[HAMR] womens record attempt - Kajsa Tylen Jan 1st start

[giropaul]

Maybe I'm being too simplistic, and I hope I don't upset anyone, but in the end these are BICYCLE records.
I can get my head around drafting/non drafting etc.
BUT ... why can't the people overseeing (?) all of this get that a recumbent is not a bicycle as usually (or UCI etc as the world body) defined.
Nothing against recumbents, but they do offer a significant advantage, especially when routes are carefully planned. I can't turn up at my local time trial and compete on a recumbent (unless there is a specific class), and I can't road race on one, but it appears that I can attempt some records on one, as things now stand.
There is an end to end record for bicycles, and another one for recumbents. That makes sense, at least to me.

[Kim]

Maybe I'm being too simplistic, and I hope I don't upset anyone, but in the end these are BICYCLE records.

No they're not, they're cycling records.  No restriction to two wheels.  No restriction on geometry.  Some rules about fairings, and it seems until yesterday, Guinness had rules about commercial availability and multiple machines.

A non-specific specific class.

If you want to go out and set a specific annual mileage record for UCI-compliant time trial bikes, or partially faired recumbent tricycles, or whatever, go ahead.

If you want to run a geometry-agnostic time trial, I'm sure the BHPC will help you out.



(PS. Recumbent bicycles are bicycles.)

[clarion]

I said a while ago that I expected an attempt using purely recumbents would be most likely to be successful.  Previously, I would have said there should be separate records for uprights and bents, but Kurt used both, which is a tactic I hadn't anticipated (though it is very sensible), so they can't be disentangled now.

[Kim]

Separate classes make sense, but as with the UMCA's age category, it soon becomes a case of everyone-gets-their-own-record.

Broader categories do encourage innovation, as Kurt has demonstrated.


I'm not sure the aerodynamic advantages of an unfaired recumbent are as dramatic as people tend to assume, at the power levels Kajsa appears to be riding at.  Not to disregard the other benefits, of course.

[clarion]

I think the benefits would be more apparent at the men's record pace.

[TigaSefi]

So..... Tommy's record was perfectly ok to be ratified with some postcards from postoffice etc but in an age where we have GPS and stuff, it harder to ratify it? Am I missing something?

[mrcharly-YHT]

So..... Tommy's record was perfectly ok to be ratified with some postcards from postoffice etc but in an age where we have GPS and stuff, it harder to ratify it? Am I missing something?

gps files can be faked

[SoreTween]

So..... Tommy's record was perfectly ok to be ratified with some postcards from postoffice etc but in an age where we have GPS and stuff, it harder to ratify it? Am I missing something?

Tommy's record was ratified using appropriate technology of the day reinforced by random witness verification.
Whereas:
The UMCA rules use appropriate technology of the day reinforced by random witness verification.
The Guinness rules are subtly different in that they use a smaller quantity of appropriate technology of the day reinforced by the same random witness verification scheme used by Tommy.

I hope that's cleared things up.

[Whip]

From our camp, this is a good thing! Kajsa has options now and it should be easier for her. She can keep going as planned or make adjustments as needed. The Guinness change has nothing to do with publicity or public pressure. This record is only of any interest to a small niche of cyclists. The UMCA is an ultra-cycling organization made up of ultra-cyclists who know cycling. Guinness is not. It is pretty clear why Guinness is adapting to the UMCA rules and guidelines... from what we know.

Kajsa is doing fantastic and I have faith that she will do what is right for her. Now, leaping across the pond, we didn't have the spirit of someone to follow, we had a number. For us: It's About The Miles (sounds like a good name for a book, huh?). This competition is a revival for a new generation and everything about it is evolving. I think it's a very exciting time to be in and following ultra-cycling!

These are cliché, yet they helped everyday:
Things almost always never go wrong.
Remember the definition of "insanity."
Be flexible like Gumby.
Change is inevitable.
This will pass.
Sleep on it.
Listen

Kajsa, you're on target! You go girl!!!

[TimC]

I can see why she's a bit pissed off, but it'll pass. She can decide in slow time whether she'll change her approach totally, slightly, or not at all. I suspect that a bit of contemplation will result in little change - and that even making full use of the changes probably wouldn't have a huge effect on a day-to-day basis. She'll be fine - she comes across as a very resilient lady.

[mrcharly-YHT]

From our camp, this is a good thing! Kajsa has options now and it should be easier for her. She can keep going as planned or make adjustments as needed. The Guinness change has nothing to do with publicity or public pressure. This record is only of any interest to a small niche of cyclists. The UMCA is an ultra-cycling organization made up of ultra-cyclists who know cycling. Guinness is not. It is pretty clear why Guinness is adapting to the UMCA rules and guidelines... from what we know.

Kajsa is doing fantastic and I have faith that she will do what is right for her. Now, leaping across the pond, we didn't have the spirit of someone to follow, we had a number. For us: It's About The Miles (sounds like a good name for a book, huh?). This competition is a revival for a new generation and everything about it is evolving. I think it's a very exciting time to be in and following ultra-cycling!

These are cliché, yet they helped everyday:
Things almost always never go wrong.
Remember the definition of "insanity."
Be flexible like Gumby.
Change is inevitable.
This will pass.
Sleep on it.
Listen

Kajsa, you're on target! You go girl!!!

great message. you should send it directly to kajsa

[clarion]

+1

[Wowbagger]

Has Kajsa recorded a video today*?

*Or, more correctly, yesterday, since midnight just slipped past without me noticing.

[Kim]

Has Kajsa recorded a video today?

Possibly, but nothing's been uploaded yet.

[Mr Larrington]

Be flexible like Gumby.

Some Gumbies, yesterday

[macnark]

So Kajsa has chosen not to draft and to continue as she started - good on you Kajsa, I applaud your decision.

https://youtu.be/B4uSKlfjIVM

[Shreds]

+1 

[Marmitegeoff]

So Kajsa has chosen not to draft and to continue as she started - good on you Kajsa, I applaud your decision.

https://youtu.be/B4uSKlfjIVM

+1   

go Kajsa   

[clarion]

I support whatever she chooses to do.

I think that having a second bike lined up would be prudent, but it sounds like Leisure Lakes are being pretty responsive,  so that aspect might be manageable.

[mds101]

I rode with Kajsa again on Friday and we had quite a chat about this. Its been a real dilemma that I don't think she needed.

I'm really pleased to see that she's sticking with her original challange - I really admired her reasons for taking this on from the start. If she then needs in the future to follow the broader rules she'll have answered her own questions.

[red marley]

It was interesting to contrast the various responses on Facebook and Strava to her original question about whether to draft. Almost all the Strava recommendations were to draft - it's all about the miles - and the Facebook ones were to embrace the spirit of her and Billie's original challenge by not drafting. Not surprising perhaps, but a useful reminder of the self-selection of these groups, no single one of which can claim to be representative of cyclists as a whole.

[TimC]

I rode with Kajsa again on Friday and we had quite a chat about this. Its been a real dilemma that I don't think she needed.

I'm really pleased to see that she's sticking with her original challange - I really admired her reasons for taking this on from the start. If she then needs in the future to follow the broader rules she'll have answered her own questions.

I did think this was the conclusion she'd come to, as I said upthread. Although it's cost her some contemplation and worry, I'm sure she'll come to view it as a bit of a fuss about not very much in time. It will be on the record that she opted to ride the year 'in the spirit of Billie', and she'll get credit for that no matter who comes along in future to break the record exploiting the UMCA rules.

As Citizenfish said in his book (apologies for the poor paraphrasing), these records belong to all of those who set them in the context of their own times and limitations. The fact that someone rides a greater distance in no way diminishes the efforts of those whose distances they've exceeded. Each has their place in history, as Kajsa will.

[Wowbagger]

Absolutely spot on, Tim. When it comes to heroic effort, I don't think that any of the other record-holders or near misses can have done any more than our own Steve Abraham.

[TimC]

Steve's story is in its own category of badass!! I'm not sure that's how Kajsa would like to be seen, but she is carving her own niche.

[lahoski]

Steve's story is in its own category of badass!! I'm not sure that's how Kajsa would like to be seen, but she is carving her own niche.

I find it interesting that I am equally inspired by Steve, Kurt and Kajsa. Each of them have different qualities that we can all learn from and admire. Even Bruce (with his pigheadedness) and Miles have all shown aspects of their approaches we can all draw inspiration from, including weaknesses. They've exposed themselves and their vulnerabilities in ways most of us can only imagine.

I am impressed by the honesty shown by Kajsa and I am heartened by her decision. I don't think it is possible to make a "wrong" choice in this context but there is something that sits comfortably in that which she has made.

Chapeau.