Author Topic: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax  (Read 1435 times)

Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« on: July 12, 2017, 06:09:45 pm »
I DNF'd the Mille Pennines 1000km Audax on Sunday morning, after completing day 1 and 2; a performance I'm pretty happy with overall, but I'm now looking forward at ironing out the errors I made to go further next time.
Once of the big problems I had during the ride was what to eat, how much and when. When options are limited to petrol stations and shops, what do you favour to keep the energy levels topped up without ending up feeling bloated and sick? Are cycling specific energy bars/gels the answer? I'd rather stick to real food if I can, although I'm open minded to any option.


Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 10:45:14 am »
I DNF'd the Mille Pennines 1000km Audax on Sunday morning, after completing day 1 and 2; a performance I'm pretty happy with overall, but I'm now looking forward at ironing out the errors I made to go further next time.
Once of the big problems I had during the ride was what to eat, how much and when. When options are limited to petrol stations and shops, what do you favour to keep the energy levels topped up without ending up feeling bloated and sick? Are cycling specific energy bars/gels the answer? I'd rather stick to real food if I can, although I'm open minded to any option.

Just taking a very rough approximation, 1000km will burn about 20,000 calories. That's a lot of food.

Given the general low intensity nature of audax, it makes sense (especially where you are predisposed to gastro upset) to get as much as that from bodyfat as possible.

In order to fat adapt the surest way is go keto, you then have no choice as the brain will fire up it's backup system in the absence of glucose. Even if you switched easily, keto is really hard to maintain in the modern world. You will aslo be slower less powerful all things being equal. (DR Louise Bourke has some research on the body down regulating it's use of glycogen in it's absence and presence of ketones) So if you want to have a fairly quality but not too restricted diet I'd be inclined to
*eat well, not necessarily hflc but, if you are going to eat a good percentage of carbs have them decent with plenty fibre, low gi etc etc. Good clean quality food with minimal sugar, processed foods
* try intermittent fasting, say one day a week when doing something sedentary. Whether any physiological changes happen or not(they probably will) it'll help you mentally when exercising fasted.
* start with a short spin and build up. My first spin was 30km I think. Bring an apple, the world champion of cycling foods, tastier than a banana and rugged as fcuk! A lot of it is in your head, sip water when you think you are hungry.
You will adapt slowly.
*If you feel miserable, eat. It's not a misery contest.
*If you are ever travelling use it as a chance to avoid airport, convenience a do a 24hr fast. If you are used to IF it's surprisingly easy


Adaptation will take a while though so don't dive straight in. I'm at this 3 years or so and if I was riding a 1000km next week over 60hrs or so i'd probably do the following. I'd start each day fasted and consume very little on bike circa 1000-1500 calories over 350km or so. I would then eat a lot when finished with little regard to macros other than adequate protein given the catabolic nature of fasted endurance riding, just eat. Carbs won't be in short supply at any audax control! Same day after.


Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 11:06:07 am »
I would stay away from gels

We should be approaching this in the same way as someone doing heavy manual labour. Solid meals, work steadily but not too high an intensity.

The only difference is the sleep deprivation.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 11:42:51 am »
It is difficult to absorb food when exercising intensely, especially while hot.

Not everyone can digest fatty food on the move.

Avoid BIG meals unless having a LONG rest.

Real Food will get you most places.

Eat as soon as you stop; in a queue, after a puncture.

The foods you crave and fancy are a good clue as to what you need. They vary enormously between individuals. I might want a Frijj; you might not!

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 06:37:01 pm »
I started only eating real food but eventually found I could do long rides using only sports food.   I was converted to gels and bars, but can't stomach carb drinks, preferring electrolyte drinks which are useful to carry around in tablet form.

On audaxes now, I use gels and bars from a top tube bag between controls but less frequently than if I was riding a time trial so, for example, 2 bars and 2 gels during a 50k leg.   I will then still eat normal food at the controls just less of it.   On PBP I averaged a full meal at every other control, preferring a baguette or other snack at the others.

Many people on here now preach keto and fat adaptation.   I've never tried it but get the feeling that my body really needs carbs on long rides.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2017, 06:45:27 pm »
I have tried eating less carbohydrate at various stages. It has never worked for me.
Failed on a morning commute as I had skipped breakfast.

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 07:00:31 pm »
I started only eating real food but eventually found I could do long rides using only sports food.   I was converted to gels and bars, but can't stomach carb drinks, preferring electrolyte drinks which are useful to carry around in tablet form.

On audaxes now, I use gels and bars from a top tube bag between controls but less frequently than if I was riding a time trial so, for example, 2 bars and 2 gels during a 50k leg.   I will then still eat normal food at the controls just less of it.   On PBP I averaged a full meal at every other control, preferring a baguette or other snack at the others.

Many people on here now preach keto and fat adaptation.   I've never tried it but get the feeling that my body really needs carbs on long rides.

The whole point about keto adaption, is that it is adaption.  Your body has to be trained to burn fat, and that process can take up to 8 weeks to run its course.  Until your body has converted to running on ketones you'll feel weak as though you've lost the top 25% of your power output.  Once you're out the other side, you've got to avoid eating too many carbs, as the body will simply take the easy way out and switch back.  However when burning fat, you don't need to eat to do long rides, as most people have plenty of fat reserves to keep them going.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2017, 07:02:09 pm »
Low carb takes adaptation. Some folks can do it in a few days, most take a few weeks.

For best results, give it a year. Few do - it takes focus.

X-post with Adam!

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2017, 08:15:19 pm »
I think if I were to move back to doing long Audaxes only then moving to fat burning would be something I would consider, however I spend a fair bit of time working at a higher level these days and I just don't think it would work.  I will fuel next weeks 24hr TT purely in carb using gels/bars as it works for me.

In typical forum fashion the OP asked whether to use sports food or avoid and he's been told to avoid gels and to use gels.  The best thing to do is to experiment over shorter distances until you come up with a formula.   I only fuel purely from sports food on TTs and mix and match when audaxing.   I think that little and often is my main recommendation.

LMT

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2017, 08:57:32 pm »
I started only eating real food but eventually found I could do long rides using only sports food.   I was converted to gels and bars, but can't stomach carb drinks, preferring electrolyte drinks which are useful to carry around in tablet form.

On audaxes now, I use gels and bars from a top tube bag between controls but less frequently than if I was riding a time trial so, for example, 2 bars and 2 gels during a 50k leg.   I will then still eat normal food at the controls just less of it.   On PBP I averaged a full meal at every other control, preferring a baguette or other snack at the others.

Many people on here now preach keto and fat adaptation.   I've never tried it but get the feeling that my body really needs carbs on long rides.

The whole point about keto adaption, is that it is adaption.  Your body has to be trained to burn fat, and that process can take up to 8 weeks to run its course.  Until your body has converted to running on ketones you'll feel weak as though you've lost the top 25% of your power output.  Once you're out the other side, you've got to avoid eating too many carbs, as the body will simply take the easy way out and switch back.  However when burning fat, you don't need to eat to do long rides, as most people have plenty of fat reserves to keep them going.

Would love for you or anyone else on a keto diet to do a sweetspot session or go tempo for a couple of hours.

OP, my advice would be to experiment, I've finally found what works for me and this some carb drink with some electrolyte tablets added for good measure. I still eat real food but this is in small measures but more frequently, for example a couple of bananas every couple of hours.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2017, 09:15:15 pm »
"options are limited to petrol stations and shops" so learn to survive on Friji and sandwiches
try to stop at regular meal times (7am, 12noon, 5pm, 11pm) and eat whatever proper food is available
Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

dim

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2017, 08:16:50 am »
Ellas baby food ..... much better than gels, and it has natural sugars ... the fruit ones are best .... The banana and coconut is very good




mattc

  • "Hannibal"
  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 10:29:26 am »
"options are limited to petrol stations and shops" so learn to survive on Friji and sandwiches
try to stop at regular meal times (7am, 12noon, 5pm, 11pm) and eat whatever proper food is available
Yeah, there are usually a lot of pretty healthy options in petrol stations. Pick the right sandwiches, look out for chicken salads etc - lots of options usually :)

My tip is to look out for "local delicacies"; stuff only that shop sells (or the ones in that area), not made by some big brand at silly prices with billions of additives. The garage at Wick (on the Cheddar 300) does a great range of samosas and similar, in amongst the Frijj & Ginsters. Those and a Costa fuel me nicely for another 80k  :thumbsup:
(I seem to recall Yorkshire & Cumbria shops having various tarts/pies/cakes last weekend, Kev).
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2017, 11:39:52 am »
The harder the route, the more I try to stick to very easily digested foods.  Baked beans, soup, etc are good  for that. 

Manotea

  • Just 1 sob, Vassily
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2017, 12:20:43 pm »
"options are limited to petrol stations and shops" so learn to survive on Friji and sandwiches

Ketonauts pack or pickup some sausage, cheese, pork scratchings, whatever (all standard service station /corner shop fodder nowadays) and are good for the rest of the day... and much cheaper than regular carb/sugary snacks per calorie. #Ketowin #YPYPATYC

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2017, 03:35:36 pm »
Not everyone can digest fatty food on the move.

Avoid BIG meals unless having a LONG rest.

I wish I'd remembered this at the weekend.  Big fat fry up (with oily fried bread) 1/3 of the way round a long 200  ruined me for the next four hours.  Couldn't eat anything or drink much for the next 100km, and it slowed me right down until I'd digested the grease.  Should've had beans on toast instead.

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2017, 05:15:00 pm »
A full-English on the second day of my last 600 (route-checking the Buzzard) didn't seem to make much difference—I was grinding around anyway.

Many years ago, riding a Hard-boiled 300 (starting about four hours after finishing a Welsh 400), all I could cope with at about 5 in the morning was grilled tomatoes on toast.  It got better later.

Manotea

  • Just 1 sob, Vassily
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2017, 06:04:22 pm »
There's the rub. On a Keto diet you don't eat large (carb heavy) fry ups. You don't need/want to because you just don't get that hungry.

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2017, 11:01:37 pm »
pork scratchings

Currently being reinvented as a superfood, so I’ve been reading.

It’s still the skin of a pig though.

Manotea

  • Just 1 sob, Vassily
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2017, 11:42:24 pm »
pork scratchings

Currently being reinvented as a superfood, so I’ve been reading.

It’s still the skin of a pig though.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. In ten years time we'll all be eating whitchetty grubs. Fried, obvs. :)

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2017, 11:56:39 pm »
Not everyone can digest fatty food on the move.

Avoid BIG meals unless having a LONG rest.

I wish I'd remembered this at the weekend.  Big fat fry up (with oily fried bread) 1/3 of the way round a long 200  ruined me for the next four hours.  Couldn't eat anything or drink much for the next 100km, and it slowed me right down until I'd digested the grease.  Should've had beans on toast instead.

The Brevet Cymru has a rather tempting cafe on the seas front at New Quay.
Some riders experience their fish and chips again on the climb...

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2017, 07:06:30 am »
Ellas baby food ..... much better than gels, and it has natural sugars ... the fruit ones are best .... The banana and coconut is very good





I think I may try this. Box, out, think.

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2017, 07:56:48 am »
Not everyone can digest fatty food on the move.

Avoid BIG meals unless having a LONG rest.

I wish I'd remembered this at the weekend.  Big fat fry up (with oily fried bread) 1/3 of the way round a long 200  ruined me for the next four hours.  Couldn't eat anything or drink much for the next 100km, and it slowed me right down until I'd digested the grease.  Should've had beans on toast instead.

The Brevet Cymru has a rather tempting cafe on the seas front at New Quay.
Some riders experience their fish and chips again on the climb...

That's definitely a place to think carefully about what you eat.

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2017, 08:43:48 am »
The Brevet Cymru has a rather tempting cafe on the seas front at New Quay.
Some riders experience their fish and chips again on the climb...

I've eaten too much there too.  I could taste the lasagne all the way up to the Synod Inn. ::-) :facepalm: