LED room lighting (again)

[Cudzoziemiec]

Back to CFLs for a moment (we don't have a thread on them, as far as I can find), last night one failed quite unpleasantly. It had been flickering for a few days nights but we hadn't got round to replacing it yet, then last night it went completely dark apart from a couple of cm near the base. And it got very hot. So hot the room was filled with a horrible burning plastic smell. I took it out and put it out in the garden to cool down, it was that horrid. This morning I see the plastic near the tube is yellowed and has even begun to melt. It didn't feel hot when I took it down though. One of those funny coiled coil shapes, Prolite brand. I think it might have been a freebie from somewhere but I'm not sure. I shall replace it with an LED.

[hellymedic]

CFLs are the work of Stan!
LEDs are getting nicer and cheaper. Got my last by mail order (can't remember whether it was Amazon or ebay) . They weren't too pricy given their claimed longevity.
They have been brighter than anticipated and U'd suggest getting a LOWER wattage than you might think you need.

[Crumbling Nick]

I've recently replaced lots of CFLs with LEDs from Toolstation. Surprise was that the light output from the CFLs had deteriorated so far without becoming obvious. I've been irritated by the failure rate of CFLs, therefore many of ours are not that old. The lighting in our living rooms is chandeliers/wall lights with lots of small "bulbs", so deterioration ought to be obvious  .

I'm not sure whether CFL lumens are the same as LED lumens. Obviously, CFLs take time (a minute or more) to warm up, so are not best choice for downstairs toilet. However beam angle seems to be a more important parameter for LEDs than CFLs; our ceilings don't reflect light very well & I suspect that's normal.

Current R.O.T. for LEDs is 120-130 lumens/watt for "omnidirectional" bulbs. Less than 100 looks less than best technology. However there are some interesting bulbs with about 180 degrees beam angle that work well. I've picked up several 4w, 330 lm bulbs from Poundland to replace 40w tungsten filament bulbs in odd cupboards.

I'm still waiting to see if the life of the LEDs is as good as the hype would lead me to expect.

Edited - 33lm for 4w would have been filament bulb territory  .

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

I have bought some LEDs from the local  Asda which has quite an impressive range of own brand bulbs.   

[hulver]

I've had several GU10 LED bulbs fail quite recently. They were all bought around the same time.

They were these https://www.amazon.co.uk/SuperLEDTM-PERFECT-REPLACING-HALOGEN/dp/B007Z1ZOZI?ie=UTF8&redirect=true, linked to a few pages back in the thread.

On some there were black spots on the LEDs, most just started flickering badly before they failed. One failed in a very spectacular "BANG!" + blue smoke fashion.

I took a couple apart to see what the failure mode was. They all have under-speced capacitors in them. The one that failed with a BANG was full of fluffy capacitor inards. The caps are rated at 250V, when they should be rated at 400V. No wonder they've been failing.

[Kim]

That's awful!  Designed for leftpondian electricity and mislabelled, perhaps?

[hulver]

No, they're labeled as UK lights. Just cost cutting I think.

Certainly won't be buying them again.

I've got some IDEA LED GU10's in there now. They're doing an adequate job, although they're not as bright.

[hellymedic]

CFLs are the work of Stan!
LEDs are getting nicer and cheaper. Got my last by mail order (can't remember whether it was Amazon or ebay) . They weren't too pricy given their claimed longevity.
They have been brighter than anticipated and U'd suggest getting a LOWER wattage than you might think you need.

Thread necromancy.

The claimed longevity of these lamps (30,000 hours) is a LIE!

Three of the four lamps in my kitchen have now failed in less than a year.

They have lasted around 10% of the stated life.

I am underwhelmed.

[Diver300]

CFLs are the work of Stan!
LEDs are getting nicer and cheaper. Got my last by mail order (can't remember whether it was Amazon or ebay) . They weren't too pricy given their claimed longevity.
They have been brighter than anticipated and U'd suggest getting a LOWER wattage than you might think you need.

Thread necromancy.

The claimed longevity of these lamps (30,000 hours) is a LIE!

Three of the four lamps in my kitchen have now failed in less than a year.

They have lasted around 10% of the stated life.

I am underwhelmed.

I've seen that happen. Many LED lamp manufacturers quote the life of the LEDs, and ignore the other electronic components, mainly electrolytic capacitors, that don't last as long as the LEDs, especially when used near their limits.

Some LED lamps will run on DC, and I have used lights with failed capacitors, that won't run on normal AC, by adding a rectifier and smoothing capacitor to the fitting.

[hellymedic]

I have neither fitting nor power source to run these on DC. My kitchen is not very damp as most cooking is in either the microwave or gas oven. I would not term conditions here 'extreme.

[Canardly]

I imagine this is why there is such a wide price range out there between branded lamps and generics. We are now fully LED with a mix of Phillips and Screwfix's finest. The lastest being some 5w candle lamps. No failures as yet. We will see.

[Kim]

I have neither fitting nor power source to run these on DC. My kitchen is not very damp as most cooking is in either the microwave or gas oven. I would not term conditions here 'extreme.

Nevertheless, conditions for the capacitor may be extreme, if it's in a badly-engineered lamp running close to its thermal^[1]/electrical limits, and probably of a cheap knock-off brand to begin with.

Same problem that afflicts wall-wart power supplies with tedious regularity.  Even those from manufacturers who ought to know better.

(And of course even when you're armed with an ESR meter, soldering iron and a selection box of 400V electrolytics, you're often defeated by glue or snappy plastic.  Bastards.)


_{[1] The electronics may run substantially cooler if the lamp is used pointing upwards.  Manufacturers tend to be cagey about this.}

[hellymedic]

You will not be surprised to read that my lamps face downwards, into the room.
I suppose the fact that the fittings are recessed into the ceiling may make them run hotter.

Shame really; my kitchen lighting was close to optimal for me: bright, acceptable colour, no noticeable flicker.

It was all filament lit when barakta paid a visit but these were replaced by LEDS when they failed.

I function well in my kitchen; pity the lights are disappointing.

[Jaded]

We've got 9 LED lights in our kitchen, 4 years of use no failures. I expect them to run at least 6 more years without failure as that is what they are guaranteed for.

[hellymedic]

Have you kept the boxes so you can return them?

I don't think I did...

[ian]

Ten of the luminous little buggers clinging to our kitchen ceiling supping on pure 240v snappy juice. No failures in three years. There's a zillion more in the hallways and bathrooms, but I think they run on DC. The bathroom ones definitely do. None of them have failed either. LED Shop branded ones.

[Jurek]

I've just ordered 8 for the hallway.
The 'Porthole' style lights won't accommodate anything other than a pair of candle bulbs.
They've stopped doing the conventional filament ones (which were crap / no longevity whatsoever) and replaced them with a lower wattage, but brighter (and hotter) halogen version. These have the effect of toasting the ceiling plaster and rendering it incapable of retaining the screws that fix the lamps to the ceiling.
I'll see how I get on with the LED variants (Phillips)

[hellymedic]

I have now emailed the Long Life Lamp Company Ltd, who on Googling, seem to operate from an office within a mile of where I am sitting (though their contact phone number is on the Uxbridge exchange) and I will see what transpires.
David has replaced the failed lamp.

[velosam]

I have been quoted about £10 per light to convert the house to LEDs (as I am currently running halogens, MR16s I think).

I have around 52 bulbs in the house.  Additionally some of them don't work as I think the transformers are blown.  I have no idea how to change or fix them, as they seem to be tucked away in the ceilings.

Is it worth doing the conversion at that price?

thanks

[Canardly]

Simple maths. 7w per fitting plus lots of life as against 50 watt and 2000 hours for halogen and much lower temperatures surrounding the lamp. Leccy around the 16p per kw/h last time I looked but I could be out of date. Make sure is a good brand. Often transformer failure is due to excess lamp heat. You could however have the new ones run off the mains if they are accessible.

[Jurek]

Screwfix prices on Phillips LED bulbs are ~ 1/3rd of those I've seen elsewhere.

[velosam]

I am being thick.

I have 52 of these blighters - MR/ GU16 in my house and want to change them.

For some reason some of the transformers are burnt out.

Am I correct that I simply buy new transformers and new holders and plug  them in or can I buy led bulbs that simply replace the MR/GU16?

thanks

[David Martin]

If your transformers are blown then you may need new trasnformers. It may be a good idea to replace them with more appropriately specced ones anyhow. Usually plug and pray for GU16.

[velosam]

So can I just stick these in

http://www.screwfix.com/p/mr16-led-lamps-gu5-3-345lm-4-8w-3-pack/7303K?kpid=KINASEKPID&cm_mmc=GoogleLocal-_-Datafeed-_-Electrical%20and%20Lighting&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=CMHM3va0itACFUyNGwodTlQPOg



Also the transformers are

[David Martin]

yes