Author Topic: Words you obviously SHOULD understand  (Read 5924 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #25 on: 06 February, 2018, 09:57:59 am »
But it seems to be commonly used with a less specific meaning.

I've sometimes found myself doubting my understanding of the term because of the way it is used, but I think you're right that the meaning has changed a bit so it has a more general 'fake news' sense.

I'm assuming that people who misuse the term haven't seen the film. They should. It's great. Well, the Ingrid Bergman version is - I've not seen the other one.
Your gaslighting has been gaslit!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #26 on: 06 February, 2018, 09:59:04 am »
Your gaslighting has been gaslit!

Ha! If only that had been intentional.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #27 on: 06 February, 2018, 10:05:37 am »
... Gaslight is though its an Americanism that is becoming more prevalent over here. Ten years ago you wouldn't have heard it in the UK.
Unless you were listening to Steely Dan.

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #28 on: 06 February, 2018, 10:05:51 am »
The changing nature of our vocabulary has made the English language what it is today.

Shakespeare seems responsible for many words which, at the time, probably had the "Disgruntled of Chipping Norton" word-police on his back.

It amuses me when people ridicule Americans for using words which, in reality, are the original old English words simply unchanged.  America has "curated" many English words whilst we moved on.

Leverage (Pr. Levverage) seems to have been assimilated into BBC Reporter English now. I think it's to give the impression they understand stock markets.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #29 on: 06 February, 2018, 11:54:51 am »
 "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
    "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
    "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

    Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. "They've a temper, some of them—particularly verbs, they're the proudest—adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs—however, I can manage the whole lot! Impenetrability! That's what I say!"

Quote
Under the deconstructionist model, our system of
constitutional democracy would be relegated to a chaos not unlike
Alice’s encounter with Humpty Dumpty in Wonderland, where every
word, untethered from predictable meaning, means just what an
individual interpreter chooses for it to mean, “neither more nor less.”
The most fundamental problem with the linguistic chaos theory is that
the notion that words are capable of infinite construction simply defies
common sense. Indeed, there would hardly be a point to a written
Constitution in the first place—much less explicit provision of a formal
amendment process—if this were so.
Move Faster and Bake Things

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #30 on: 06 February, 2018, 04:20:08 pm »
Your gaslighting has been gaslit!

Gaslighted, shirley?

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #31 on: 06 February, 2018, 05:20:42 pm »
Words change, get with it granddad(s).

I presume 'gaslight' came to the fore recently because it's a bit less wordy that describing the process and outcome. To my mind, it doesn't seem to work as a word, mostly because my brain spends a few moment trying to picture an actual hazy gaslit scene, maybe London 1890, guvnor.

exactly,
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

ian

Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #32 on: 06 February, 2018, 05:34:03 pm »
gaslightenment
noun
the action of gaslightening or the state of being gaslightened: Margaret became convinced by Tom that her wardrobe was filled by invisible rabbits, put there by the Illuminati on a daily basis while she was at work. Margaret blamed her lack of carrots on this, rather than her not going to the shop.

• the action or state of attaining misleading knowledge, in particular a false awareness that through steady and persistent abrasion of sanity frees a person from tiresome burdens of rationality.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #33 on: 06 February, 2018, 11:07:45 pm »
I did learn a new one this evening, reading The Origin of Species, I came across signification

“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #34 on: 07 February, 2018, 01:07:24 am »
signification
also found in the literary work translated for King James, at 1 Corinthians 14:10, which is perhaps relevant to the multitude of voices / words we experience

meddyg

  • 'You'll have had your tea?'
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #35 on: 08 February, 2018, 05:21:37 pm »
'Signification' is the modern French translation of 'significance'

e.g. 'La signification clinique de cette observation est inconnue'

whereas you really want 'significance' (pronounced with a French accent) to be the word!

meddyg

  • 'You'll have had your tea?'
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #36 on: 08 February, 2018, 05:23:19 pm »
Can I offer 'envision' ?

It means no more than 'to see' but adds a certain superiority which 'seeing' apparently lacks !
Thus favoured favoured by the Americans...

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #37 on: 08 February, 2018, 05:42:43 pm »
The changing nature of our vocabulary has made the English language what it is today.
...
It amuses me when people ridicule Americans for using words which, in reality, are the original old English words simply unchanged.

Yeah, but that's not what MattC was talking about when he started this thread. He's talking about what Fowler called "vogue words" - these are not new words, but those that have gone from relative obscurity to suddenly becoming inexplicably popular. Or to use another vogue word, have gone "viral".

There are people who study these things and could probably give hard stats to show how words like gaslighting and liminal and curated have risen and fallen in popularity over the years.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #38 on: 08 February, 2018, 06:07:15 pm »
This thread has proved to be a lightning rod for all sorts of pet peeves that YACfers have about modern language usage!

[or do I mean dog-whistle? I really should get round to looking that one up ... ]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

ian

Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #39 on: 08 February, 2018, 06:11:39 pm »
I like liminal. It's slinky little word, your never sure why side it'll be on, and it loves a prefix. Look away for a moment, and it sub or super.

I don't like gaslight though, it's a word with an existing resonant meaning that doesn't connect with its new usage, and relies on a cultural metaphor of which most people won't be aware (I had to Google). It's a trying a bit hard to be clever. It's only a matter of time until the other words take it out back and show it how real words work.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #40 on: 08 February, 2018, 06:14:55 pm »
TBH gaslighting makes me think of farts. I can't believe that someone (ian!) hasn't mentioned this yet.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #41 on: 08 February, 2018, 06:43:03 pm »
I don't like gaslight though, it's a word with an existing resonant meaning that doesn't connect with its new usage, and relies on a cultural metaphor of which most people won't be aware (I had to Google). It's a trying a bit hard to be clever.

It's one step away from becoming a fully fledged idiom.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #42 on: 08 February, 2018, 06:54:41 pm »
There are people who study these things and could probably give hard stats to show how words like gaslighting and liminal and curated have risen and fallen in popularity over the years.
Google Ngram Viewer.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=gaslighting%2Climinal%2Ccurated&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cgaslighting%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Climinal%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ccurated%3B%2Cc0

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #43 on: 08 February, 2018, 07:52:47 pm »
I like liminal. It's slinky little word, your never sure why side it'll be on, and it loves a prefix. Look away for a moment, and it sub or super.


Jeez - this family gets weirder the more I dig. Wiki says:

Adjective
superluminal (comparative more superluminal, superlative most superluminal)

(astronomy, physics, fiction, fantasy) Faster than light; having a speed greater than light.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

ian

Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #44 on: 08 February, 2018, 08:03:22 pm »
That's luminal (light) not liminal.

Superliminal means above the threshold of consciousness (the opposite of subliminal), or to those up brought up on a diet of The Unexplained, things beyond the realm of normal human consciousness, like mental telepathy and clairvoyance.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #45 on: 08 February, 2018, 08:13:50 pm »
oh bolox!

 ;D

[I blame search engines that try to 2nd-guess your spelling. And this: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/superliminal#See_also ]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #46 on: 08 February, 2018, 08:22:12 pm »
oh bolox!

 ;D

[I blame search engines that try to 2nd-guess your spelling ...]

Tachyonic editing.

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Words you obviously SHOULD understand
« Reply #47 on: 08 February, 2018, 08:46:44 pm »
Three of my favourite web sites*.

https://britishisms.wordpress.com

https://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.co.uk

http://www.worldwidewords.org


The last of these is no longer actively maintained, but if you are intrigued by and amused by etymology it will keep you amused for hours, possibly days.  The other two are fascinating;  showing how words migrate and how the meanings of words change subtly and not so subtly when they are adopted by others.  Prepare to lose hours and hours and _hours_ of your life. :)


*They may be "blogs", I neither know nor care.
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