Food intake on a 200...

[Frank9755]

Don't rely on energy drinks.  They just train your body to burn carbohydrate and not fat.  Try eating smaller amounts more frequently. 

How does your body know that you have got carbohydrates from a drink or from solid food? 

Drinks are absorbed much faster than solids.

That's true - but not relevant! 
How does your body know the difference between carbs from a drink vs from something that you have eaten a bit earlier?

The answer is it doesn't.  And the idea that you can somehow train your body not to burn fat by giving it energy drinks is rubbish.  People have ridden RAAM with energy drinks.  How could they avoid burning fat doing that?

[Zed43]

I wouldn't do a long ride without taking in at least 100 calories per hour (eg 1 cereal bar or banana) as I don't want to lose muscle.

I guess that (muscle loss when not feeding) only occurs when you put in a fair amount of effort ie. not just poodling along?

Besides calories there's the mental bonus of feeling satiated, drinking only just doesn't do it for me.

As an alternative to bars, having roughly the same amount of calories (~ 100), I much prefer mini raisin buns (possibly a Dutch thing?)

[Bikeabilityman]

I find shortbread easy to eat and digest whilst on the bike. I can struggle to eat meals and sarnies into a long ride, which I put down to dehydration. I never drink enough.

[hellymedic]

Water and some coke.
I do not recommend it, you can do it, but it's not fun. This does rely on a surplus of Kummerspek tho...
J

I had no shortage of Kummerspeck but still needed to eat LOADS.
People vary enormously. Some can manage on fluids alone. I could only just do 80km without a feed.

At slow/relaxed pace, you might manage all day with minimal intake.

I'd suggest having a LONG break to allow you to digest and absorb food around midway.

Pre-feeding is important but I'm not convinced about carb loading per se. Suggest you eat well in general the week before your ride and make sure you skip no meals in the preceding 48 hours.

[hellymedic]

Drink (just water is OK) as much as you can, then when you feel totally bloated drink some more, then when you finish that have even more.

Drink water steadily no more than 200ml at a time (ideally). Imo the rest of this recommendation should not be followed and harks back to the influence of similar bad advice in the 80s, which the sports drink industry unsurprisingly fosters (substituting their sugary brand for 'water'). Drink to thirst, and a bit more. But everyone's an individual and their needs vary widely.

DON'T drink too much. Hyponatraemia (water intoxication) has killed some endurance athletes.

Drink a little before you are thirsty but NOT to the point of being bloated. Glycogen is stuck to lots of water that gets released as it is used.

[hellymedic]

Drink (just water is OK) as much as you can, then when you feel totally bloated drink some more, then when you finish that have even more.

Drink water steadily no more than 200ml at a time (ideally). Imo the rest of this recommendation should not be followed and harks back to the influence of similar bad advice in the 80s, which the sports drink industry unsurprisingly fosters (substituting their sugary brand for 'water'). Drink to thirst, and a bit more. But everyone's an individual and their needs vary widely.

I'm not advocating energy drinks.  My advice on drinking is based on weighing myself before and after rides.  What I've found is that I'm always a couple of kg lighter  (by 2-4 kg) at the end of a ride.  The advice I've followed for a long time is to drink before you are thirsty, if you get to feeling thirsty its too late.  I'll admit that I am a very heavy sweater.

You lose weight because every gram of glycogen is tied to around four of water. Use 400g glycogen and pee 1600ml of water...
You need some food, not gallons of excess water.

[hellymedic]

I find shortbread easy to eat and digest whilst on the bike. I can struggle to eat meals and sarnies into a long ride, which I put down to dehydration. I never drink enough.

Struggling to eat is usually because exertion shunts blood away from the gut and towards the muscles. Overheating doesn't help.

Resting improve gut function so longish meal breaks can be helpful.
Eat if you get a puncture or mechanical, before you get your hands dirty.
Eating a dessert before a main course can help your muscles refuel.

Milky drinks can provide food and fuel if you can tolerate them.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I find shortbread easy to eat and digest whilst on the bike. I can struggle to eat meals and sarnies into a long ride, which I put down to dehydration. I never drink enough.

Eating a dessert before a main course can help your muscles refuel.

Milky drinks can provide food and fuel if you can tolerate them.

That's really helpful to know.  I've often ordered a cake or pastry at a cafe to eat while I am waiting for them to cook me something, and that has correlated with a successful next stage.  Now I know why, and will remember to do this more. 

[Frank9755]

I wouldn't do a long ride without taking in at least 100 calories per hour (eg 1 cereal bar or banana) as I don't want to lose muscle.

I guess that (muscle loss when not feeding) only occurs when you put in a fair amount of effort ie. not just poodling along?

If you are using calories and not eating the energy has got to come from somewhere. 

At audax pace (fast or slow - it typically takes a similar number of calories to ride x00 km at fast or slow speed as rate and duration broadly even out) it mainly comes from fat but you can only burn fat if you have some carbohydrate to hand.  If you've exhausted what was already in your bloodstream and haven't eaten any, your body will just grab some from breaking down muscle.

What does that mean in practice? Exactly how little you can get away with eating, how much muscle you would lose from riding fasted at low speed for extended periods and if / how quickly your body could / would replace it afterwards, I don't know.  But, as I leave 50 behind, I'm reluctant to do anything that accelerates muscle loss.

[Frank9755]

DON'T drink too much. Hyponatraemia (water intoxication) has killed some endurance athletes.

My late first wife had a fit from hyponatraemia.  She had been drinking large quantities of water for a few days to combat dehydration which was a side-effect of some medication.

Luckily we were waiting in A&E at the time.  It was an effective way to jump the queue!

[Bikeabilityman]

I find shortbread easy to eat and digest whilst on the bike. I can struggle to eat meals and sarnies into a long ride, which I put down to dehydration. I never drink enough.

Struggling to eat is usually because exertion shunts blood away from the gut and towards the muscles. Overheating doesn't help.

Resting improve gut function so longish meal breaks can be helpful.
Eat if you get a puncture or mechanical, before you get your hands dirty.
Eating a dessert before a main course can help your muscles refuel.

Milky drinks can provide food and fuel if you can tolerate them.

Thanks fod that. I began eating shortbread at your suggestion some time ago. I have enjoyed McD shakes and flurries when I haven't felt like eating savoury, but sometimes I feel sick after. I have more mucus after milky drinks these days. Partly converted to oat milk.

[Pete Mas]

Just recently rode the Rowlands Ramble route - well over 200km with 2700m climb. Must admit to eating porridge before the start, a full cooked breakfast with toast and coffee at the first control, a sandwich at lunch, and 2 bananas and a few peanut snack bars as well... Plus energy drink in the bidons. This was the first time over 200km since the Spring, so I'm not fit...
I'm pretty slow these days, and over 60, and usually have a good appetite whilst cycling. Not wishing to hasten muscle loss is a good excuse for eating well..

[hellymedic]

Shortbread fingers are a cheap, compact, pannier-proof, temperature stable supply.
You really don't want something that melts, freezes into an unbitable lump, crumbles or turns into a goo that soils anything around.

[valkyrie]

One stick of Fruit Pastilles is okay for me. It’s a funny thing, on a 200 I can happily have three cafe stops, on a 1500 I probably won’t stop for a meal until I’ve got 200km under my belt.

[andyoxon]

Good replies.    I going to have to try a shortbread & twiglets* 200 at some point, since my typical exertion levels don't seem to work with general cafe food intake.   
Pork pies will also be given a miss, after the 'just sat in my stomach' experience on the last 161km I did.  My usual fluids these day are water with just enough cordial to give a bit of a taste.

*some sort of savoury snack

[sojournermike]

Pork pie power - but only 80km as an experiment;)

https://strava.app.link/tb8pRLLwuab

[Lightning Phil]

Jam and banana sandwiches hit the spot for me, as does buttered sliced banana cake

[drossall]

I may overdo it in normal times, with cafes open. On my last ride, I got round with a steak slice, some flapjacks and a banana or two, and was quite comfortable.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Yesterday was some cereal before a 200km loop, a panini and a flat white halfway round and two bidons of water. That was fine till a couple of kilometres from home when the legs started flashing a warning light.

Macaroni cheese, some fruit juice and a tea before heading out for another 100km in the cold. The legs worked pretty well for about 60km before slowly crawling home. Obviously I should have eaten a bit more earlier in the day.

[Fennec]

Yesterday I got round a 200 on the following:

Homemade scone + jam (50k)
Snickers bar (80k)
Half a cheese sandwich (110k)
The other half + another Snickers + a flapjack (140k)

Felt strong throughout. I have got round 200ks on less, but been close to bonk at the end. I have an idea that what you eat in the lead up to a ride is at least as important as what you eat on it. I had a good dinner Saturday night (veggie roast dinner) and breakfast (eggs on toast).

Presumably on-ride nutrition gets more important the longer you go.

People used to swear by malt loaf when I started Audaxing. I carried one religiously round a couple of 200s before realising it was a waste of time because I hate it.

[Paul H]

People used to swear by malt loaf when I started Audaxing. I carried one religiously round a couple of 200s before realising it was a waste of time because I hate it.

haha, I carry some oatcakes because I don't really like them, I know they'll still be be there if I need them, rather than eaten when I didn't.

[hellymedic]

Fatty food 'sits in the stomach' if the rider exerts heavily shortly after eating.
People vary enormously with this trouble.
Some folk are fine with chips at the Mariner's on the Brevet Cymru 400.
Some are not...

[zigzag]

did a 200 (212) yesterday - oatmeal before the ride, four bananas, two energy bars, one pack of chewy "bloks" and a bottle of water during. felt fine throughout.

[drossall]

Fatty food 'sits in the stomach' if the rider exerts heavily shortly after eating.
People vary enormously with this trouble.

I tend to want an hour before dinner on returning from even a 200.

[Kim]

Fatty food 'sits in the stomach' if the rider exerts heavily shortly after eating.
People vary enormously with this trouble.

It's a particular irksome failure mode, bonking on a full stomach.  The only thing you can do is stop and wait.  And try to get fitter so you don't need to eat as much.