Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?

[ian]

Given that during human evolution to date the main pressure was a surviving on as few calories as possible, and not the current surfeit of them, it's no surprise that we'll metabolise and use what energy sources we can.

[LMT]

Moral superiority is not an objective viewpoint, anyone can (and has) claimed that and gone on to commit what others would consider atrocitics. Somebody once tried to tell me I could get all my daily protein needs from broccoli, until I pointed out their g/kg confusion rendering their argument possible, but wholly impractical.

Eh? Statements that lack context yet ooze hyperbole adds nothing to the discussion. It's widely documented the harm that animal ag does to the environment and what the same products which all contain saturated fat and cholesterol does to the human body.

And you'd be amazed at how little protein the body actually needs. 5 percent is about right, more if you are into weight lifting and the like. I get all mine from Bananas, in fact if you look at the macros of most plant based fruits these are the type of macros you should be aiming for in your diet. Let mothernature show you the way.

[ElyDave]

neither does you're statement that vegans are morally superior, because you say so.

[closetleftie]

It has, it's called glucose.

Er, yeah OK. Whatevs.

Meanwhile - we haven't had a gratuitous keto food picture for AGES, so here's a picture of my lunch.

Macros: 15% Carbs, 15% Protein, 70% Fat, and just for LMT - 0% Animal 



ETA: You know what, he's right - I am feeling morally higher.

Looks lovely. Needs more GREEN, thobut. 

But slightly less flippantly now: doesn't look very much food to me. That's simply calorie restriction; just in a way that works for you. Adding some chick peas in place of the nuts would drastically change the macronutrient composition but you'd still lose weight. It's still calories in < out. (Of course, your particular satiety pathways may work better with fat, in which case crack on. I need protein and bulk, fat doesn't do it for me.)

[Chris S]

But slightly less flippantly now: doesn't look very much food to me. That's simply calorie restriction; just in a way that works for you. Adding some chick peas in place of the nuts would drastically change the macronutrient composition but you'd still lose weight. It's still calories in < out. (Of course, your particular satiety pathways may work better with fat, in which case crack on. I need protein and bulk, fat doesn't do it for me.)

Well - weight loss requires an energy deficit (which is subtly different to calories in < out because we're not cars), 'tis true. FWIW, MFP reckoned 758kcals, which is quite enough for lunch - any more and I'd be dozing off at the computer!

My understanding from experience and what I've learned from others is, you need to create the right hormonal conditions for encouraging use of stored fat (ie: chronically minimise Insulin), and then you need to use that stored fat (ie: exercise or at least, be active) without replacing it with more (energy deficit).

The veggie stir fry is a go-to meal several times a week as it's nice and filling without too much protein.

[simonp]

Nuts have a surprising amount of calories, the vast majority of the energy in that meal comes from the nuts unless there's added fats or oils.

A 758kCal lunch would be a bit light for me unless I was on a rest day.

[Ningishzidda]

Nuts have a surprising amount of calories, the vast majority of the energy in that meal comes from the nuts unless there's added fats or oils.

A 758kCal lunch would be a bit light for me unless I was on a rest day.

What about breakfast, second breakfast, elevensies, afternoon snack, tea, dinner, supper and a little something before bed?

[closetleftie]

See, 758 kcal is a lot for me, trying as I'm doing to stick to 500 kcal per meal. 4 or 5 meals/day. Lunch today was 250g salad, 250g chick peas, and a sharp vinaigrette with lemon and garam masala. And fruit. Much more carbohydrate but fewer calories. It's what works for any given individual that counts, I suppose.

[simonp]

I often skip breakfast, and require 3000kcal on training days to break even.

Today's lunch.

Lunch! by SimonP2006, on Flickr

Lunch! by SimonP2006, on Flickr

Lunch! by SimonP2006, on Flickr

Lunch! by SimonP2006, on Flickr

[Si S]

This discussion has mad me realise why I'm so grumpy when I get home in the evenings, typical intake during the day appears to be circa 850kcal, the commute requires about 700.

[L CC]

It doesn't matter, if you're running on fat.

[hellymedic]

I'm really not sure about that and have little evidence to back this statement up but I imagine/postulate that when I'm running on visceral/recently ingested fat (ie have eaten sufficient calories within past day or so) I feel fine but if I'm in overall calorie deficit and am living off stored subcutaneous fat I feel hungry/sleepy/grumpy...

[Si S]

It doesn't matter, if you're running on fat.

If I am it's entirely accidental, I doubt it though, although my diet has always been pretty much protein based I suspect there's too many carbs in it to have any sort of adaptation.

[simonp]

Today I had breakfast so ham egg and pea salad and yoghurt with granola and fruit compote.

[hellymedic]

Given that any excess protein is converted to carb by the liver, eating more energy in the form of protein is an expensive way of upping carbs...

[Ian H]

Given that any excess protein is converted to carb by the liver, eating more energy in the form of protein is an expensive way of upping carbs...

Careful now, you're veering dangerously close to actual science.

[ian]

Heh heh.

[ElyDave]

Ian's got it right, hands over eyes when science comes up.

[sojournermike]

Given that any excess protein is converted to carb by the liver, eating more energy in the form of protein is an expensive way of upping carbs...

But can be pleasant from time to time. No?

[hellymedic]

Given that any excess protein is converted to carb by the liver, eating more energy in the form of protein is an expensive way of upping carbs...

But can be pleasant from time to time. No?

My diet of steak, salad and strawberries is pleasant enough...

[Manotea]

Egg n  bacon for breakfast
Chicken salad for lunch (thighs dusted in paprika, cayenne, garlic, onion and salt, delicious)
Bag of nuts for snacks
Cauli and Brocolli bake in a creamy cheese sauce for supper.

Soon be time to fire up the slow cooker for some chilli.

Life is hell...

[Manotea]

I have discovered Keto Chocolate Mugcakes. With whipped cream.

[Chris S]

I have discovered Keto Chocolate Mugcakes. With whipped cream.

What took you so long? 

[ElyDave]

And where's the recipe?

[L CC]

There are loads. Google it.