Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: pompey phill on 29 November, 2008, 03:34:01 pm
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Hello all,
thanks for the replies.
Hummers I actually live in Fareham, and was planning on going down the track at the Mountbatten on a Wednesday night. I also work a funny shift pattern. What sort of rides do you do, how far/long ? as I would more than likely join you on some of your rides on my off days.
so I've just bought myself a new Garmin Etrex H. I will have to get used to using and planning routes and stuff. (any handy tips or hints would be much appreciated) I will read all the post's on this forum.
I just recently borrowed a USE Exposure Maxx light, for a week to use on my daily commute, and found the lowest setting was better than the Cateye single shot I use, the USE light is meant to have a run time of 24 hrs on low, which can be extended with the piggy back battery pack. but still not sure whether to go the dyno route ?
I will make a decision on bag nearer the time, after or during my training, which is to involve as many 300's and 600's as I can before the main event.
my shift work has made me very aware of sleep depravation, I know when and how to get an hour here and there. I often ride home from crawley north of Winchester, to home in Fareham after a night shift during the summer months.
thanks once again
Phill ;D ;D
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Hummers ....... What sort of rides do you do, how far/long ? as I would more than likely join you on some of your rides on my off days.
There are these (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11476.0) for a start plus on the 7th we have the Denmead Hilly (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9818.0).
The rides on Wednesday nights are about 30-40 miles long with a pub stop towards the end. Three of us go out on this.
There are also the CTC A rides on Sundays - leaving Cosham library at 9:15-9:30. They tend to be fast paced but sociable rides of 80 - 120 miles with elevenses, lunch and a tea stop somewhere. At least 4 local Audax riders of note go out on these rides and they would make good fill-in rides when there is nothing else on.
H
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What's the route? If it passes anywhere near the outlaws' place near Bedford I may be persuaded to brew up in a layby (and laugh at everyone).
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The route is listed here (http://www.aukweb.net/el/controls.htm).
H
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Hummers,
i'm guuted i can't make the Hilly on the 7 Dec as i'm on shift and can't get the day off, i see Els has said she's going to make it. i did the watership down with her last DEC, it would be good to see her again.
i can make the 14/15 Feb, but i'll have to see if i can get the 20/21 march off.
i would go out with the CTC but i tend to go out with the wheelers on sundays.
i do facy the wedensday night rides though ? where do you meet and finish ??
Phill
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The route is listed here (http://www.aukweb.net/el/controls.htm).
H
I might see you near the second control with a gross of Red Bull and a camping stove, then :)
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The route is listed here (http://www.aukweb.net/el/controls.htm).
H
I might see you near the second control with a gross of Red Bull and a camping stove, then :)
Milk, no sugar please.
H
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The route is listed here (http://www.aukweb.net/el/controls.htm).
H
I might see you near the second control with a gross of Red Bull and a camping stove, then :)
If you want to be a real hero, set up on the last evening/night. You'll see very few riders, but they will be extremely grateful :)
(I noted on PBP that the locals had pretty much lost interest by night 4 - can't say I blame them ... )
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Hummers,
i do facy the wedensday night rides though ? where do you meet and finish ??
Phill
We meet outside Cosham library at about 6:15-6:20. We ride until about 8pm to a pub (can be one of a number, usually about 10 miles out of Pompey) have a couple of beers then ride back again. I'm normally home by 10pm. The other riders are Dave Young and Paul Whitehead.
PM me if you fancy it this Wednesday.
H
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Hello folks. I've got a couple of questions about LEL too which I thought might be worth tagging on here rather than starting a new thread.
I've never done an audax ride before but LEL caught my imagination as a great way to see the country whilst having a really enjoyable bike ride :) . I am however an experienced cyclist who regularly does 100+ mile rides, and some long distance TTs (including a 12hr) so think I should be okay with the distance - although I am a big believer in not knowing you can do something until you've done it so am certainly not underestimating it, and will be getting the miles in.
The main area I'm a bit vague on is sleep, and lack of it. I gather it's quite possible to do long days and then tuck in for the night before setting off the next day, but I'm not sure if a more steady tick over and more frequent shorter 3-4 hour kips will suit me better.
Which is the more common approach? I'd guess the second.
Also it strikes me that a general build up of lack of your regular sleeping period and pattern is an area that could be a bigger hurdle than riding the distance. Have any of you suffered much from sleep deprivation on these sort of rides? Is there anything you could recommend as a way of training for this? Do I just do some tests with setting an alarm early and going out on the bike, come home, have a nap before setting out again and trying some dry runs in this manner?
Thanks.
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The main area I'm a bit vague on is sleep, and lack of it. I gather it's quite possible to do long days and then tuck in for the night before setting off the next day, but I'm not sure if a more steady tick over and more frequent shorter 3-4 hour kips will suit me better.
Which is the more common approach?
whatever works for you, really. You'll learn that when you ramp up the miles and start doing 600s
Note that there's a separate thread for start times & ride plans
Have any of you suffered much from sleep deprivation on these sort of rides?
It's a major problem on Paris-Brest-Paris, especially for the group that starts on the Monday night, because the time limits are tighter. I think most people who ride long events have suffered it, but I really struggle with it and I've got to the stage now where I'd not ride an event with a start time that leaves me sleep-deprived.
Is there anything you could recommend as a way of training for this? Do I just do some tests with setting an alarm early and going out on the bike, come home, have a nap before setting out again and trying some dry runs in this manner?
ride long events. try riding a 600 or two with minimal sleep. I'm not sure you ever train for it, but you'll get a feel for the issue and how much it affects you.
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What MV said; not sure where you live but El Supremo's events are very good training for waking up in the dead of night and going out on a long day's ride. They are also extremely well catered as is (afaik) LEL. And El S doesn't do Z stops.
Failing that any 0600 start 300/400/600 is ideal preparation. Apart from the last day of PBP I haven't seen much in the way of people grabbing sleep stops in the day; most seem to ride and ride and ride through.
I must say having multiple start times on LEL is confusing to a beginner; on PBP there were 2 choices; ride the whole 90hrs starting with no sleep (almost all the noobs took this) or ride it in 84 with some sleep the night before.
FWIW I've only ever ridden bits of the route; but starting at 0600 from Cheshunt and the same evening from Thorne (with some sleep somewhere before Scotland) is the best way to see and ride the northbound bit IMX.
Re equipment ; a handlebar bag and saddlebag should be adequate; as long as you've got room for a full repertoire of gear from short sleeves /shorts to full on waterproof and lighter gear for in between, don't forget overshoes; you will not even need to carry all of it all the way if you use the bag drop. I used just shorts and leg warmers for the bottom half on PBP.
Out of interest what would be a recommended schedule (assuming a morning start) for LEL for the average 85-90hr PBP rider? I know schedules have a habit of going pear shaped but it's nice to have a rough plan.
I almost want to do it now :)
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I would suggest trying to do an SR series if you can. That way you will find out what happens to /you/ when you put your body through this kind of thing.
I managed less than 2.5h sleep on PBP 07 yet I got round. Others might struggle with that level of sleep deprivation.
(q.v. Larrington et al)
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I would suggest trying to do an SR series if you can. That way you will find out what happens to /you/ when you put your body through this kind of thing.
I managed less than 2.5h sleep on PBP 07 yet I got round. Others might struggle with that level of sleep deprivation.
(q.v. Larrington et al)
I did the last LEL with 1+5+4+4 = 14 hours of sleep
PBP with 2+1.5+2 = 5.5 hours of sleep
I was more experienced for PBP. We have discussed sleep deprivation before. To micro summarise here are ten top tips:
1) Although you can't "bank" extra sleep you can ensure before an event you have no sleep "debt". So get early nights in the days before the event
2) Some research shows that 1.5 hours of sleep in a bed is the minimal needed for REM and real actual sleep. Personally I feel about 2 hours is good. I would aim to have 3 hours "in hand" ahead of the time the control closes to eat and sleep and eat again and then get going.
3) Sleep in a bed is "worth more" than sleep on a garage forecourt/haystack/phone box. So 30 minutes in a real bed beats an hour shivering on a bench.
4) Some people have a "low" point for sleep in the afternoon. This would not normally affect you, but if you didn't have enough sleep the night before...
5) Caffine and other stimulants work better if you lay off them before hand. About a week seems to be the minimal period. Caffine is not an alternative to sleep :)
6) Other ways to stay awake include putting in an effort ( adrenalin wakes you up ) or listening to loud music on an mp3. And of course talking to other riders
7) If you feel really like you are about to fall asleep on the bike then a 10 minute nap will stop this dangerous occurance. You can do this in almost any circumstances as after 10 minutes you don't cool down (much)
8) Space blankets and/or various portable sleeping bag things are often used. On PBP I did all my sleeping (except 10 mins on a haystack) in a silk sleeping bag liner in the caffeterias at the controls.
9) If you are hallucinating then it is usually time for an impromptu sleep break. With me the road markings turn into little people. Or I see people who aren't there reflected in puddles.
10) If you are riding with a partner and they are faffing around or eating in a cafe or repairing their bike then use the opportunity to lie down and sleep
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I got through PBP with an Energiser head lamp a Cateye EL 530 and 2 Hella marker lights (which I used rather than the 530 in heavy traffic; yes it was like that) and at dawn and dusk which were both pretty late/early; and did not change the AA cells at all. As Drone says; probably not worth investing in too much expensive lighting for the one ride.
I gave up caffeine for 3 weeks beforehand; but it was mostly adrenaline that kept me awake, even after 40 hours at Loudeac. In hindsight it would have been worth queuing up for a bed (presumably not an issue on LEL)
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I did LEL In 2005 with breaks of 5, 8, 8, 8 hours. Subtract about 90 mins from each of those numbers to get the time I was asleep. I completed the ride with about 10 hours to spare.
Riders who haven' t done a SR Series before and/or need some clues and encouragemet may find this article useful, something I wrote after I prepared myself for my first Spooner in my first year of audaxing
http://www.mseries.plus.com/HowIBecameASR.pdf (http://www.mseries.plus.com/HowIBecameASR.pdf)
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I did LEL In 2005 with breaks of 5, 8, 8, 8 hours. I completed the ride with about 10 hours to spare.
He also did PBP in 81hrs; definitely one of the 'Volio school' :)
Did anybody here (or indeed anywhere; mentioning no names) nudge the top end of the finishing time window in 2005? it's only fair to get the whole spectrum. FWIW I was only about 40mins inside the time for the top 400 on a DIY; with no proper sleep (admittedly at a 14.3 not 12 minimum)
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Did anybody here (or indeed anywhere; mentioning no names) nudge the top end of the finishing time window in 2005?
We met the usual suspects going South at Lincoln, right on the time limit, when we were going North with just one control to go to finish...more details in my RR ;)
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Did anybody here (or indeed anywhere; mentioning no names) nudge the top end of the finishing time window in 2005?
We met the usual suspects going South at Lincoln, right on the time limit, when we were going North with just one control to go to finish...more details in my RR ;)
O:-)
We didn't really scratch the time limit then. I had enough time to go to Lincoln centre for extra cash and some shopping and catching up with the group well before London.
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Indeed
But Mr Beauchamp startled us by announcing he was going to bed. After the control had closed and in the middle of the morning :)
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Thanks for all the reply's,
they have put my mind to rest. I will try riding the long rides I have planned with the barley, and I think I'm going experiment with lighting set ups, and hone it all down to the final set up just prior to the LEL.
Thanks Phill ;D
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At Mel's request the LEL equipment & LEL preparation threads have now been split, so she can try to address the issues separately.
If I've messed up and left a post in the wrong thread (it's not a directly straightforward split) let me know.
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I did LEL In 2005 with breaks of 5, 8, 8, 8 hours. I completed the ride with about 10 hours to spare.
He also did PBP in 81hrs; definitely one of the 'Volio school' :)
Did anybody here (or indeed anywhere; mentioning no names) nudge the top end of the finishing time window in 2005? it's only fair to get the whole spectrum. FWIW I was only about 40mins inside the time for the top 400 on a DIY; with no proper sleep (admittedly at a 14.3 not 12 minimum)
As I recall, Ron Goodrum had neck trouble towards the end and Paul Welch and Ray Kelly stayed with him almost risking their own rides to help him finish.
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As I recall, Ron Goodrum had neck trouble towards the end and Paul Welch and Ray Kelly stayed with him almost risking their own rides to help him finish.
I was with the Willesden bus for most of the time since Lincoln.
Ron Goodrum was sweeped up by them when I was catching up on them after staying a bit longer at a control. When it became clear that we were risking our own rides by staywing with Ron we phoned to the final control. Rocco gave permission to Paul and Ray escorting Ron home via a well lit road, obviously using the special clause in the international rules regarding assitance to someone in need. The rest of us used the official road. Mark Brooking was guiding this gruppetto. Mark started in the first group with his tandem partners. So when we were out of the very tricky navigation bit I told Mark that I'd take care of the stragglers in the group so he could speed on to the finish which he caught in time. We had more time and also finished with some time in hand.
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That would have been Lynn Francoli on the tandem with Mark :thumbsup:
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That would have been Lynn Francoli on the tandem with Mark :thumbsup:
Indeed
Part of the gruppetto somewhere south of Lincoln:
(http://fotoalbum.dds.nl/ivo_m/lel2005/large/0730.jpg)
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Hows your preperation going ?I only ask because mine is definately off track,today I got dropped on the local club run,something that has not happend for over a year,I have neglected my diet,and put on 3 kg.The good new is is looks like I am going to cover about 200 miles this week.Its a bit demoralizing thinking about LEL when I am strugling on 50 mile runs.My first 200k ride is on feb 8th,perhaps I will feel more positive after that.
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I think being dropped by some fast movers in December has little to connect it with a ride that's going to happen the following July. Get a plan for the first half of 2009 that will get you to a peak in July, and get to work on it once it's 2009.
Thank goodness for adaptation :thumbsup:.
For me, I've begun carbo loading now. Oh hang on, I'm not riding LEL...
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a 50 mile run tells nothing indeed about LEL. There's an abundance of 'training champions', you don't have to belong to them.
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I have neglected my diet,and put on 3 kg.
Best shoot me now...
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OK sorry for whinging !In 2009 I will-
Reduce weight to 80kg.
Ride my bike a bit(about 200 miles a week)
Do first 200 in feb,Do a few more 200s
First 300 in April.
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Hows your preperation going ?I only ask because mine is definately off track,today I got dropped on the local club run,something that has not happend for over a year,I have neglected my diet,and put on 3 kg.The good new is is looks like I am going to cover about 200 miles this week.Its a bit demoralizing thinking about LEL when I am strugling on 50 mile runs.My first 200k ride is on feb 8th,perhaps I will feel more positive after that.
Feb is soon enough. I got ready for 2005 LEL by riding my first 200 in Feb 05, don't worry.
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Thanks M Series,I will try,and get my long training rides in from now on.
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Thanks M Series,I will try,and get my long training rides in from now on.
no problem, happy to help. My preparation hasn't really started. Taking some time off to rest and recharge my batteries. I will get jaded if I do too much now and then have to pull back at the wrong time and try to salvage something in the summer.
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I have neglected my diet,and put on 3 kg.
Best shoot me now...
My Christmas trousers are telling me that I am going to be struggling round the Willy Warmer. In fact, I shall think I shall call it the Willy Wobbler!
H
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Here is my training plan, such as it is. The ideas are that in order to show any kind of training effect takes about 10 weeks and that a taper is a reduction in volume, preceeded by a heavy week.
The aim is to ride LEL in 96 hours. Last time it took me 106 hours so I think that is plenty ambitious enough.
1) Jan/Feb/March ... do at least one 100 mile ride a month. From Feb 10th start doing at least one fast hilly ride a week ( 10 weeks before Elenith )
2) Apr do local 200+Elenith then take it easy for a week or two.
3) May/Jun/Early July...try and ride 400km+ distance every other weekend (Bryan Chapman is approx 10 weeks before LEL)
4) Early July...ride 400km+200km commute in a week+300km next weekend = 900km week. Then have a week off. Weekend before LEL ride a fast 200k.
Problems with this plan are
a) every other week isn't really frequent enough. But I have a life
b) not sure how well the taper will work. But usually a proper ride the weekend before a bigger ride works better than a rest
c) no real way of assessing "progress". I guess when we get a better idea of the LEL route I can feed the numbers into my magic spreadsheet and work out what sorts of speeds I need to be doing.
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There is an existing thread called 'LEL Preparation' for this sort of thing, y'know.
H
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we should have an 'LEL non-training plan thread' ;D
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There is an existing thread called 'LEL Preparation' for this sort of thing, y'know.
H
oh ok. I expect the admins will delete this then
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oh ok. I expect the admins will delete this then
Or tag it onto the end.
But while you're talking...
10 weeks. That makes sense although you are doing loads more training than I am planning to get away with do.
I am following the PBP training plan = one ride every other week buliding up to the 600 in mid to late May and then 200s (and the odd 300) from then onwards.
I can do no more.
H
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At least one Audax of 200km or more a month (my planned rides are in a separate thread).
Jan is the Willy Warmer
Feb will be a 200
Mar will be the Haslingfield 200 and the Dean 300
Apr will be the Elenith 300
May will be the BCM 600 and a DIY 400 from London to Cornwall (worthy of AAA points!) via Dartmoor
June will be a DIY 200 and then the Midland Super Grimpeur 300
July 4/5 will be the Dun Run made into a DIY 400 plus another 100 or 200 the week before LEL (one of the Hertford Two/Four/Six counties rides)
The only rides on gears will be the MSG and the DIY 400 to Cornwall. The rest (including LEL) will be on fixed.
Commute 4 or 5 days a week (flat 13km each way but I'll be looking to extend it to include occasional lap(s) of Richmond Park).
If I get a spare 4 hours over the weekend I'll look to do a lap of the Surrey Hills (~1000m climbing in 50km, fun on fixed!).
That's about it. Aiming for a 106 hour LEL, ideally with a 200km-ish final day starting at 10am and finishing at about 8pm.
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Provisional planning:
january/february: Speedskating (racing) and a bit of cycling.
March: 2x 200km (including checking my own 200) + organising a 200
April: 2x 200 and 2x300 (including checking my own 300)
May: 1x 400 and 1x600 (600 is checking my event)
June: some shorter rides and organising my 600
July: Rijswijk 24 hours and club holiday cycling along Oder and Neisse rivers.
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Howdy Scottish cyclist,s
I shall be in your country two or three months prior to your flagship event LEL
Hope to ride this long distance event
Could some of you kind Scottish folk advise on some long ride,s to keep fitness level,s up
This is a great web site RUSA rider,s should follow your lead for info on cyling related matters
Look forward to your help
So long now TEXAN TOURER
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Howdy Scottish cyclist,s
I shall be in your country two or three months prior to your flagship event LEL
Hope to ride this long distance event
Could some of you kind Scottish folk advise on some long ride,s to keep fitness level,s up
This is a great web site RUSA rider,s should follow your lead for info on cyling related matters
Look forward to your help
So long now TEXAN TOURER
From aukweb.net (http://www.aukweb.net/cal/index.htm)
Filtered by Scotland and greater than or equal to 300
300 03 May Ballachulish The Half Light
06:00 Sun BR £10 Graeme Wyllie
300 06 Jun Kirriemuir The Snow Roads
06:00 Sat AA4.75 [4800m] BR £8.00 Alex Pattison
600 27 Jun Galashiels The Borderline 600
06:00 Sat BR £4.00 Lucy McTaggart
D 400 27 Jun Galashiels Nae Bother to Us 400
06:00 Sat BR £4.00 Lucy McTaggart
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Have you thought of doing the End to End, i.e. Lands End to John O'Groats? Are you here for work or is this an extended holiday? The End to End is about the same distance as the LEL.
Damon.
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I am in the UK on extended leave and visting my Scottish roots
Something longer might be more adapt to my training plan,say 1000km or so
I shall keep visting your web site
Off to view the game Super Bowl plus Bud and popcorn
Chat soon
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I am in the UK on extended leave and visting my Scottish roots
Something longer might be more adapt to my training plan,say 1000km or so
I shall keep visting your web site
Off to view the game Super Bowl plus Bud and popcorn
Chat soon
There are no 1000km calendar events this year however there permanent routes.
There is a 600km event called the Daylight which is run in PBP years but that can also be done as a permanent IIRC.
For 1000km permanents, there is York-Oban-York and Preston-Aberdeen-Preston.
Personally I won't be doing anything above 600km before LEL.
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Thanks for your advice
I would consider something longer maybe 1500km or less even an organized permanent.
As before with LEL a long ride might benifit my endurance
I might consider this 8 somereel in the land of haggis and goog whiskey
What entry level is required
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I would consider something longer maybe 1500km or less even an organized permanent.
As before with LEL a long ride might benifit my endurance
Best thing for endurance is loads of longish rides.
Two or three 600s with recovery time between will be more than enough. You don't need to ride a 1500 to be able to ride a 1400.
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Thanks for your advice
I would consider something longer maybe 1500km or less even an organized permanent.
As before with LEL a long ride might benifit my endurance
I might consider this 8 somereel in the land of haggis and goog whiskey
What entry level is required
Mr Tourer, the entry requirements for our Eightsome Reel are not too strict: a liking for Magners and a chorus of Kum ba yah at bedtime are all you need. Oh, and experience of curtain-based sleeping arrangements would be a help. If you have a strong-riding female companion, well that would boost the team morale. :thumbsup:
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I do have a bivy bag from last trip to Europe during my college years
My liking for The Devils Buttermilk was second to none while at Queen's
Hence I took up biking during the fall of my final year to reduce my bmi
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You don't need to ride a 1500 to be able to ride a 1400.
If you did you'd need to ride a 1600 to prepare for the 1500...
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You don't need to ride a 1500 to be able to ride a 1400.
If you did you'd need to ride a 1600 to prepare for the 1500...
That's what the 1001 miglia italia is for. But what 1700 event did people do to prepare for that?
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This could go on for a while ...
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Hmm, think I need to give this 'training plan' more thought. 170km in the Peak District yesterday taught me a few things:
- go to bed earlier
- drink less booze
- buy some nuun
- get more miles in
- do some hill repeats
Planned rides:
March: 2 x DIY 200 (one flat, one hilly)
April: Hell of the North Cotswolds (100km), Elenith
May: Brevet Cymru, Bryan Chapman
June: Irish Mail, DIY 300
July: DIY 200 km, LEL
Plus at least 120km of commuting per week.
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One of the French riders started his preparation this weekend, although cut short a bit by the temperatures: Le blog de Cricri le cyclo - Liste des derniers articles parus sur cricri-le-cyclo.over-blog.com (http://cricri-le-cyclo.over-blog.com/archive-02-22-2009.html)
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Any idea what software package he has used for this ? (Tried zooming in but not enough detail)
(http://idata.over-blog.com/2/47/39/68/sorties/20090222/20090222.jpg)
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Polar Precision Performance: Polar Heart Rate Monitor Software (http://www.heartmonitors.com/polar/polar_software_heart_rate_monitors.htm)
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Planned rides:-
Mar: 3 x 100km, 1 x 150km
Apr: 3 x 100km, 1 x 200km, 1 x 300km
May: 1 x 200km, 2 x 300km, 2 x 400km + 10 Under the Ben (MTB ENDURO)
Jun: 1 x 400km, 2 x 600km
Jul: 1 x 200km, 1 x 400km, 1 x 600km, LEL (Subject to entry - on waiting list)
Aug: MGM 1200
Sep: Bugger All!!
Its a bit ambitious and some of these won't happen but I have something to aim at.
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I agree that looks rather ambitious. Do you really want to be doing the LEL having done a 400 and 600 in the two weeks previous? One of the problems with ramping it up so close to LEL will be the sleep debt you are likely to be in.
If you are doing these rides for 'training', I would be tempted to do enough long ones (400+) just to let your body know how it copes with 24 hours of cycling, and then stick to 200s and 300s, perhaps training yourself to do them reasonably fast with short stops at controls.
My plan, or as close to plan as I ever make, is to stick to 200s and 300s, do one or two 600s in May and June and keep July nice and easy, with some pootling around France at the beginning and then just my normal commute.
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I'm just planning to do 200 and 300s, the BCM 600 (can't find a 400 that fits my calender at the moment), Dun Run and some FNRttCs.
I'm going to try and mix it up a bit bikewise, I don't want to spend all my time on my audax bike, as I don't want to risk nerve damage, by putting pressure on the same areas all the time.
Going back to the PBP threads, the number of numb toes, fingers and 'other bits' does worry me a bit.
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I agree that looks rather ambitious. Do you really want to be doing the LEL having done a 400 and 600 in the two weeks previous? One of the problems with ramping it up so close to LEL will be the sleep debt you are likely to be in.
If you are doing these rides for 'training', I would be tempted to do enough long ones (400+) just to let your body know how it copes with 24 hours of cycling, and then stick to 200s and 300s, perhaps training yourself to do them reasonably fast with short stops at controls.
My plan, or as close to plan as I ever make, is to stick to 200s and 300s, do one or two 600s in May and June and keep July nice and easy, with some pootling around France at the beginning and then just my normal commute.
I did a 53hr 1000km 20 years ago. In the run up to that i did 2 x 400 + 2 x 600 in consecutive weeks. I found that by not touching the bike from one weekend to the next I recovered sufficiently to do the following weekends ride in style (i.e progressively faster).
I'm hoping that a similar approach will yeild similar results this time.
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I'm just planning to do 200 and 300s, the BCM 600 (can't find a 400 that fits my calender at the moment), Dun Run and some FNRttCs.
I'm going to try and mix it up a bit bikewise, I don't want to spend all my time on my audax bike, as I don't want to risk nerve damage, by putting pressure on the same areas all the time.
Going back to the PBP threads, the number of numb toes, fingers and 'other bits' does worry me a bit.
I "lost" my fingers for 6 months after PBP - got as far down the line as seeing a specialist nerve doctor.
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I'm going to try and mix it up a bit bikewise, I don't want to spend all my time on my audax bike, as I don't want to risk nerve damage, by putting pressure on the same areas all the time.
Going back to the PBP threads, the number of numb toes, fingers and 'other bits' does worry me a bit.
You would be better off getting your Audax bike and associated equipment to fit you right, that is, so you don't get numb toes, fingers etc, then spending time getting used to it so that it feels right and proper for LEL. Switching bikes is just avoiding the problems rather than addressing them which is what you should be doing between now and the event.
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On 600s, I've had buzzing/loss of feeling on my little fingers. I think that can only be stopped by regularly changing position. So I might as well ride a different bike for the July FNRttC and the dun run etc. I'll be riding a much heavier bike, sit up and beg bike as 'training' ;D
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Not sure I could be persuaded to agree that you finger problem 'can only be stopped by regularly changing position' but I will not argue the point. Being on a bike for 90 hours, having you body in that position can't really be simulated, you just have to get used to it by doing it. I have got used it by riding the same bike in the lead up to the big events. Of course it's up to you. My view of those who had problems during PBP was that they didn't prepare well enough.
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Having seen on DVD the pitiful sight of PBPers struggling to reach the arrivee, holding their heads up by hand or using rudimentary hand-crafted neck braces (including spare tube wrapped round the forehead and tied astern somewhere), what does the panel suggest can be done to prevent this eventuality happening to me on LEL? I have never suffered any neck pain before, but distances beyond 630km are an unknown quantity and will remain so until I reach Eskdalemuir.
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Leave your TT bike at home, and ride with a more upright stance?
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That's a tricky one Nuncio, that Mrs Miles woman might be able to help but I doubt it. If you can do 630km I would say you will be OK, just keep doing what you are doing. Not everyone suffered on PBP, I finished in fine fettle as I did on LEL in 2005. There were a lot of people doing PBP in 2007 who were not well prepared in my opinion.
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The only time I've had neck problems was on the PBP, between Carhaix and Loudeac (about 750 km). After an hour's kip (ie a change of position for a while), I was right as rain, as it were.
LEL has more opportunity for longer stops, so I don't anticipate any probs. The only person I recall having neck problems on LEL was a bloke from Devon riding a recumbent (in 1997 I think).
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On the BCM I found wearing my helmet with head torch during the day tired my neck, so during daylight hours I put my headtorch in my pack. I was amazed that something that weighed so little could make so much difference.
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Maybe you should try riding without a helmet too.
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I'm a bit of a chicken, and when it comes to rides where I might get an attack of the dozies, I will opt to wear a helmet.
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On 600s, I've had buzzing/loss of feeling on my little fingers. I think that can only be stopped by regularly changing position.
I effected a considerable improvement by fitting MarSAS bar foam.
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On 600s, I've had buzzing/loss of feeling on my little fingers. I think that can only be stopped by regularly changing position.
I effected a considerable improvement by fitting MarSAS bar foam.
I'm trialling MarSAS at the moment (Audax model). 300km next Sunday (followed by two days of 200km) will be the first real test although I've also got tri-bars so I'll spend a considerable amount of time plodding through Lincolnshire with the weight on my forearms rather than palms.
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re finger numbness / neck pain
In 2005 I rode a couple of 600s + LEL on my yellow bike. This has very high handlebars and is made of steel. 28mm tyres
2006 I did a couple of 600s, and a 400. Two long rides on a Al framed Orbea racing bike with 25mm tyres. The frame on this bike is a bit too big for me
2007 all PBP qualifiers and PBP. bike was custom Ti with 28mm tyres
2008 I busted my collar bone but I did manage a 600 later in the year
Anyway, if you disregard the undoubted fact that I must have been getting used to riding a long way over this period, I did long rides on 3 bikes
They all had brooks and lots of handle bar padding. I think that handlebar padding is good and it might help with road buzz. But it won't help with neck pain
On the yellow bike I had occasional numbness in my hands but this passed in few weeks/days
On the Al Orbea i had worse numbness and some shoulder pain
On the custom Ti I had no issues of this sort whatsoever
What I'd guess from all this is that the frame fit is the most important factor.
Although I used 3 different frame materials and the Al frame was worse, I think this was due to the terrible fit of the Orbea and my body
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Having seen on DVD the pitiful sight of PBPers struggling to reach the arrivee, holding their heads up by hand or using rudimentary hand-crafted neck braces (including spare tube wrapped round the forehead and tied astern somewhere), what does the panel suggest can be done to prevent this eventuality happening to me on LEL? I have never suffered any neck pain before, but distances beyond 630km are an unknown quantity and will remain so until I reach Eskdalemuir.
Some training of the neck muscles may be helpful. Positioning your computer monitor on the floor so that your position when working is close to the cycling position is one possiblity. Another idea would be to add ballast to a cycling helmet to help strengthen the muscles. The ballast would need to be reasonably aerodynamic, easy to attach to the helmet with tape and readily deformable in the event of an impact. I would suggest bananas, they would also be useful as an emergency food source and the hat could double as a Carmen Miranda style fancy dress costume.
Google Image Search (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Carmen_Miranda_in_The_Gang%27s_All_Here_trailer_cropped.jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Carmen_Miranda_in_The_Gang%27s_All_Here_trailer_cropped.jpg&usg=__TvxGTsRhw-7Ih8a4CkF_Scs9fjk=&h=293&w=300&sz=106&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=MM16UvmF-I5KlM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCarmen%2BMiranda%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4HPEA_en-GBGB229%26sa%3DX)
Damon.
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Although I think you need a way of getting rid of the bananas if you are too full to eat them all...
Exploding banana mask (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b48_1223279289)
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Thanks jwo. That's my nightmare sorted for tonight, then.
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Although I think you need a way of getting rid of the bananas if you are too full to eat them all...
Exploding banana mask (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b48_1223279289)
I can foresee a H&S issue. That's not just an exploding Banana Mask it's an S&M Exploding Banana Mask.
Damon.
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What I'd guess from all this is that the frame fit is the most important factor.
the frame,saddle, pedal and handlebar positions relative to the rider. The shape of the bars is important too. Padding bars is only addressing the symptoms IMO and not the real problem
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it starts with the tyres and their pressure IMO. Then the frame geometry and its material and last but most importantly the contact points with the rider, i.e. handlebars, saddle and pedals. Everything else is a toss up between comfort or convenience and weight.
If you split up the bike as above it's much easier to achieve your ideal bike.
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Problem is, as you get tired - more and more of your body weight goes through your arse and hands because less is offset by your efforts on the pedals. I don't see any way round this, and it's probably worse if you are heavy as there will be more load on those contact points.
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Problem is, as you get tired - more and more of your body weight goes through your arse and hands because less is offset by your efforts on the pedals. I don't see any way round this, and it's probably worse if you are heavy as there will be more load on those contact points.
Surely the moral here is to lose some weight.....?
And wear well padded shorts with plenty of backside cream.
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Found a Lifeventure silk sleeping bag liner in the last day of a Milletts sale for a third off. Only 110g. Perfect for sleeping at controls. :)
Going to have a trial pack today (in prep for next week).
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Problem is, as you get tired - more and more of your body weight goes through your arse and hands because less is offset by your efforts on the pedals. I don't see any way round this, and it's probably worse if you are heavy as there will be more load on those contact points.
Surely the moral here is to lose some weight.....?
And wear well padded shorts with plenty of backside cream.
I do feel I am teaching female grandparents techniques of egg juice extraction!
The most important aspect of pressure area care is
TO GET ALL OF THE WEIGHT OFF THE PRESSURE AREA!
(Actually, I thought the worst pressure sores were often found on thin people.)
Padding of shorts and saddle
Weight reduction
Local hygeine
Creams and lubricants
are all secondary...
...but they help (some people)
They may be counterproductive in that they do not train people to get the weight off the saddle.
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Losing weight will help of course ([structural] damage is proportional to the fourth power of the loading), but if the loss is significant, e.g. Fat Bastard to Whippet, the fit of the saddle is effectively altered and can allow the saddle to apply pressure to the prostate area (not in all cases, I understand).
So, if getting slimmer (losing fat arse) beware of complications.
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As part of my own LEL Preparation I'm planning to do a DIY 300 from Carlisle-Dalkeith-Carlisle. To get the distance up to 300, I may have to detour through Gretna or Lockerbie, so my question to anyone who lives near the
"Cumberland Gap" is:-
has the M6 extension now been completed and (more to the point) is there now direct Gretna-Carlisle access on the now much quieter A6?
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The A6 stops in Carlisle surely, I understand that there is now an all purpose road from Gretna to the A7/M6 junction.
Damon.
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The A6 stops in Carlisle surely, I understand that there is now an all purpose road from Gretna to the A7/M6 junction.
Damon.
Yes, of course, it's the A74 not the A6 I'm interested in. That all-purpose road alongsde the M6 (or perhaps it's M74, or A74M) is what I'm after, without having to divert through Longtown. Part of the challenge of plotting a DIY route is to get it over the nominal distance, but not by too much
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Yes, of course, it's the A74 not the A6 I'm interested in. That all-purpose road alongsde the M6 (or perhaps it's M74, or A74M) is what I'm after, without having to divert through Longtown. Part of the challenge of plotting a DIY route is to get it over the nominal distance, but not by too much
It now changes from the M6 to A74 M at the Border, the all purpose road is on Google maps and seems to start at the turn for the Kingstown industrial Estate close to the A7 Junction North of Carlisle.
Damon.
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By the way, if you are aware of randonneurs who think they need to get a
long distance brevet under their belt before LEL, they might want to
consider a totally unsupported 2000k brevet on Vancouver Island – Ultimate
Island Explorer 2000 Vancouver Island Schedule (http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/schedule/sch_vi.html)
Scenic seaside, wilderness forests lakes and rivers. Almost guaranteed to
see a few black bears along wilderness stretches, and deer around suburban
Victoria. ! I am the organizer on behalf of the BC Randonneurs Cycling Club.
Anyone interested should contact me directly.
Cheers …. Ken
Ken Bonner
2609 Orchard Avenue
Victoria, British Columbia
V8S 3B2
CANADA
Tel: 1-250-598-4135
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I am totally unfamiliar with the areas passed thro’ on LEL to the south of the Wahingborough control. So I have agreed a 400k DIY with Danial to cover Lea Valley to Washingborough both up and down. The sole purpose of this ride is route familiarisation. I plan to ride over the Easter weekend starting the ride from St Neots where I have booked camping. The controls agreed for this ride ( after much negotiation!) are;
St Neots, Ingoldsby, Wasingborough, Ingoldsby, St Neots, Cheshunt, St Neots
Danial tells me this is 400k spot on according to Autoroute. I have used the LEL stages posted on Bikely by Thunderthighs to give me an idea of what the actual route will be (Thank you Thunderthighs) but what I really need is a proper ‘blow- by-blow’ route sheet as close as possible to what the actual route will be. I don’t have a GPS.
Can any kind person help me? I don’t suppose these southern stage routes change much from one LEL to the next so a photocopy of a previous LEL route sheet might do the trick.
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From here: London-Edinburgh-London (http://www.aukweb.net/el/index.htm)
Click on "LEL Controls/Route" in the sidebar.
Then at the bottom of the page click on the blue "LEL Route". Note that it says "Provisional Only".
That gives you a page with links to two Google Docs spreadsheets containing the current northbound and southbound routesheets.
[EDIT] Note that the LEL route doesn't actually go through Ingoldsby, so you'll need to detour to go there.
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Thanks Greenbank. I just read down the thread and discovered the existence of these provisional routes. Dooh!!
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From here: London-Edinburgh-London (http://www.aukweb.net/el/index.htm)
LEL route doesn't actually go through Ingoldsby, so you'll need to detour to go there.
What's in Ingoldsby anyway for control purposes?
I'm just packing my bags for this weekend: Sunday Start of Summertime 200, Monday Hertford-Sleaford DIY 200, Tuesday Sleaford-York DIY 200 so I'll have a good look at the northbound LEL route
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As part of my own LEL Preparation I'm planning to do a DIY 300 from Carlisle-Dalkeith-Carlisle. To get the distance up to 300, I may have to detour through Gretna or Lockerbie, so my question to anyone who lives near the
"Cumberland Gap" is:-
has the M6 extension now been completed and (more to the point) is there now direct Gretna-Carlisle access on the now much quieter A6?
There is a relief road that is now fully open that you can follow from the North of Carlisle, it goes past Asda and then runs parallel to the A74 and will take you to Gretna direct, (subject to a few R and imm L). It is a bit windy at times though!!
When are you planning this?, I am going to do the same route as a 300.
W
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When are you planning this?, I am going to do the same route as a 300.
24th May as a DIY 300 (Carlisle-Dalkeith-Carlisle). It's the day after the Clarten 200 from Longtown so I'll make a weekend of it (Late May Bank Holiday) and do the 2 rides as back to back training, along with Martin Newstead
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From here: London-Edinburgh-London (http://www.aukweb.net/el/index.htm)
LEL route doesn't actually go through Ingoldsby, so you'll need to detour to go there.
What's in Ingoldsby anyway for control purposes?
I'm just packing my bags for this weekend: Sunday Start of Summertime 200, Monday Hertford-Sleaford DIY 200, Tuesday Sleaford-York DIY 200 so I'll have a good look at the northbound LEL route
If you like fish and chips, there's a very good chippy in Sleaford.
Follow the B road north towards the roundabout with the 15/A17. Go through town and on the way out, heading north it is on the left. It's called, "Scoffers," and is easily missed. If you pass Mc Donals on your right, you've gone too far and will almost be on the roundabout.
I don't remember Ingoldsby being much use as a control. You're in the desert there. There may be something at Corby Glen. There is a service station at Colsterworth, which I think is 24 hour on the A1/A151.
Otherwise it's Grantham.
There could possibly be a pub in Ingoldsby, but I wouldn't count on it.
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From here: London-Edinburgh-London (http://www.aukweb.net/el/index.htm)
LEL route doesn't actually go through Ingoldsby, so you'll need to detour to go there.
What's in Ingoldsby anyway for control purposes?
I'm just packing my bags for this weekend: Sunday Start of Summertime 200, Monday Hertford-Sleaford DIY 200, Tuesday Sleaford-York DIY 200 so I'll have a good look at the northbound LEL route
The first route prediction I looked at went through Ingoldsby which looked like a substantial place .
But your right - there's no way to control at Ingoldsby. Changed my plans. Controls will now be
St Neots Oundle Washingborough Cheshunt St Neots. Oundle is only 5k's or so off route and just brings the shortest overall distance up to 400. Thanks for pointing this out. Enjoy your weekend :)
Just by the way while looking for reliable places to control I noticed two SNAX 24's within a couple of miles of each other on-route at Wansford (A47 West of Peterborough). Might be handy.
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Given my late start to the season, here's my hastily crafted plan:
2009-05-10 Fred Whitton Challenge 180k
2009-05-23 Raid Essex 200k (as a DIY 300? don't tempt me...)
2009-06-06 The Snow Roads 300k (perhaps)
2009-06-13 The Irish Mail 400k
2009-06-27 Midlander Super Grimpeur 300k (makes the Fred Whitton seem easy)
2009-07-04 Offa's Dyke 600k
2009-07-12 Greater Garboldisham Grovel 200k
2009-07-26 London-Edinburgh-London 1400k
How hard can it be?
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My preparations will include having a physical. I know it's not required, but I've never put myself through such physical stress before. Added to this I've recently learned that my younger brother has had heart problems (family history of heart conditions, father and maternal & paternal grandparents). I think it's all a mild case of paranoia, but I'll feel better having an MOT.
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35 quid (it's a charity) gets you an ECG and ultrasound echo check (if necessary) with Cardiac Risk in the Young. (As long as you're under 35 years old).
Cardiac Risk in the Young the UK SADS charity raises awareness and offers support for SADS (http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/)
The clinics are few and far between though. They're in Colchester on the 16th May although you may well be in Chepstow then.
Sandhurst (nr Guildford) on the 4th July.
I went back in February and I've got a lovely letter from the cardiologist to say that I'm perfectly normal.
Given your family history you should be able to get this done on the NHS via your GP.
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35 quid (it's a charity) gets you an ECG and ultrasound echo check (if necessary) with Cardiac Risk in the Young. (As long as you're under 35 years old).
Cardiac Risk in the Young the UK SADS charity raises awareness and offers support for SADS (http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/)
The clinics are few and far between though. They're in Colchester on the 16th May although you may well be in Chepstow then.
Sandhurst (nr Guildford) on the 4th July.
I went back in February and I've got a lovely letter from the cardiologist to say that I'm perfectly normal.
Given your family history you should be able to get this done on the NHS via your GP.
Thanks for that, but a year too late :( (and I'll be in Chepstow :-\ ). I see my GP a week from Wednesday to have a chat about LEL and what my concerns are so he can decide what tests he'll ask for (in any) in addition to cardiac.
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35 quid (it's a charity) gets you an ECG and ultrasound echo check (if necessary) with Cardiac Risk in the Young. (As long as you're under 35 years old).
Cardiac Risk in the Young the UK SADS charity raises awareness and offers support for SADS (http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/)
The clinics are few and far between though. They're in Colchester on the 16th May although you may well be in Chepstow then.
Sandhurst (nr Guildford) on the 4th July.
I went back in February and I've got a lovely letter from the cardiologist to say that I'm perfectly normal.
Given your family history you should be able to get this done on the NHS via your GP.
Thanks for that, but a year too late :( (and I'll be in Chepstow :-\ ). I see my GP a week from Wednesday to have a chat about LEL and what my concerns are so he can decide what tests he'll ask for (in any) in addition to cardiac.
I think you should qualify that to physical tests..... ;D
(I am assuming your sanity is not under question?)
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35 quid (it's a charity) gets you an ECG and ultrasound echo check (if necessary) with Cardiac Risk in the Young. (As long as you're under 35 years old).
Cardiac Risk in the Young the UK SADS charity raises awareness and offers support for SADS (http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/)
The clinics are few and far between though. They're in Colchester on the 16th May although you may well be in Chepstow then.
Sandhurst (nr Guildford) on the 4th July.
I went back in February and I've got a lovely letter from the cardiologist to say that I'm perfectly normal.
Given your family history you should be able to get this done on the NHS via your GP.
Thanks for that, but a year too late :( (and I'll be in Chepstow :-\ ). I see my GP a week from Wednesday to have a chat about LEL and what my concerns are so he can decide what tests he'll ask for (in any) in addition to cardiac.
I think you should qualify that to physical tests..... ;D
(I am assuming your sanity is not under question?)
No question about it - I am loony. Evidence: I am voluntarily cycling from London to Edinburgh and back in no more than 116hrs. :P
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35 quid (it's a charity) gets you an ECG and ultrasound echo check (if necessary) with Cardiac Risk in the Young. (As long as you're under 35 years old).
I had an echo scan last week - pretty amazing to see your heart valves pulsing and your blood spurting through the heart in real-time colour 3-D!
I'd been sent because my GP was concerned that the spikes on an ECG were very high - turns out I have an extremely healthy heart with powerful muscle contractions (almost certainly due to cycling), so all clear.
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That which does not kill us makes us stronger. Or so I'm told.
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That which does not kill us makes us stranger stronger. Or so I'm told.
FTFY ;)
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My preparations will include having a physical. I know it's not required, but I've never put myself through such physical stress before. Added to this I've recently learned that my younger brother has had heart problems (family history of heart conditions, father and maternal & paternal grandparents). I think it's all a mild case of paranoia, but I'll feel better having an MOT.
Saw my GP a few weeks ago. We had a good chat about family history (including recent developments), what I've been doing physically and what I'm planning. He did some basic checks and found nothing troubling, though he did suggest I consider shedding a kilo or a few (yeah, I know, I know...). He also sent me off for blood tests. I checked on those results this week and all is well. :)
Now I just need to do lots and lots and lots of climbing. :-\