"You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It'll be interesting to see how many of these 'non-club' clubs are around a decade from now.

[Hot Flatus]

Loads, I expect.

Its really refreshing to ride with a bunch of recent-ish cycling converts who are full of enthusiam and arent having it crushed out of them by some hairy-nosed arsehole who thinks it is his/her (but usually his) place to tell them how to ride, what gear they should or shouldnt use, and bore them to death with their opinions.

Unfortunately, somebody in our club invited a 'coach' to turn up and mentor us on a club ride recently. The guy was an arse who thought it was appropriate to ride up to people and shout at them. His 'advice' contributed to a crash a couple of weeks later. Nope. The sooner that breed dies out the better.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

We'll see. Of course 'non-club' clubs were not also created in the '80s, '90s, etc...

[Hot Flatus]

Cycling wasnt 'normal' in the 80s/90s.

Nor were the cyclists.

[Peter]

Nice dig at people with Asperger's, there.

[Bianchi Boy]

I have had to moderate my riding in recent years. I was one of the fast ones who wanted to go out a tear my legs off each week. Well a slow decent into heart trouble and the fitting of two stents later I have gone down and up (although not to the fast group). There is pressure in all riding groups and the best groups are these where there is a common purpose. Some of the best rides I have done have been at either end of the spectrum speed wise. I have never been cross with been left behind and if I am feeling myself hanging on I inevitably make it known that I will be dropped and not wait for me. When I go I ride slowly for a while so that the group does not feel like I am trying to re-join.

I subscribe to the expression "The best friends you meet are those on the road" what I take this to mean is they are the sort of people who you just end up riding with. On a long Audax, LEL, PBP .... I have often found myself riding with the same people for long periods. There is no effort in keeping up or feeling that you need to slow down.

With group riding at a club it is important that the group enjoys the day. There have been occasions where a rider who is either much too fast or too slow comes along. Both of these cause trouble and the group as a whole is less happy. I know I have been guilty of both in my time and try not to let this happen.

BB

[Julian]

I would vastly prefer to be in the slow group because - even when I'm at my fastest - I am slow by club standards. If I am going to push myself I don't want an audience, and I find the pressure of knowing people are waiting for me almost intolerable.

I didn't really enjoy the club cycling I did despite it being a very welcoming club. At best I got a sort of grim satisfaction out of enduring it.

[mrcharly-YHT]

When I first came to the UK I went out riding with Otley Club. I was only interested in social riding, so I rode with the social club. They had a few groups, and split them up by distance rather than speed. I went with the longer distance group. They just went at the speed of the slowest rider.

A long summer day, lots of tea stops, my introduction to "cyclist's cafes" that dished up tea cakes and mugs of tea on the grass by the Aire, double egg and chips. My first century and I didn't even realise it until we got back to Otley 10 hours later "How far did we ride" I ask, leader consults his cycle computer "oh, about 116miles". I was astounded, I'd never ridden further than 70 in a day.
They were lovely, I rode out with them pretty much every weekend I could for the next year, year round.

That's a proper club, doing proper club riding.

[citoyen]

When I first started riding with the club a few years ago, the Sunday ride would start en masse and then split up into smaller groups along the way. The good thing about that was you could choose which group to join according to how you felt on the day. I was generally in the second group, but that would sometimes split down into two smaller groups if there was a big turnout. There was no set pace, it just depended on the make-up of the groups and you chose the group that best suited your pace. It was treated as a proper group ride - you worked together, you helped each other, you didn't constantly change the pace. And there was one section of the regular route that we used for formal paceline practice. It was only in the last few miles before the cafe that it got at all 'competitive'.

It all seems to have gone to pot since then and some of the more experienced riders I used to like riding with don't come out on a Sunday any more. There's now a 'fast' group that treats the club ride like a race and sometimes the riding can get a bit erratic, if not downright dangerous. There are certain riders I always try to stay well clear of if I go out with that group. Not only will they not wait for you if you get dropped, sometimes it seems like they are really trying to drop you.

I generally ride with the 'steady' group, which is perhaps not quite quick enough for my liking but a lot more sociable.

[Dibdib]

Nice dig at people with Asperger's, there.

OK, I'll bite. Care to elucidate on this a little? I'm assuming you're referring to Flatus's description of the near-mandatory club know-it-all who feels it necessary to offer "suggestions" where they're not requested or wanted, sucking all of the fun out of what is (for some people at least) a nice bike ride, not training for a race.

If so - sure, some of these can be indicators of someone being on the spectrum - but far more likely IME they're just a bit of a wanker.

[Hot Flatus]

No, hes not. Ive edited the word 'aspergic' out of the sentence "hairy-nosed aspergic arseholes". It is this to which Peter is objecting.

[Dibdib]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification - and apologies to Peter.

[Kim]

What I observe is that clubs often have " ability" groups. I observe that these effectively split a club into factions, and can lead to some riders becoming elitist. The experience of older, but often very experienced, riders does not get passed on. The " faster" rides become races, and are often the only riding some riders do. I know- I hear riders defining their riding objectives as " being at the front of the Saturday ride"

This (combined with more obvious things like simply not being good enough, or not caring about being competitive, or having the right sort of kit, and so on) is certainly what's put me off having anything to do with 'proper' cycling clubs.

[Peter]

No, hes not. Ive edited the word 'aspergic' out of the sentence "hairy-nosed aspergic arseholes". It is this to which Peter is objecting.

Thanks, Flatus.  It can seem like a small thing and maybe I could just have let it go, as I'm pretty sure you don't really think like that.  It's all a bit close to home for me and I have the same problem with people who describe themselves as "a little OCD", as if it was an mild distinguishing mark.  I am not personally Aspergic, nor do I suffer from OCD, but they are both a big problem in my family.   

Thanks again.

Peter

[contango]

I'm curious to see how people feel about the "shame" of being put in a "Slow" / "Less Fast" whatever group on social/club rides.

As I see it the main pros and cons are:
- it's perhaps insulting to be put in a "slow" group,
- if you're put in a mixed ability group, it can be demoralising to be always at the back on climbs etc (i.e. the narrower the ability range, the less far off the back you will be!)

I dont expect to reach any grand conclusions, or prove anything - it's just a bit of random popular opinion surveying. A toe in the water.

_{(Disclosure: I have been in both situations, and have also been the fastest, bestest, top dog alpha male in a group   )}

Thanks!

Split by expected speed. It's nothing to do with "shame" and everything to do with what can reasonably be expected of everybody. I've been on group rides where I've lost the will to live because the group was rolling at barely half the speed I'd hoped, and I've been on group rides where it was all I could do to stay with the group on the climbs, and then the climbs left me depleted to the point I struggled to keep up on the flats.

I'd rather be given the choice between working hard to stay with a group that's going to be a little faster than my comfort zone, or taking an easy ride with a group that's going to be slower than I'd choose. Either way I'd always ride with some means of navigation (my preferred option is a GPS) so that if I were to decide not to complete the ride with the group for any reason I can let the organiser know and find my own way back. The only time I ever did that was when a group ride described as a "challenge" averaged less than 8mph and after six hours (including a 90 minute break for lunch) I needed to get home much faster than the group's pace.

I think I'd be annoyed if someone merely looked at me and assumed I was slow (I am a heavier rider but unless a ride is going to be very hilly can usually maintain a moving average of 15-18mph). If a group was about to do mountain racing I'd be less bothered at the assumption that my fat ass larger frame doesn't go up mountains in a hurry.

[giropaul]

Loads, I expect.

Its really refreshing to ride with a bunch of recent-ish cycling converts who are full of enthusiam and arent having it crushed out of them by some hairy-nosed arsehole who thinks it is his/her (but usually his) place to tell them how to ride, what gear they should or shouldnt use, and bore them to death with their opinions.

Unfortunately, somebody in our club invited a 'coach' to turn up and mentor us on a club ride recently. The guy was an arse who thought it was appropriate to ride up to people and shout at them. His 'advice' contributed to a crash a couple of weeks later. Nope. The sooner that breed dies out the better.

I wouldn't support the shout at " coaching" , but how does such a group learn the safe etiquettes of group riding, without some experienced input - how to sit tight on a wheel, how to ride in a string, how to do proper through and off safely?
There is a grouping not that far from me not unlike that which you describe, that locally are credited with keeping an A and E going, so regular are their crashes.

[Polar Bear]

Not being fast I prefer a mixed group regardless of ability.   I suspect the faster bods prefer otherwise. 

[Hot Flatus]

Loads, I expect.

Its really refreshing to ride with a bunch of recent-ish cycling converts who are full of enthusiam and arent having it crushed out of them by some hairy-nosed arsehole who thinks it is his/her (but usually his) place to tell them how to ride, what gear they should or shouldnt use, and bore them to death with their opinions.

Unfortunately, somebody in our club invited a 'coach' to turn up and mentor us on a club ride recently. The guy was an arse who thought it was appropriate to ride up to people and shout at them. His 'advice' contributed to a crash a couple of weeks later. Nope. The sooner that breed dies out the better.

I wouldn't support the shout at " coaching" , but how does such a group learn the safe etiquettes of group riding, without some experienced input - how to sit tight on a wheel, how to ride in a string, how to do proper through and off safely?
There is a grouping not that far from me not unlike that which you describe, that locally are credited with keeping an A and E going, so regular are their crashes.

Ive been riding with the group since June and up until mid -october, after the 'coaching', there had been no crashes. The 'coach' encouraged people to ride bar to bar in a tight formation. Totally innappropriate advice for a bunch of people who only ride together once a week, if that.

What I have noticed in the group I ride with most is that peolle learn from others without anything being said. There is no through and off nor chaingang. Its a bunch of people riding in loose pairs having a chat mostly.

[Redlight]

...some hairy-nosed arsehole who thinks it is his/her (but usually his) place to tell them how to ride, what gear they should or shouldnt use, and bore them to death with their opinions....

I went out with a group like this during the summer. The "leader" was trying to get a group of riders who had not ridden together before to ride two abreast and wheel to wheel, while sitting at the front on his own, often holding some of us back on the climbs.  Every now and gain, he'd drop back and shout at some of the riders for letting gaps develop between the pairs, then ride furiously back to the front.   In the end, a few of us told him that we preferred to climb at our own pace and that we'd wait at the top. Sometimes, it wasn't safe to stop at the exact summit so we'd ride on a bit further until there was somewhere that we could pull off the road - he took this very badly and berated us for not waiting where we had said we would.

At the cafe stop, I decided that I'd had enough and would head home by my own route.  Unsurprisingly, I wasn't the only one and we had a very pleasant ride back to London.

[Veloman]

Surely, the term group/club/social ride is different things to different people and the rides require different protocols.

My 'club' rides fall into either a training ride for those seeking fitness or race training, tempo ride which is a brisk ride, and a social ride which is the gentlest ride and allow much social interaction.  Might be classed as the A/B/C group rides.  I might start with the training ride and inform them I'll be dropping off at some point (early!) and they will not wait because the protocol is the ride is training and preparation for racing.  The faster the speed the more able a rider is expected.  I've seen riders be told to ride with a slower group to 'learn the ropes' which is what used to happen as the younger riders started on the slowest rides.  The whole point of the social ride is to be sociable and wait for everyone.  Tempo rides would vary and often at some point after the cafe stop the rules changed to something more asking to the race training ride where if you were dropped then unlucky.  Folk knew the rules and would choose accordingly.  Choice by ability and fitness also made for safer riding.

[yoav]

Interesting reading since my earlier reply. Let me tell you my experience. I originally started cycling with a club in the 70's as a teenager. The club rides were very much look after everyone, old and young, learn to ride as a group and arrive at the cafe together. Sometimes there were 2 groups but they all worked the same way. After my teens, I never rode regularly with a club as I moved around a lot. My previously learnt skills allowed me to join group rides as and when without issues. Until now.

I joined a new club that was set up here. It started as a Facebook group but gradually became more organised. However, its members include quite experienced and fit cyclists as well as complete beginners to road cycling. On the first club ride I went on, about 30 cyclists turned up. The 'leader' set off with everyone else in their wake. Within half a mile, the riders were all over the place. It was obvious that nobody, not even the leader had any concept of what group riding was about. As it was my first time, I kept quiet and rode along chatting to riders who had self organised into small groups of 3-4. The leader to stop several times to allow the rest to catch up. At the end, no seemed bothered (except maybe me) with this lack of organisation.

A few weeks later, I volunteered to lead a ride. Teach them a few things about group riding, or so I thought. About 20 riders turned up. I set off in front at a steady pace. Within half a mile, 4 obviously faster riders overtook me and we never saw them again. At the first downhill, many of the slower riders also overtook me but I overtook them on the following uphill. I stopped for a regroup and tried again. This time I was overtaken again but then they went the wrong way at a junction as they didn't know the route. The remaining riders with me continued to the pub and the rest eventually turned up. So much for my leadership.

So, am I leaving this club? No, I think I'll consider it as a great social experiment. Can a disparate group of cyclists self-organise without any meaningful leadership or structure? There is no committee, no rules and no membership fees. But we do have a jersey.

[Hot Flatus]

AKA  A bunch of people out having fun. 

[ElyDave]

What I observe is that clubs often have " ability" groups. I observe that these effectively split a club into factions, and can lead to some riders becoming elitist. The experience of older, but often very experienced, riders does not get passed on. The " faster" rides become races, and are often the only riding some riders do. I know- I hear riders defining their riding objectives as " being at the front of the Saturday ride"

This (combined with more obvious things like simply not being good enough, or not caring about being competitive, or having the right sort of kit, and so on) is certainly what's put me off having anything to do with 'proper' cycling clubs.

My reason for stopping riding with the Ely club was not far removed from this.

An element evolved that looked down their nose at those who weren't out on ever Saturday AND Sunday ride, and who didn't time trial with dedication every week and into the winter.  Unfortunately this included the Club Captain, who rather than putting a stop to it was one of the active instigators. 

With my working patterns I'm never going to do that, and I don't want to time trial every week. Plus those that seemed to take delight in trying to drop me every time I stopped to test blood glucose (having explained why I needed to pre-ride) I rapidly came to the conclusion "fuck this for a game of soldiers".  I now ride on my own, at my pace which may or may not be faster than a club run on any given day, stop where I want and chose my route on a whim.

This is partly why I started audaxing as well, as those folks tend to take a much more laid back approach to this stuff.

[Hot Flatus]

Quite.

My introduction to old school clubs was in the 80's, time-trialling. There were some nice people but there were also some obnoxious egotistical arseholes. I was quite surprised at just how obnoxious they were. Put me right off.

In my club there is only one obnoxious arsehole and its me 

[Whitedown Man]

This is partly why I started audaxing as well, as those folks tend to take a much more laid back approach to this stuff.

+1