do (unless trained to) is attack people. They know that's trouble.

So the best thing to do when chased by threatening dogs is to stop and get off the bike (but keep the bike between you and them if possible). All of a sudden, to a dog, you've then become a human, not game. Even better, appear as big and threatening and noisy as possible and look like you're about to attack them. The vast majority of the time that's enough to make them understand you're trouble and they'll back off. If they still hang around, walk away, keeping them in sight, until they lose interest, which will be at the edge of their territory, which is not usually all that large, especially if there's neighbours.

Many suggest that dogs are protecting their territory, because they appear to stop chasing abruptly at some seemingly arbitrary boundary. It might be a factor, but I think they stop there not because you've left their territory, but because they've reached the edge. Beyond there the dog feels less safe and the game is no longer fun. Most domestic dogs of the kind that might come running out at you from the yard of a house are just very bored.

Learning a little doggy body language is helpful. In most cases, as soon as a dog realises you're a confidently behaving human, they'll switch from chase to submissive behaviour. The tail will lift, they'll be trying to sniff or lick, and get close for some petting. If a dog stops when you stop, keeps a distance, stays still, tense and staring, tail down, then it's sizing up whether you're worth the fight. Again, be big and confident, walk away, but cautiously. In the worst case, be prepared to do some damage. It's a very rare dog (likely trained) that will keep coming at you after a well-placed bash (go for the nose) from a frame pump.

In all cases trying to outrun is only for when you're sure they're just playing and you want the workout. You'll never outrun anything but the smallest dog that really means business and on the bike you can't defend or attack. Audible and spray devices aren't all that useful because you can never be sure if they're going to work (they often don't, in my experience).



T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #14 on: 25 February, 2017, 04:45:38 pm »
Dog Dazers work.
Nope, not in South America - some didn't react, others went mental into a barking fit, none ran away when buzzing.


Fairy nuff.  I tried mine out on a few in Bulgaria and they visibly recoiled, but none of the Bulgarian dogs I met were massively vicious anyway - certainly they were more laid back than the Romanians I'd tackled dazer-less a couple of years earlier.

A dog whistle would probably have a similar effect. Or, if you don't mind a singing sound in your ears for a few minutes, a referee's whistle.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #15 on: 27 February, 2017, 11:12:45 am »
stray dogs don't bite most of the time, but sometimes they do. it happened to one of the riders on an italian audax, where he had to spend half a day in a hospital to sort out two deep bites in his thigh. he said he'll be carrying a pistol from now on and shoot any dog that chases him :)

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #16 on: 27 February, 2017, 11:28:37 am »
So the best thing to do when chased by threatening dogs is to stop and get off the bike (but keep the bike between you and them if possible). All of a sudden, to a dog, you've then become a human, not game. Even better, appear as big and threatening and noisy as possible and look like you're about to attack them. The vast majority of the time that's enough to make them understand you're trouble and they'll back off. If they still hang around, walk away, keeping them in sight, until they lose interest, which will be at the edge of their territory, which is not usually all that large, especially if there's neighbours.

That works for me, even with fairly large packs of dogs that you find in rural Sicily, Morocco, etc.  Focus on the closest dog (will be the 'leader') and intimidate it into backing down.  I shout extremely loudly (which has the added bonus of attracting the owner's attention if nearby) and try and show no signs of fear.  Even if they don't back off they will get bored after a few minutes and you can proceed slowly, all the time maintaining eye contact.

Trying to out-pace them is exactly the wrong approach IMO.  They either see you as prey, or it becomes a fun game for them which can go on for many miles.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #17 on: 27 February, 2017, 11:36:47 am »
Shotgun

Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #18 on: 27 February, 2017, 01:06:39 pm »
I think pepper spray is legal in Italy. Need to buy it over there though and get rid of it before you return to the UK.
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
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Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #19 on: 05 March, 2017, 06:42:39 pm »
In France, we have a surprisingly high success rate by shouting at dogs "à la maison" (go back home). It might be worth learning how to say "go back home" in Italian!

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Sicilian Dogs ( no offence intended)
« Reply #20 on: 05 March, 2017, 06:51:25 pm »
Make it an offer it can't refuse.


IGMC
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