Author Topic: Which Tubeless Tyres?  (Read 5538 times)

dim

Which Tubeless Tyres?
« on: 04 September, 2017, 09:30:34 am »
I have been using Hed Belgium Plus rims with Chris King Hubs and Specialized Turbo Cotton clinchers on my Giant TCR 2.

Brilliant fast tyres, and they have served me well (1 puncture on the rear from a large shard of glass that would have punctured a tractor tyre). I've been using the Giant for faster rides on good roads (max 100km long rides)

It's time for new tyres and I'd really like to try tubeless. (The Hed Belgium Plus rims are tubeless ready). I'm looking for tyres that will be used during Autumn for fast rides on good roads (I currently ride approx 1000km per month on this bike)

I have a spare set of Conti GP 4000 Sii (clinchers), and I thought that I would use these for a while before going tubeless. They are 25mm wide and they don't fit my frame (The Belgium Plus are a wide rim and the 25mm Conti's measured close to 30mm wide when installed). The Turbo Cotton's are 24mm wide and measured over 27mm wide on these rims

so, it looks like I will need to stick with 23mm wide tyres.

From the tyres that I have looked at, 2 stand out .... The Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless (23mm), and the Hutchinson Fusion 5 Tubeless Galactik  (23mm)

any comments or other suggestions?
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #1 on: 04 September, 2017, 09:40:54 am »
Schwalbe One Pro a great tyres. You might find the 25s fit - the first version comes up at about 26mm on 19mm internal rims, but obviously will need to check the new version.

Malcolm Borg at Cycle Clinic also imports (and swears by) IRC tyres - various weights available from him.

You could add the Vitoria Corsa Speed TL - includes graphene in the tread compound, but have a reputation for fragility/short life. I've a pair, but not ridden yet. 23mm only.

dim

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #2 on: 04 September, 2017, 09:45:05 am »
Schwalbe One Pro a great tyres. You might find the 25s fit - the first version comes up at about 26mm on 19mm internal rims, but obviously will need to check the new version.

Malcolm Borg at Cycle Clinic also imports (and swears by) IRC tyres - various weights available from him.

You could add the Vitoria Corsa Speed TL - includes graphene in the tread compound, but have a reputation for fragility/short life. I've a pair, but not ridden yet. 23mm only.

thanks .... I will have a close look ah the IRC tyres .... the Corsa Speed TL are definately on my 'wish list' and I'm hoping to get a pair in Spring next year.
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #3 on: 04 September, 2017, 10:14:45 am »
there's also a sizing issue to consider; some (tubeless) tyres and rims go together better than others do, because the rims are slightly different diameters. I have no idea how the rims you have stack up in that respect though.

cheers

dim

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #4 on: 04 September, 2017, 10:37:23 am »
there's also a sizing issue to consider; some (tubeless) tyres and rims go together better than others do, because the rims are slightly different diameters. I have no idea how the rims you have stack up in that respect though.

cheers

The HED Belgium plus are wide, and from what I have found on the internet, Schwalbe One tubeless 700x23 measures 26.2 at 75psi on Belgium Plus, IRC Prolite Tubeless 700x25 measures 28 at 75psi

 (The Conti GP 4000 SII clinchers in 25mm rub against the frame on the back and are close to 30mm wide)

The IRC 25's may fit (assuming that the ifo is correct)

The Specilized Turbo Cotton clinchers (24mm) measure over 27mm wide on my rims, so to be on the safe side, it looks like 23's will be my best bet

so far, I'm leaning towards Schwalbe Pro One in 23mm
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #5 on: 04 September, 2017, 10:44:37 am »
diameter, not width.

cheers


Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #6 on: 05 September, 2017, 11:06:13 am »
I've just fitted Maxxis Padrone TR on my bike. They come up at spot on 25mm on a 23mm wide rim. They roll and grip well and are comfortable.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #7 on: 05 September, 2017, 01:46:42 pm »
Funnily enough, I've just taken delivery this morning of a pair of Schwalbe Pro One 25c and a Tubeless Easy Kit. Obviously haven't actually ridden them yet but looking forward to trying them.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #8 on: 05 September, 2017, 01:50:27 pm »
Quote
This is the problem with 23mm tubeless tyres. The air volume is small and therefore the pressure drop is large before the tyre seals. Bigger tyres can seal at a higher pressure due to the larger air volume. This make larger tubeless tyres more practical. I consider 25mm the minimum size for a tubeless tyre for this reason alone.

See https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres

Of course you might decide that your massive rims will push a 23mm tyre to over 26mm so therefore it's ok

I've used the Schwalbe Pro One 23mm on slightly wider rims and found that they rolled well.  The reliability was not good however.   But I now believe these reliability issues was due, at least partly, to problems with CO2 killing the sealant

It's a less than ideal way to test it out.  But if you just want to do it for a bit of fun, go for it

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #9 on: 05 September, 2017, 02:24:34 pm »
Quote
This is the problem with 23mm tubeless tyres. The air volume is small and therefore the pressure drop is large before the tyre seals. Bigger tyres can seal at a higher pressure due to the larger air volume. This make larger tubeless tyres more practical. I consider 25mm the minimum size for a tubeless tyre for this reason alone.

See https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres

Of course you might decide that your massive rims will push a 23mm tyre to over 26mm so therefore it's ok

I've used the Schwalbe Pro One 23mm on slightly wider rims and found that they rolled well.  The reliability was not good however.   But I now believe these reliability issues was due, at least partly, to problems with CO2 killing the sealant

It's a less than ideal way to test it out.  But if you just want to do it for a bit of fun, go for it

To provide some counterpoint, I've not yet relied on anything more than a track pump to seat Ones. Sometimes I have needed to remove the valve core for the initial seat however. Kinlin and DT Swiss rims.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #10 on: 05 September, 2017, 04:30:08 pm »
Quote
This is the problem with 23mm tubeless tyres. The air volume is small and therefore the pressure drop is large before the tyre seals. Bigger tyres can seal at a higher pressure due to the larger air volume. This make larger tubeless tyres more practical. I consider 25mm the minimum size for a tubeless tyre for this reason alone.

See https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres

Of course you might decide that your massive rims will push a 23mm tyre to over 26mm so therefore it's ok

I've used the Schwalbe Pro One 23mm on slightly wider rims and found that they rolled well.  The reliability was not good however.   But I now believe these reliability issues was due, at least partly, to problems with CO2 killing the sealant

It's a less than ideal way to test it out.  But if you just want to do it for a bit of fun, go for it

To provide some counterpoint, I've not yet relied on anything more than a track pump to seat Ones. Sometimes I have needed to remove the valve core for the initial seat however. Kinlin and DT Swiss rims.

It's out of context but the quote is talking about punctures
I agree that usually seating a tyre with a track pump is fine

dim

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #11 on: 05 September, 2017, 07:41:33 pm »
I've just fitted Maxxis Padrone TR on my bike. They come up at spot on 25mm on a 23mm wide rim. They roll and grip well and are comfortable.

nice tyres and from what I have read, they roll well and last long (up to 5000 miles) .... definately on my shortlist for longer Audax rides if I decide to stick with tubeless.

here is an interesting thread on another forum which discusses the Pardone (and a few other issues) :

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/maxxis-padrone-tubeless-242537.html


“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

gibbo

  • Riding for fun, cake and beer.
    • Boxford Bike Club
Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #12 on: 06 September, 2017, 09:16:44 am »
I've very recently started running Schwalbe Pro One folders on DT Swiss PR1400 wheels, the same setup as used and recommended to me by the owner of my LBS (Pinarello no less!) and whilst I really like the combination for ride smoothness and comfort I'm finding I lose about 20psi on the rear and 5psi front overnight.

I talked to the owner and he confirmed he had the same issue which is slightly annoying as I probably wouldn't have run the same setup. Not a problem when at home due to having a track pump on hand but not the best when doing a multi day trip and having to use one of those tiny pumps. Please don't tell me to get another pump - the issue is that the wheel/ tyre combo should seal.

Given the above I can't say I'd recommend the setup I have, rather disappointed given the overall cost.

Gibbo.

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #13 on: 06 September, 2017, 09:35:53 am »
I've very recently started running Schwalbe Pro One folders on DT Swiss PR1400 wheels, the same setup as used and recommended to me by the owner of my LBS (Pinarello no less!) and whilst I really like the combination for ride smoothness and comfort I'm finding I lose about 20psi on the rear and 5psi front overnight.

I talked to the owner and he confirmed he had the same issue which is slightly annoying as I probably wouldn't have run the same setup. Not a problem when at home due to having a track pump on hand but not the best when doing a multi day trip and having to use one of those tiny pumps. Please don't tell me to get another pump - the issue is that the wheel/ tyre combo should seal.

Given the above I can't say I'd recommend the setup I have, rather disappointed given the overall cost.

Gibbo.

I have a suspicion that it's the higher pressures with lower volume tyres that might be the issue. I had Sector 28's for about 18 months and was basically happy but they did want for grip in the wet. I've recently fitted G-one speeds and really like them, can't say they are noticeably slower than a pure slick at my limited ability but the grip level is great, not sure about longevity yet.

Both tyre types losing about 10psi per week, from 70 ish, on Stans Grail rims. I reckon I do go overboard with the sealant though, 40ish ml per tyre.

This is no help to the OP.

gibbo

  • Riding for fun, cake and beer.
    • Boxford Bike Club
Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #14 on: 06 September, 2017, 11:00:55 am »
I have a suspicion that it's the higher pressures with lower volume tyres that might be the issue. I had Sector 28's for about 18 months and was basically happy but they did want for grip in the wet. I've recently fitted G-one speeds and really like them, can't say they are noticeably slower than a pure slick at my limited ability but the grip level is great, not sure about longevity yet.

Both tyre types losing about 10psi per week, from 70 ish, on Stans Grail rims. I reckon I do go overboard with the sealant though, 40ish ml per tyre.

This is no help to the OP.

I tend to run 85 rear, 80 front on these tyres which are 25mm. Sealant volume was that recommended, 30ml, I think.

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #15 on: 06 September, 2017, 03:40:51 pm »
I have a suspicion that it's the higher pressures with lower volume tyres that might be the issue. I had Sector 28's for about 18 months and was basically happy but they did want for grip in the wet. I've recently fitted G-one speeds and really like them, can't say they are noticeably slower than a pure slick at my limited ability but the grip level is great, not sure about longevity yet.

Both tyre types losing about 10psi per week, from 70 ish, on Stans Grail rims. I reckon I do go overboard with the sealant though, 40ish ml per tyre.

This is no help to the OP.

I tend to run 85 rear, 80 front on these tyres which are 25mm. Sealant volume was that recommended, 30ml, I think.

You should be fine with 30ml of sealant and 25mm Ones. If they were mine I'd be renewing the tape and remounting the tyres.

gibbo

  • Riding for fun, cake and beer.
    • Boxford Bike Club
Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #16 on: 06 September, 2017, 03:43:12 pm »

You should be fine with 30ml of sealant and 25mm Ones. If they were mine I'd be renewing the tape and remounting the tyres.

The whole set-up is brand new - probably done about 750km total.

dim

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #17 on: 06 September, 2017, 09:57:00 pm »
I think that I'm going to opt for the Maxxis Padrone TR tubeless tyres for now ..... winter is approaching and I'd like to use my Giant for some long faster rides withouth having to hassle with punctures on tubeless tyres .... I will get my LBS to fit them (but I will watch and learn)

from what I have read, it can become a nightmare ..... CO2 is not recomended with  sealant, and some say that they need a track pump to seat the tyres properly .... so, a spare conti GP4000 and tube will have to be carried with me on all my rides

these Maxxis Padrone seem strong and get 4000 miles + from what I have read... I will most probably opt for the 23"s (here is a you tube video explaining tyre width on my HED wide rims (speed vs comfort) and 23's will match my rim for speed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py9Loc8xjoo

in spring, I will definately get a pair of Vittoria Corsa Speed (open TLR) for fast rides.... I will most probably use the Specialized Turbo cotton again (best tyres that I have used so far)
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #18 on: 06 September, 2017, 10:48:47 pm »
Hope you have great success.

Mike

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #19 on: 06 September, 2017, 10:54:15 pm »

You should be fine with 30ml of sealant and 25mm Ones. If they were mine I'd be renewing the tape and remounting the tyres.

The whole set-up is brand new - probably done about 750km total.


I understood that. It was just that, in my experience, if you're losing air after fitting and adding sealant, there is probably something wrong with the installation. This could be:

  • Tape not sealing properly
    bead/rim interface not well aligned/damaged
    some combination of the two
    some tyres are a bit 'weepy' from the side walls at first, but they would have sealed in your mileae

So, if they were mine I'd just remove, clean and remount.

Of course, it is possible that your rims don't work with your tyres, but I've a set on DT Swiss RR511s and they're fine.

Mike

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #20 on: 06 September, 2017, 11:27:22 pm »
I had a tape issue on one of the H+ Son Archetypes I built up for LEL.
The Schwalbe Pro One just wouldn't hold pressure.

I stripped off the tape (which all looked OK) and re-did it.  Problem went away.

dim

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #21 on: 07 September, 2017, 05:35:22 am »
an interesting chart (I never knew that Specialized made the Turbo tyres in tubeless):

snip:

Here, ranked in order, are the 34 tires from our test, with the power, in watts, each requires to maintain a speed of 40kph
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road-what-makes-cycling-tires-fast#BpgvH2rmlWXUFFzq.99



“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

gibbo

  • Riding for fun, cake and beer.
    • Boxford Bike Club
Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #22 on: 07 September, 2017, 12:39:07 pm »

You should be fine with 30ml of sealant and 25mm Ones. If they were mine I'd be renewing the tape and remounting the tyres.

The whole set-up is brand new - probably done about 750km total.


I understood that. It was just that, in my experience, if you're losing air after fitting and adding sealant, there is probably something wrong with the installation. This could be:

  • Tape not sealing properly
    bead/rim interface not well aligned/damaged
    some combination of the two
    some tyres are a bit 'weepy' from the side walls at first, but they would have sealed in your mileae

So, if they were mine I'd just remove, clean and remount.

Of course, it is possible that your rims don't work with your tyres, but I've a set on DT Swiss RR511s and they're fine.

Mike

All of the above very possible. When setting up the front tyre (the one that currently holds pressure best) it sealed straight away using my track pump, the rear was a different story and I had to get the LBS to use their compressor set-up to get the tyre to inflate quickly and seal. I noticed when attempting to inflate that there was some leakage around a couple of spokes which means (probably??) that the tape is not doing its job very well. I'll leave things as they are for the moment but will probably have to strip down and retape the rim.

I do own a compressor but not the necessary attachments to inflate tyres, that's on the list of things to do - don't want to have to use the LBS every time I want to change a tyre - madness!

Gibbo.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #23 on: 07 September, 2017, 01:10:25 pm »

You should be fine with 30ml of sealant and 25mm Ones. If they were mine I'd be renewing the tape and remounting the tyres.

The whole set-up is brand new - probably done about 750km total.


I understood that. It was just that, in my experience, if you're losing air after fitting and adding sealant, there is probably something wrong with the installation. This could be:

  • Tape not sealing properly
    bead/rim interface not well aligned/damaged
    some combination of the two
    some tyres are a bit 'weepy' from the side walls at first, but they would have sealed in your mileae

So, if they were mine I'd just remove, clean and remount.

Of course, it is possible that your rims don't work with your tyres, but I've a set on DT Swiss RR511s and they're fine.

Mike

I agree with all this
I've also had a problem with the valve stem not being tight enough.  I cranked it up to "very tight" and the losses stopped

Re: Which Tubeless Tyres?
« Reply #24 on: 07 September, 2017, 01:23:19 pm »
There is a plumbers mastic (it is actually a non-setting silicon) for compression joints and washers called fernox LS-X. I wonder if that would be good to smear on the valve hole and valve washer before fitting?
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