Author Topic: Brakes  (Read 3659 times)

Brakes
« on: 01 March, 2016, 08:07:06 pm »
Hi All,

I've never really been happy with the performance of the brakes on my late 90's steel framed Galaxy Twin (they are the original Deore LX cantilevers)  and as it looks like I'll be doing an Audax on her later in the year I'd like a bit of advice on upgrading them please.

AND before anyone suggest conversion to disc, that's just too expensive and not an option.

Wiggle have some Ultegra BR-CX70 CycloCross Cantilevers on offer just at the moment which I understand are pretty good. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

Re: Brakes
« Reply #1 on: 01 March, 2016, 09:41:58 pm »
Magura hydraulic rim brakes ?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Brakes
« Reply #2 on: 01 March, 2016, 10:07:25 pm »
Try new brake blocks (I like Koolstop salmon) and improved cable adjustment when you replace the brake cables.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Brakes
« Reply #3 on: 01 March, 2016, 10:13:21 pm »
Cantis need to be set up just right.  Try some mini Vs or some decent dual pivots instead

Re: Brakes
« Reply #4 on: 02 March, 2016, 05:54:07 am »
What he said^^^^. Changing from one set of cantis to another is not likely bring in any improvement. Try first to fine tune your cantis. If you don't know how, ask Sheldon Brown.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Brakes
« Reply #5 on: 02 March, 2016, 09:13:36 am »
What he said^^^^, though I'm not sure I'd go so far as holding a séance.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Brakes
« Reply #6 on: 02 March, 2016, 09:29:56 am »
What they said, in spades.

<i>Marmite slave</i>

Samuel D

Re: Brakes
« Reply #7 on: 02 March, 2016, 10:48:25 am »
I think what they said boils down to:

• change the cables and their housings
• change the pads (I also like Kool-Stop salmon)
• clean and lube the cantilever pivots
• clean and lube the levers if necessary
• optimise the geometry of the straddle cable per Sheldon Brown.

After all of that, the difference will probably be huge.

Re: Brakes
« Reply #8 on: 03 March, 2016, 08:58:40 am »
Suntour SE are often said to be the best cantis, they are certainly very good but I haven't tried enough different ones to be certain they are the best. So if you are going to change your brakes, you can get them from SJS cycles. But the critical thing with cantilever performance is the setup, so follow the advice above and get them working as well as possible.

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Brakes
« Reply #9 on: 03 March, 2016, 09:18:16 am »
Life's too short to spend extracting every nuance of power out of a set of 25 year old brakes.

A decent set of cyclo x brakes - I've no recommendation - would be the simplest replacement. New brakes, new straddle cable, same levers. You're away.

A set of mini V-s. The next best option. New brakes, new cables (inners AND outers), same brake levers.

V-brakes will need new levers too, unless you have the shimano levers that allow you to change the cable pull. If you have combination shifters then you will need new pods too. So that's potentially expensive.

Magura hydraulics I don't know a lot about. Awesomely powerful by repute. That's a complete system so again if you have combined shifters/levers you have to replace the lot.

If you want to send me pics of the current setup I'll try to help.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

eck

  • Gonna ride my bike until I get home...
    • Angus Bike Chain CC
Re: Brakes
« Reply #10 on: 03 March, 2016, 09:27:04 am »
Another vote for mini-Vs.
The cantis (Tektro Oryx) on my winter bike would, if you really really tried, would give a vague sensation of maybe thinking about eventually slowing down a little.
In desperation, I replaced them with mini-Vs (also Tektro) What a difference, and they work really well with Campag Ergos.  Nice modulation when you want it, a good firm bite when needed.   :thumbsup:
It's a bit weird, but actually quite wonderful.

Re: Brakes
« Reply #11 on: 03 March, 2016, 09:34:14 am »
We have Suntour SE on the back (and they do only fit the back) of the other tandem and to be honest they are OK without being spectacularly good.  They were dirt cheap at the time from SJS.

I'd go for something like Tektro CR720, commonly known as cylco x brakes, as others have recommended.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Brakes
« Reply #12 on: 03 March, 2016, 10:10:26 am »
Life's too short to spend extracting every nuance of power out of a set of 25 year old brakes.

A decent set of cyclo x brakes - I've no recommendation - would be the simplest replacement. New brakes, new straddle cable, same levers. You're away.

A set of mini V-s. The next best option. New brakes, new cables (inners AND outers), same brake levers.

The main reason why CXers use cantis is that they give better mud clearance than mini Vs - and a 1 hour CX race is short enough that your perfect brake setup doesn't have time to go out of adjustment..  Some people still use mini Vs though. 

A set of mini-Vs would be a simple drop-in replacement for the OP's bike.  A set from Tektro will cost £30 for a complete set

I agree about the 'life's too short' thing.  I went to the French Alps last year with a set of calipers on my road bike that had been decent at the start but which had got rather worn.  I was adjusting them after every ride and still wasn't confident on the downhills: they squeaked, they juddered, they weren't consistent.  That persuaded me to replace them with some new brakes: bliss!  My bike now stops so fast!  So reliably too!  I wish I'd got round to replacing the brakes before now.

Samuel D

Re: Brakes
« Reply #13 on: 03 March, 2016, 10:17:38 am »
Unless there is something wrong with the existing cantilevers, new ones will result in no improvement that wouldn’t be achieved by cleaning, lubing, and adjusting the existing ones, plus replacing the cables.

Replacing the cables and housings is essential regardless, so new brakes won’t even save much time.

It’s fashionable to treat entire assemblies as disposable these days, but it’s not right or clever.

Re: Brakes
« Reply #14 on: 03 March, 2016, 10:19:18 am »
The Captain was wanting to run something like 32mm tyres and I assume mudguards.  Is there sufficient clearance under mini Vs for this?

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Brakes
« Reply #15 on: 03 March, 2016, 10:30:52 am »
Unless there is something wrong with the existing cantilevers, new ones will result in no improvement that wouldn’t be achieved by cleaning, lubing, and adjusting the existing ones, plus replacing the cables.

Not if the bushings are worn out.

Samuel D

Re: Brakes
« Reply #16 on: 03 March, 2016, 10:39:45 am »
Sure. Check them.

I guess I have different priorities. My life is not so short I can’t do some enjoyable maintenance. And I think the reflex to buy whole new components every time performance declines is consumerism run amok.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Brakes
« Reply #17 on: 03 March, 2016, 11:29:41 am »
The Captain was wanting to run something like 32mm tyres and I assume mudguards.  Is there sufficient clearance under mini Vs for this?

In general they're designed to give some clearance with CX tyres, which are 35mm but don't generally use mudguards.  Some are more mini as others.  Tektro make a few models, and give lever lengths on their site - so the RX5 and RX6 brakes, which are designed for CX, are 5mm longer than the 930AL, which is designed for BMX bikes.  The TRP ones are a bit longer, but are spendy. 

Sure. Check them.

I guess I have different priorities. My life is not so short I can’t do some enjoyable maintenance. And I think the reflex to buy whole new components every time performance declines is consumerism run amok.

The OP's bike is coming up to its 20th birthday, I'm sure it's allowed a new set of brakes by now?

Re: Brakes
« Reply #18 on: 03 March, 2016, 08:45:47 pm »
The OP's bike is coming up to its 20th birthday, I'm sure it's allowed a new set of brakes by now?

It depends! On my 25 years old racer, I'm still delighted by the original calipers. On the other hand, I have already binned much more recent sets of brakes.  Back to the OP, my opinion is that cantilever brakes are extremely simple mechanical devices, so as long as the bushings are smooth enough, 20 years old brakes should be as good as new brakes

Re: Brakes
« Reply #19 on: 04 March, 2016, 12:47:18 am »
We use to use on a Super Galaxy tandem a standard V on the front and Suntour SE on the rear and Dia compe V levers. This worked OK for us on north Lancashire hills,albeit not laden with touring luggage.Our body weight totalled around 325lb.