Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Ian H on July 18, 2017, 12:19:11 pm

Title: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ian H on July 18, 2017, 12:19:11 pm
I'm planning a new 400 for next year which would start in Exeter and finish at or near London.  I'm thinking of a start towards the middle of the day on Saturday. Both start and finish would be near railway stations.

What does the panel think?

Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Manotea on July 18, 2017, 12:23:54 pm
Given I live in London, sounds good.

Question is, would the start time allow for travel down that morning or would it require an overnight stop?
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: trekker12 on July 18, 2017, 12:29:17 pm
Check the rules regarding transport of bikes on the west coast mainline. It will presumably be smaller scale but look at the Dunwich Dynamo for an extreme example of how it turns out when quite a number of cyclists try to use a train at the same time.

Often they will want you to be pre-booked on a train which can cause issues if you have a large entry and they can't all rely on a reasonably exact finish time - can be accommodated with a village hall and caek finish.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: mattc on July 18, 2017, 12:46:55 pm
[Do you mean GWR?!? ]

For the reasons trekker outlines, it might work better for folks to train down BEFORE i.e. have the start nearish to station + cheap rooms.  Getting around London - and out into nearby suburbs - isn't so bad without a reservation.

Or multiple start-times - say spanning 0900-12noon? - or whatever?

Certainly the basic route outline appeals  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: trekker12 on July 18, 2017, 12:47:55 pm
[Do you mean GWR?!? ]


Yes that one :)
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: nolongertries on July 18, 2017, 01:07:44 pm
Great idea. Please consider the option of trains departing from Waterloo as well.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 18, 2017, 01:08:47 pm
The idea of one way routes is good, I think. It's somehow philosophically appealing; you're going somewhere rather than simply riding for the sake of it. Or at least it allows you to kid yourself so!

Question is, would the start time allow for travel down that morning or would it require an overnight stop?
This applies to every audax ever organised. And sportives and so on.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ian H on July 18, 2017, 01:17:59 pm
Great idea. Please consider the option of trains departing from Waterloo as well.

There are two routes to Exeter, from Waterloo (slower and cheaper) and Paddington (faster, costlier).  They both meet at Exeter St Davids eventually.

Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: HK on July 18, 2017, 02:07:22 pm
Sounds like a grand idea to me.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Delph Cyclist on July 18, 2017, 03:51:46 pm
I like the idea.  Obviously, as I put on several 200km one-way Perms (Holyhead-Poynton, Poynton-Holyhead, Stalybridge-Scarborough).

I would want to book my bike place on the train - in fact I think it would be mandatory - but it would be an extra incentive to getting a shift on.  What sort of numbers of bikes do those trains take, and how many trains per hour?  For the Scarborough-Stalybridge train, it's 3 bikes on an hourly service, so it would take days to return a Calendar event to base.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: postie on July 18, 2017, 04:02:37 pm
Just ride home afterwards, simple  :demon:
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: trekker12 on July 18, 2017, 04:14:32 pm

What sort of numbers of bikes do those trains take, and how many trains per hour?  For the Scarborough-Stalybridge train, it's 3 bikes on an hourly service, so it would take days to return a Calendar event to base.

6 seems standard (all six in carriage A on a HST and 3 at each end of a local train) and two in the little local trains operating in the west according to page six of this handy leaflet - my local train company doesn't produce anything like as useful!

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/your-journey/journey-information/on-board/cycling-by-train-new.pdf?la=en
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Wycombewheeler on July 18, 2017, 05:53:02 pm
Seems viable, with the Exeter start people can book their trains to the start to suit their schedule without guessing ride time, and then ride home. Obviously those who live in the southwest have to train home, but I would imagine their would be fewer of them so less pressure on trains.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: mattc on July 18, 2017, 06:16:49 pm
Seems viable, with the Exeter start people can book their trains to the start to suit their schedule without guessing ride time, and then ride home.
Wish I'd thought of that!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: αdαmsκι on July 18, 2017, 06:20:55 pm
People manage to get home from York every year after the Easter Arrow.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Veloman on July 18, 2017, 06:33:33 pm
I think the challenge for some would be getting to the start as with an Arrow you start from where you want.  Getting to various parts of the UK from that London place would be like the finish at York with folk going in all different directions and not causing overcrowding on any particular route or spreading the time of return over a relatively long period.  Getting to Exeter might be a challenge depending on services available and travelling the day before might be the best option for some.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: grams on July 18, 2017, 07:17:32 pm
I'd be up for this! If you make the start time late enough people should be able to spread out over different trains. A quick check says that before noon on a Saturday there are 4 trains from Paddington, 2 from Waterloo, 5 from Bristol (and points north), plus loads from the west and the local branches.

It will presumably be smaller scale but look at the Dunwich Dynamo for an extreme example of how it turns out when quite a number of cyclists try to use a train at the same time.

If you believe some estimates, that's 3,000 people, and the local trains are only two trains once every two hours. I can't imagine it'll be on this scale!
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ian H on July 18, 2017, 07:41:54 pm
I bloody well hope not!
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ben T on July 18, 2017, 10:55:51 pm
Sounds interesting, I might do it - if I do I'd probably arrive Friday night and travelodge
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Tillapaw on July 19, 2017, 10:15:35 am
If it ended on the outskirts of London such as Surbiton or Wimbledon I'd be up for it but cycling into central London is not much fun.  Surbiton and Wimbledon have fast trains into Waterloo which don't have any restrictions for cycles at the weekend.  For those that head back to Exeter, it's 1 stop from Surbiton to Woking where you can change for the train to Exeter which saves on London Zone 1 ticket costs.  Other good places to finish would be Staines, Uxbridge or Epsom as they all have options for 24-hour controls but are less good for people who need to get a train back.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: bhoot on July 20, 2017, 11:17:40 am
If you are a Londoner surely it is a "Back but not out"?
Sounds interesting, having family in Exmouth makes it logistically easy.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ian H on July 20, 2017, 11:24:37 am
If you are a Londoner...

I'm not ;)

It's a working title only.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ian H on July 20, 2017, 11:39:33 am
Here's a provisional route. (http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/?lnk=http://ukcyclist.co.uk/routing/Exeter-London(4).gpx)
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Brakeless on July 20, 2017, 12:39:54 pm
If the date is good I'm in.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: nolongertries on July 20, 2017, 01:44:23 pm
If the date is good I'm in.

Me too. Great idea.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Greenbank on July 20, 2017, 04:58:33 pm
Here's a provisional route. (http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/?lnk=http://ukcyclist.co.uk/routing/Exeter-London(4).gpx)

Interesting.

Having done London to Exeter-ish in ~300km I was wondering what the diversion would be to bring it up to 400km.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: inappropriate_bike on July 23, 2017, 05:42:18 am
If the date is good I'm in.

Me too. Great idea.

Me three. I love one-way routes.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ian H on August 24, 2017, 08:41:11 pm
It's now a real event, next year on the 8th June.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Wycombewheeler on August 25, 2017, 01:41:12 am
Here's a provisional route. (http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/?lnk=http://ukcyclist.co.uk/routing/Exeter-London(4).gpx)
Have you ridden that route into London? The a5 is quite an ugly road. Not my first choice. It may be audax friendly in that it's straight so limits controls but busy road with many traffic lights ugly high streets.

I much prefer Staines Sudbury  Hampton Kingston Richmond park  Putney bridge embankment.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Veloman on August 25, 2017, 09:05:55 am
Here's a provisional route. (http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/?lnk=http://ukcyclist.co.uk/routing/Exeter-London(4).gpx)
Have you ridden that route into London? The a5 is quite an ugly road. Not my first choice. It may be audax friendly in that it's straight so limits controls but busy road with many traffic lights ugly high streets.

I much prefer Staines Sudbury  Hampton Kingston Richmond park  Putney bridge embankment.

Well if there are no controls required in the section you refer to then I'm sure you will be free to ride the route you mention.

Bravo to Ian for putting on the event.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Brakeless on August 25, 2017, 09:34:40 am
It's now a real event, next year on the 8th June.

Brilliant. Pretty certain I'll be in.

I don't want to be too negative but if Buckingham is the last control I won't be going anywhere near the A5 into London.  Im north London based and know these roads pretty well. I'll be heading slightly east and down the A1000 which is probably the best direct north/south route  in and out of London on a bike.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ian H on August 25, 2017, 09:50:01 am
It's now a real event, next year on the 8th June.

Brilliant. Pretty certain I'll be in.

I don't want to be too negative but if Buckingham is the last control I won't be going anywhere near the A5 into London.  Im north London based and know these roads pretty well. I'll be heading slightly east and down the A1000 which is probably the best direct north/south route  in and out of London on a bike.

I've yet to ride it, so there may be minor revisions to the route. 
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Pete Mas on August 25, 2017, 11:41:04 am
It's now a real event, next year on the 8th June.

Brilliant. Pretty certain I'll be in.

I don't want to be too negative but if Buckingham is the last control I won't be going anywhere near the A5 into London.  Im north London based and know these roads pretty well. I'll be heading slightly east and down the A1000 which is probably the best direct north/south route  in and out of London on a bike.

I've yet to ride it, so there may be minor revisions to the route.

Great idea. How about a 2pm start, and ending at a riverside pub, for example http://www.traveljoyhostels.com/untitled-col3 , which ha a hostel for sleeping above as well!
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ajax Bay on August 26, 2017, 07:29:52 pm
"How about a 2pm start?"
This might be fine for the Londoner/SEer who wants to go (a short way) home but doesn't really work so well for the majority of folk who will likely have to get home by train (eg a few hours back to Devon (say)) and for whom another night away (hostelling joy) is not agreeable.
Getting to Devon ready to start at noon is (as we've identified upthread) entirely doable: 2pm would just mean some additional hanging around (or give those with good train connections to Exeter a lie in).
The linked hostel reception is open 24/7 though so would work as the arrivee, even for those who get there at 4am, and having a focus for after ride recovery is a good idea (cf Marylebone Station).
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ben T on August 26, 2017, 10:29:28 pm
Of the midday ish start 400s I've done I found I prefer earlier to be better, then you're not twiddling your thumbs after breakfast waiting for the off
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Tillapaw on August 27, 2017, 09:10:02 am
With a 12pm start on a Saturday and on a 20 hour pace for the event, you would be on the A5 section around 7am.  The road would be pretty quiet then though there would be a lot of cars parked in the bus lanes.  12pm start gives the option of arriving by train on the day though I would probably travel the night before.  Full value riders would finish on Sunday by 3pm which gives a better chance of getting home if a train was needed.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Shell on August 27, 2017, 09:34:14 am
According to the calendar, start is mid-day Friday with a finish by 3pm Saturday.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: grams on August 27, 2017, 11:00:17 am
What are the audax hotels like in the Cotswolds?
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ian H on August 27, 2017, 12:46:20 pm
According to the calendar, start is mid-day Friday with a finish by 3pm Saturday.
Oh dear, have I cocked the date up?  Better go and look...

...now Saturday as intended.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ivo on August 28, 2017, 10:04:48 pm
We organised one in the Netherlands a few weeks before LEL. Relatively few riders participated but those that did absolutely enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Delph Cyclist on August 29, 2017, 05:37:55 pm
I've just completed an "out but not back 600", a DIY Perm finishing at York Station, as this has an easy regular train back over (well, under) the Pennines back to my start point.  It would have worked brilliantly if I hadn't overlooked the fact that there was Racing at York and there was no way I was going to get on those overcrowded trains with my bike.  I managed to get back home eventually using local stopping trains, one helpfully labelled as "Huddersfield via".  It turned out that the via was Halifax, which is a long way round.



Title: Re: Out but not back 400
Post by: Ian H on August 29, 2017, 06:15:24 pm
I've just completed an "out but not back 600", a DIY Perm finishing at York Station, as this has an easy regular train back over (well, under) the Pennines back to my start point.  It would have worked brilliantly if I hadn't overlooked the fact that there was Racing at York and there was no way I was going to get on those overcrowded trains with my bike.  I managed to get back home eventually using local stopping trains, one helpfully labelled as "Huddersfield via".  It turned out that the via was Halifax, which is a long way round.

Which reminds me I have to sort out a train for a 1200k return.