Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Bolt on 10 January, 2017, 11:06:01 pm
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It's my LEL debut this year and I'm considering of opting for a start time between 14:00 and 16:00 as I'm okay with night riding and like the thought of less crowded controls. Are there many other riders that favour a late start time?
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A lot of audaxers can ride through the first night, and then be tired enough to fall asleep straight away on the second (despite all the snoring). I was a late morning start last time, which meant carrying on to the 2nd Yorkshire sleep control as the first was too packed. If I cycle to the start this time, I will probably opt for a later start to avoid the crowds and enjoy the event even more (if that's possible).
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I prefer an afternoon/evening start because:
i] I don't sleep well before an early morning start.
ii] The first 24 hours is too exciting to stop and sleep.
So somewhere up north, there will be somewhere I can stop [possibly quite early], on the second night, for a decent kip.
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Ditto to not sleeping well before early starts.
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I'm favouring a late start *and* stopping at Spalding for the first night.
My current plan has as little night riding as possible, maybe 1-2 hours after sundown max, but early starts each day. I've even got a 6 hours stop on the Thursday night at St Ives which if I'm behind schedule I could ride through for the final 120kms.
It's all about what works for you. I know if I go into sleep debt on the first night by riding through I'll not be able to catch up with a decent sleep on the second night whereas if I get 4-5 hours a night I'll be fine.
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I am also up for a later start for the more relaxed approach to getting to the start. Nothing concrete yet but I am thinking if I can get a couple of hours kip somewhere between 3 and 8 on the Monday morning I can then push on and get back into a routine of sleeping at night. Nothing is for sure and until I have a start time I'll not make too many plans.
I am also pretty comfortable riding though 24+ hours and still being ok to 'catch up' on sleep after that so the late start is probably better for me.
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The pbp style of late start and riding through the first night really suits me. A relaxed morning and afternoon before I set off has always worked for me rather than the lie in bed fretting and then waking up at an early time and feeling worn out before I even turn a pedal.
I was always going for the late start time, what concerns me now is if this idea becomes so popular and the late start times become harder to get :)
I never worry about what will happen at the end so my finish times don't really come into my calculations, much more important for me to start well and happy then let the ride unfold.
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In my opinion, there's an aspect you sould consider: if you start early you'll be overtaken, if you start late you will overtake. This has consequences on your morale.
My experience so far is:
LEL 2013, I started in the first publicly available group (B), I spent "less than five days" with a lot of cyclists overtaking me: they had started after me and were faster. I'm not a competitive cyclist, but my morale gradually worsened, and I started fearing I couldn't respect the time limit.
PBP 2015, I started in the very last group (Z) and overtook what seemed to me a lot of cyclists, I particularly remember the surprise when I first spotted a T letter, meaning somebody that had started 9 hours before me. My morale rocketed. If you think at it, it's obvious: nobody could overtake me because there was nobody behind me, I had thousands of cyclists before me, so I was simply overtaking the tail of them, but I was galvanized just the same.
Hopefully, in LEL 2017 I'll try to start in the middle just to further expand my experience...
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I'm thinking of opting for an afternoon start simply because it means I can travel up on the Sunday (get the train to Stratford and ride the last 9 miles to Loughton - nearly all of which are uphill, so should be a good warm-up!).
This means I will be able to get a proper night's sleep on Saturday and start the ride fully energised. Usual experience of 600s with 6am starts is being in a sleep-deprived state even before I've turned a pedal.
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Thanks for all the every encouraging responses to my OP, it's nice to know that I won't be on my own setting off later in the day:)
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The slower minimum speed and relaxed attitude to the closing times for the early controls make a late start time very attractive. I reckon riding to Louth from an afternoon start, 4 shortish days and half days riding on the Friday would work quite well. I've always started long rides early - LEL '09 at 9am, a DIY 1300 at 8 (I think) and PBP '11 at 5am - but quite fancy an afternoon start.
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I'm also favoring an late start, early night in Spalding and up and out for first light. That way looking at my excel sheet my sleep times work out quite well.
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I'm thinking of opting for an afternoon start simply because it means I can travel up on the Sunday (get the train to Stratford and ride the last 9 miles to Loughton - nearly all of which are uphill, so should be a good warm-up!).
This means I will be able to get a proper night's sleep on Saturday and start the ride fully energised. Usual experience of 600s with 6am starts is being in a sleep-deprived state even before I've turned a pedal.
How do you get around the need to for the Saturday registration?
Or am I missing something...?
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How do you get around the need to for the Saturday registration?
Er... good question. I didn't even realise that was a requirement.
Fortunately, I live close enough that I can make a trip up on Saturday.
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as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light
THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )
dave
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I started at the latest possible time last time for the reason Citoyen stated. I still had to get up at 8am, earlier than usual to get the train down to Cheshunt and ride to Loughton but at least thats an hour before normal o'clock rather than Audax o'clock. I was nearly a day quicker than the early start time allows this time but then I would start with a missed nights sleep. I always start PBP at 4pm. I bounced St Ives becasue the queue for food was out of the door so the late start didn't help at earlier controls. Didn't mind that though.
I think I was well ahead of the traffic bulge when I stopped at Brampton on the way back, which was still full of outbound riders.
I'm not sure how I would organise a 5 or 6 am start. Couldn't use the train so I'd have to ride down from Cambridge, 46 miles so I'd have to leave home at 3am for 6. It would be like a ride home from a pub with a wrong turn ;D. The earliest I could sensibly make is about 11am. One year there as a train strike so I had to ride home anyway, maybe I can ECE it to a 1500. Mind you any time would work if it had to.
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It looks like Spalding will be very much the new Market Rasen, the canny choice for the late starter who likes an early night.
Start at 4, stop here, leave again at 6am and still be in time with 5 hours' kip.
Louth is a relatively small control but Spalding is huge. I highly recommend you aim for Spalding if you want a higher chance of a quiet control.
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as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light
yes, and that's exactly what worked out for me in 2009. :thumbsup:
THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )
May I ask why you think controls will have no food for you?
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May I ask why you think controls will have no food for you?
While we can safely assume that the catering at LEL will be better than that on PBP, in 2015 the control at Carhaix had run out of food by Tuesday evening when there were still many riders on their way back from Brest and some still on their way out.
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THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )
The controllers have had discussions about ensuring that the tail end charlie's have a good and full experience. Whilst we may begin to scale down the control we will ensure that the full menu is still available to all right up to closing time. We're aware that that wasn't always the experience in 2013.
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May I ask why you think controls will have no food for you?
While we can safely assume that the catering at LEL will be better than that on PBP, in 2015 the control at Carhaix had run out of food by Tuesday evening when there were still many riders on their way back from Brest and some still on their way out.
Yes, LEL feeding has been much more reliable. At PBP, perhaps the only downside of their "federal" model is that the controls don't worry about the big picture. The food is almost operated as a business venture at some controls.
However, at the last LEL every rider got fed. Fact.
I was riding in '09 and didn't have any problems, despite starting late and finishing in over 116 hours! Although I had a bit of a moan when the massage service packed up 6 hours before I got to one control ...
Come to think of it, werent you on a similar schedule that year Rob? Did you have any problems?
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The slower minimum speed and relaxed attitude to the closing times for the early controls make a late start time very attractive.
I've never done LEL, but am interested in these relaxed attitudes.. I think that I am sort of intending to try and sleep nights. Lesson from PBP was "less faffing, more sleeping" I think
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However, at the last LEL every rider got fed. Fact.
We've had this discussion before, Matt.
While I don't know of anyone who went entirely unfed, at several controls I and others found there was no hot food, and an extremely limited selection of cold.
You may regard it as 'fact' that every rider got fed, but I believe alwyn regards the situation last time (for some, late-running riders) as having been less than satisfactory. That's why he has made plans to change things this time.
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jsabine is right; at some controls the riders at the back got dregs. Fact.
We really don't want that to happen again.
Most of our catering is contracted out now, and they all have our agreement to keep ordering food without needing to get my permission. At other controls they are under v. strict instructions to keep it basic to keep it flowing to the end.
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jsabine is right; at some controls the riders at the back got dregs. Fact.
We really don't want that to happen again.
Most of our catering is contracted out now, and they all have our agreement to keep ordering food without needing to get my permission. At other controls they are under v. strict instructions to keep it basic to keep it flowing to the end.
... which is all good stuff. :thumbsup:
But that is different to riders getting "no food". Now maybe I'm speaking a different version of English, or I read different sports nutrition books to some folks here, but the difference between
"no food" and
"an extremely limited selection of cold" food
is a pretty massive difference. One scenario might be ride-ending - the other might merely be a little annoying. Any controller responsible for riders getting "no food" would be pretty bloody unhappy about that situation, and I don't know anyone that has allowed it to come about.
(And that comes from my experience riding many multi-day events - occasionally being faced with very uninspiring food.)
I don't know why riders are afraid they might reach controls that have "No food", given that it is EXTREMELY rare on ANY audax, and clearly did not happen in 2013 (we see from Dasmi's post that some riders do have this fear). Unless some have spread this rumour about past events.
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The slower minimum speed and relaxed attitude to the closing times for the early controls make a late start time very attractive.
I've never done LEL, but am interested in these relaxed attitudes.. I think that I am sort of intending to try and sleep nights. Lesson from PBP was "less faffing, more sleeping" I think
Info from https://londonedinburghlondon.com/faq/
What happens if I arrive late at a control?
Tip: controls heading north, as far as Brampton, will remain open until all riders have passed through northbound and southbound. This means you do not need to worry if you have a time deficit early in the ride.
and
Folk absolutely shouldn't feel compelled to skip a night's sleep to avoid being late to early controls. So we're taking a pragmatic approach to intermediate control times on the way up.
show nicely that we needn't worry. :thumbsup:
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Nothing could be worse than PBP 2015 when they managed to run out of food for the pre-start meal even though folk had paid in advance for a meal that was an optional extra meaning they had exact numbers!
As a volunteer at Brampton on last LEL I have no doubt all controllers would do everything they could do to help support riders and that included proving food.
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If you're a vegetarian, or suffer from allergies or intolerances, there may not actually be a difference between "no food" and "limited selection".
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jsabine is right; at some controls the riders at the back got dregs. Fact.
We really don't want that to happen again.
Most of our catering is contracted out now, and they all have our agreement to keep ordering food without needing to get my permission. At other controls they are under v. strict instructions to keep it basic to keep it flowing to the end.
We shan't mention Market Rasen, which was eye-opening for everyone, is a sample size of just one, and I'm sure never to be repeated! In contrast, Thirsk and Pocklington stuck in my memory for a terrific spread on the way back south, and I was bouncing along in/out of time most of the way back :thumbsup: I'm still going to miss whisky in my porridge at Traquir this time, though :facepalm:
Nothing could be worse than PBP 2015 when they managed to run out of food for the pre-start meal even though folk had paid in advance for a meal that was an optional extra meaning they had exact numbers!
Ay, that was somewhat of a disappointment and certainly adversely affected The Plan — and the first stage on PBP was a long one before the next opportunity to eat at Mortagne au Perche. If nothing else, at least there are more corner-shop/pub/garage-stop opportunities between Loughton and St Ives than in France.
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If you're a vegetarian, or suffer from allergies or intolerances, there may not actually be a difference between "no food" and "limited selection".
... and equally so between "no food" and "food at many AUK controls". A selection of hot food all containing allergens isn't much use, I'd say.
It's usually the stuff with "interesting" ingredients that runs out first - stuff with gluten and animal products! There is a certain lottery aspect to this on any event; it can be a lot worse on events in certain other countries, especially for vegans.
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as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light
THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )
dave
I appear to taken my sharp "stick" and rammed it fully into the hornet's nest.
I personally was well fed at all the controls on the last LEL. FACT
I am glad to see that the organisers are aware of the issue.
cheers
Dave
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There's an issue with a late start: as there are more than 26 different start times, regular alphabet letters won't be enough for identifying them ???, so if a code like AA, AB, AC, etc. should be assigned after the 26th start time, a late start would imply more ink and hence a slightly heavier id. Other solutions could be digits, Greek and Cyrillic letters, or a colour coding. In case of a colour coding, of course, riders should be timely informed in order to consider the possibility of matching valve caps. ;D
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Come to think of it, werent you on a similar schedule that year Rob? Did you have any problems?
I don't recall any problems. Indeed, at the final control I think Teethgrinder was so keen to get rid of his stockpile that I could have eaten three or four times what I needed. And I know that in 2013 no one left Great Easton hungry :smug:
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The slower minimum speed and relaxed attitude to the closing times for the early controls make a late start time very attractive.
I've never done LEL, but am interested in these relaxed attitudes.. I think that I am sort of intending to try and sleep nights. Lesson from PBP was "less faffing, more sleeping" I think
Info from https://londonedinburghlondon.com/faq/
What happens if I arrive late at a control?
Tip: controls heading north, as far as Brampton, will remain open until all riders have passed through northbound and southbound. This means you do not need to worry if you have a time deficit early in the ride.
and
Folk absolutely shouldn't feel compelled to skip a night's sleep to avoid being late to early controls. So we're taking a pragmatic approach to intermediate control times on the way up.
show nicely that we needn't worry. :thumbsup:
That all makes me very happy
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Although this has not been kicked around with the controllers yet .. I do think that a quick guy can not expect to turn up 4 or 5 hours out of time .. on the argument .. well I can catch up easily.
Yes .. some sort of soft approach to times .. but no piss taking by riders .. as that is not fair on the controller and the volunteers at that control., as piss taking extends their opening hours, especially if they are a control which has a break between North bound and the arrival of returning Southbound riders.
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no piss taking
Always good advice. :thumbsup:
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Although this has not been kicked around with the controllers yet .. I do think that a quick guy can not expect to turn up 4 or 5 hours out of time .. on the argument .. well I can catch up easily.
Yes .. some sort of soft approach to times .. but no piss taking by riders .. as that is not fair on the controller and the volunteers at that control., as piss taking extends their opening hours, especially if they are a control which has a break between North bound and the arrival of returning Southbound riders.
I am really encouraged how much the organisers seem to be bending backwards to try to make everyone happy on this ride, including flexible opening times, diets and arranging extra halls for more beds in certain places and hundreds of other stuff. But Fidgetbuzz raises a point that I've been thinking about too. If you ask too many questions or provide too many options for us then there will always be some who will try to push it too far and take the piss. It's always those few who can cause the most aggro on a ride to helpers and organisers compared to everyone else who just keeps their head low and gets on with it.
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as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light
THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )
Regardless of the food side of things, there are all sorts of other reasons why I would think it's a bad idea for a full value rider to opt for a later start time - for a start, you're not giving yourself much leeway if you're held up by mechanical problems.
While I won't be troubling the winner's podium, I don't intend to get anything like full value from this ride and that is a factor in my reasons for preferring a later start time.
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........ especially if they are a control which has a break between North bound and the arrival of returning Southbound riders.
Must have missed that break at Brampton last time!
As a volunteer last time, fully support the other comments by Fidgetbuzz and also agree with those from Jacques who reiterates the lengths that are being taken to accommodate riders. Above and beyond the call of duty springs to mind.
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as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light
THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )
Regardless of the food side of things, there are all sorts of other reasons why I would think it's a bad idea for a full value rider to opt for a later start time - for a start, you're not giving yourself much leeway if you're held up by mechanical problems.
How so? Because they would be chasing closing controls? They would have the same amount of time to complete the ride presumably regardless of mechanicals whenever they start.
I'm currently favouring an around lunchtime start. Means I can get to the start at a relaxed time without a stupid o'clock start, get around 250km in the bag before a sleep at sensible o'clock. I know I won't sleep if I try to sleep before midnight on the first night. Get up in daylight and get a nice day's ride in on the first full day.
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Suspect it is chasing closing controls.
Being out of time at an intermediate control might be accepted/ignored but arriving after the controllers had packed up might not be.
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Suspect it is chasing closing controls.
Being out of time at an intermediate control might be accepted/ignored but arriving after the controllers had packed up might not be.
Surely you get the same time for the event no matter what time you start and controls will be open for the normal time windows allowed for the minimum speed for your start time?
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They would have the same amount of time to complete the ride
Yes, of course. I wasn't thinking it through properly. :facepalm:
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I agree with Helly.
If you are an earlier start time and fall (as an extreme example) 6 hours behind your time, on this event you could theoretically make up that time before the final control as the controls will still be operating for later starters.
If you are a late starter and full value and fall behind you will find the controls have physically closed and gone home. I would assume the volunteers will start to clean up and close down the controls just after the last 'in-time' riders go through. You might still make up the time, but the controls will no longer be available to you as you do so.
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For a full value rider, an early start also has the attraction that it is more likely that you will have some company on the road for at least two-thirds of the event, even though it will usually be later starters catching up. If you are in a late start group (as I was in 09) then once the faster riders have disappeared over the horizon, you can end up spending a lot of time on your own.
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My concern with starting at say 2pm and riding to Louth and doing 240km, is will there be enough beds? or do I start a 3 or 4pm and stop at Spalding and get an earlier night? downside of that one is I could be riding at lot on my own being at the back, playing catch up.
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louth is in for 300 beds, spalding for 250 .. probably does not help your decision making, but might do.
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My concern with starting at say 2pm and riding to Louth and doing 240km, is will there be enough beds? or do I start a 3 or 4pm and stop at Spalding and get an earlier night? downside of that one is I could be riding at lot on my own being at the back, playing catch up.
I'm toying with the idea of entering, it will be my first and probably last attempt at this one.
My thoughts was to start 2 or 3pm and try and make Louth by 2 or 3 am, so you could keep me company (if you're not too fast that is). any later and it would have to be Spalding for an early bed and early rise.
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My concern with starting at say 2pm and riding to Louth and doing 240km, is will there be enough beds? or do I start a 3 or 4pm and stop at Spalding and get an earlier night? downside of that one is I could be riding at lot on my own being at the back, playing catch up.
This comment by LEL chief stewart @alwyn may be helpful in this regard: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=100779.msg2119353#msg2119353
I came to the conclusion that if I chose a late start time, I'll try to ride through the first night.
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Late start permits doing Ride London earlier in the day and ECE to 1600km. Anyone else here mentally unstable enough to also be considering this possibility?
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Last time I had a really early start (6:30 ?) and rode through the first night, stopping at Moffat.
It caused me to have a massive techy strop mid-afternoon when the sleep dep kicked in, but I slept from 6pm to 2am at Moffat and kept me way ahead of the bulge.
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Late start permits doing Ride London earlier in the day and ECE to 1600km. Anyone else here mentally unstable enough to also be considering this possibility?
I entered the ballot for Ride London before realising there was a clash. I think I find out in a week or two whether I've got a place but I think I'd be likely to decline it. While it would be possible (if a bit mad) to do what Rich suggests, the risk of getting into a crash among all of those inexperienced riders and so missing out on LEL is too great.
Were I fit enough to get a very early start time and ride in a small, elite and fast group, it might be a different matter. Instead, I'd be slogging it round among all the bankers and accountants wearing matching jerseys.
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I started at almost the last throw of the dice last time and had a great ride.
Keen to enjoy myself again this time :thumbsup:
H
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For a full value rider, an early start also has the attraction that it is more likely that you will have some company on the road for at least two-thirds of the event, even though it will usually be later starters catching up. If you are in a late start group (as I was in 09) then once the faster riders have disappeared over the horizon, you can end up spending a lot of time on your own.
Same here. I started in the next to last group in 09. Being a slow climber I lost contact with all groups after the 2nd control and only met riders in deeper trouble as myself for the remainder of the ride.
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Keen to enjoy myself again this time :thumbsup:
H
Oh Hummers Really .. keep those habits at home please
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Glad that there are others interested in stopping in Spalding on the first night. The control is in the school where I spent my formative years. I haven't been back there in more than 20 years, so I don't want to breeze through that one. And I like the idea of starting towards the back of the pack so that there are people to pass.
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Glad that there are others interested in stopping in Spalding on the first night.
I'm planning on a measured 20kph to Spalding for a sleep stop and an early start, after that the only plan I'll be aiming to stick to is to do my best to enjoy the ride. Please remind me of this if I'm bowling along on a tailwind with thoughts of cycling on through the night :hand:
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Hush please on all this promoting of later starting times. Those of us leaning that way don't want to see the afternoon over-subscribed, and face getting bumped to the wee hours of the morning !
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I had a late start on the last LEL. It was beneficial as it allowed my hangover to subside a little before setting off. I won't be visiting the fleshpots of Loughton this time. (I am not referring to you as a fleshpot Hummers).
Riding near to the tail of the event, I found there was a shortage of food at a couple of controls but hey there's shops and petrol stations on route. Treat it like a DIY if you need to, no need to go hungry.
As I have had two late starts previously, I might try an early one this time.
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Late start permits doing Ride London earlier in the day and ECE to 1600km. Anyone else here mentally unstable enough to also be considering this possibility?
Hmm. I got the 'Congratulations! You have been successful in gaining a place" magazine from RL this morning.
I've got until the 27th to work out precisely how stupid I feel. (And whether or not I'm inclined to pay 'em £69!)
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I got the dreaded commiserations magazine :'(
Might go for a charity place...I'm quite attracted now to the audacity of 1,000 miles in 5 days. Bonkers.
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I'm becoming quite attracted to the idea of bumping it up to 1900km, and getting the extra time allowance - 10kph - for the ECE bit. Front-load it, and you've got three days before your start time to do 500km (well, 73 hours and change).
The Mall and my home are each about 15 miles from the school - call it 25km, so with riding up on the Saturday for registration, that's 75km. Riding home at the end of the jaunt is another 25. Ride London is 160.
Assuming a Sunday pm start - would have to be 1600 I think. Do 250km on the Friday (or at any rate starting after 1600 on Thursday), have all day Sat for registration, then Ride London on the Sunday morning. Would need to be back at the Mall for 1400 in order to be reasonably comfortable getting up to Loughton.
Hmm. No way at all to be even remotely sure of that, is there? Start times for RL are between 0545 and 0900. A couple of years ago I had an 0639 start and finished about half one - that would work OK, but you don't get start times until early July.
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I've managed to get a 6am start at RL three times. So would be confident of getting same again. And would appeal if they put me in any later than 6.30
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I'm becoming quite attracted to the idea of bumping it up to 1900km
And I'm becoming quite attracted to the idea that you have gone bonkers. Wasn't it enough for you to try and get us both killed by cycling down the A102 on a Saturday night? :o :o Now you want to risk your LEL success by haring around Surrey surrounded by wannabe racers and charity fundraising accountants wearing matching jerseys? What if one of them takes you out as they lurch all over the road? :facepalm: Bang goes your LEL! :'(
(And no, this isn't just because I got one of the "Commiserations" magazines ::-) )
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While I totally love the concept of ECE-LEL, would teh rulez prohibit you from doing 'Ride London' as part of an audax? I guess it could be done practically as a mandatory route by gps, but how would you prove you'd not been paced by 'other cyclists not on your event'? Apart from the obvious thought that Ride Londoners are more likely to hold to up than pace you. :)
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I'm becoming quite attracted to the idea of bumping it up to 1900km, and getting the extra time allowance - 10kph - for the ECE bit. Front-load it, and you've got three days before your start time to do 500km (well, 73 hours and change).
The Mall and my home are each about 15 miles from the school - call it 25km, so with riding up on the Saturday for registration, that's 75km. Riding home at the end of the jaunt is another 25. Ride London is 160.
Assuming a Sunday pm start - would have to be 1600 I think. Do 250km on the Friday (or at any rate starting after 1600 on Thursday), have all day Sat for registration, then Ride London on the Sunday morning. Would need to be back at the Mall for 1400 in order to be reasonably comfortable getting up to Loughton.
Hmm. No way at all to be even remotely sure of that, is there? Start times for RL are between 0545 and 0900. A couple of years ago I had an 0639 start and finished about half one - that would work OK, but you don't get start times until early July.
You want to bring your ride up just 200km shorter than WAWA distance? Can't get enough of the 2000km + audaxes eh?
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A congratulations received as well and I'd forgotten I'd entered. Defer to 2018 I think?
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I will come from abroad, travelling with wife and a child. Hotel is booked near London tourist attractions before start.
Just wondering, doesn´t an early start time mean too early wake-up in the sunday, or at least hurry and stress? Hotel location means long transition to Loughton.
Should a late start time be a better choice for a foreign tourist like me? At least no sleep dep at start.
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I would certainly agree that sleep-deprived is not the best way to start a 1400km event!
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I will come from abroad, travelling with wife and a child. Hotel is booked near London tourist attractions before start.
Just wondering, doesn´t an early start time mean too early wake-up in the sunday, or at least hurry and stress? Hotel location means long transition to Loughton.
Should a late start time be a better choice for a foreign tourist like me? At least no sleep dep at start.
Depends on how you are before an event, particularly abroad. Some can't sleep due to excitement others sleep like a log. Also are you a morning or evening person. I'm definitely an owl and prefer riding at night to an early start with the larks.
If you go for a 9:00am start your deadline to finish will be 5:40am on the Friday. If you go for a 4:00pm start your deadline to finish will be 12:40pm on the Friday. So a later start would allow you the option of a lie in further southbound on the route say at St Ives and then a nice finish in daylight. This of course depends on how far ahead of the time limit you are as you reach the final sections, and what kind of buffer you like to maintain.
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I will come from abroad, travelling with wife and a child. Hotel is booked near London tourist attractions before start.
Just wondering, doesn´t an early start time mean too early wake-up in the sunday, or at least hurry and stress? Hotel location means long transition to Loughton.
Should a late start time be a better choice for a foreign tourist like me? At least no sleep dep at start.
I'm in a very similar situation, even if I haven't defined all the details. I'm looking forward to starting at about midday, in order to have a proper breakfast with my family, prepare the bike, leave the hotel (or what it will be) without any hurry, and possibly enjoy the ride to Loughton.
The only downside is that I'd like to pass through the Howardian Hills at dawn, but my planning says that if I ride through the first night I'll probably be there at 3-4 AM, to early.
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If you go for a 9:00am start your deadline to finish will be 5:40am on the Friday. If you go for a 4:00pm start your deadline to finish will be 12:40pm on the Friday.
finish Thursday, surely?
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If you go for a 9:00am start your deadline to finish will be 5:40am on the Friday. If you go for a 4:00pm start your deadline to finish will be 12:40pm on the Friday.
finish Thursday, surely?
Pretty sure it's Friday - just a shade under five days overall.
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If you go for a 9:00am start your deadline to finish will be 5:40am on the Friday. If you go for a 4:00pm start your deadline to finish will be 12:40pm on the Friday.
finish Thursday, surely?
Pretty sure it's Friday - just a shade under five days overall.
Yep, the only time limits that in fall in Thursday are from the 100 hour starts.
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I will come from abroad, travelling with wife and a child. Hotel is booked near London tourist attractions before start.
Just wondering, doesn´t an early start time mean too early wake-up in the sunday, or at least hurry and stress? Hotel location means long transition to Loughton.
Should a late start time be a better choice for a foreign tourist like me? At least no sleep dep at start.
I'm in a very similar situation, even if I haven't defined all the details. I'm looking forward to starting at about midday, in order to have a proper breakfast with my family, prepare the bike, leave the hotel (or what it will be) without any hurry, and possibly enjoy the ride to Loughton.
The only downside is that I'd like to pass through the Howardian Hills at dawn, but my planning says that if I ride through the first night I'll probably be there at 3-4 AM, to early.
You won't be much too early - remember you are further north and days are longer. I doubt your timing will be that precise...
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If you go for a 9:00am start your deadline to finish will be 5:40am on the Friday. If you go for a 4:00pm start your deadline to finish will be 12:40pm on the Friday.
finish Thursday, surely?
One should never try to work these things out when one is feeling tired and emotional
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I will come from abroad, travelling with wife and a child. Hotel is booked near London tourist attractions before start.
Just wondering, doesn´t an early start time mean too early wake-up in the sunday, or at least hurry and stress? Hotel location means long transition to Loughton.
Should a late start time be a better choice for a foreign tourist like me? At least no sleep dep at start.
I'm in a very similar situation, even if I haven't defined all the details. I'm looking forward to starting at about midday, in order to have a proper breakfast with my family, prepare the bike, leave the hotel (or what it will be) without any hurry, and possibly enjoy the ride to Loughton.
The only downside is that I'd like to pass through the Howardian Hills at dawn, but my planning says that if I ride through the first night I'll probably be there at 3-4 AM, to early.
You won't be much too early - remember you are further north and days are longer. I doubt your timing will be that precise...
Ephemerides say the sun will rise at 5:15 AM, my question is: how long before astronomical sunrise will light be sufficient to admire Castle Howard?
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37 minutes 24 seconds.
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Thank you, ESL. Let's hope there'll be a place available for starting at 13:37:36... just kidding... ;)
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The obvious view of Castle Howard from the route is across the lake.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.132618,-0.9186964,3a,75y,173.08h,75.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9Kc1SNDGChFcuqHm9DJAkw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
I was taking video of the start at Loughton at 4.45am in 2013. There was enough light for that, but it's worth remembering that light comes more from the WNW in the UK at that time of year.
That shot of Castle Howard will benefit from telephoto, so low light conditions will call for a tripod. It might be quite nice with a pink tinge to the clouds.
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The obvious view of Castle Howard from the route is across the lake.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.132618,-0.9186964,3a,75y,173.08h,75.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9Kc1SNDGChFcuqHm9DJAkw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
I was taking video of the start at Loughton at 4.45am in 2013. There was enough light for that, but it's worth remembering that light comes more from the WNW in the UK at that time of year.
That shot of Castle Howard will benefit from telephoto, so low light conditions will call for a tripod. It might be quite nice with a pink tinge to the clouds.
AIUI the light will come from the East side of North after 1.13am...
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The obvious view of Castle Howard from the route is across the lake.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.132618,-0.9186964,3a,75y,173.08h,75.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9Kc1SNDGChFcuqHm9DJAkw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
I was taking video of the start at Loughton at 4.45am in 2013. There was enough light for that, but it's worth remembering that light comes more from the WNW in the UK at that time of year.
That shot of Castle Howard will benefit from telephoto, so low light conditions will call for a tripod. It might be quite nice with a pink tinge to the clouds.
AIUI the light will come from the East side of North after 1am...
Your'e right of course. It's ENE. I remember cycling past Dounraey on the Northern Highlights 500 in late June 2000, and being surprised to see the sky becoming light behind it.
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Easy enough to get your east and west mixed up ESL
If you want unearthly light go to Antarctica in the summer. The sun circles you and dips to the horizon but never actually sets. It just touches the horizon and then starts climbing again.
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I was a bit out with my guess. Civil Twilight is 04.32. so actually 43 minutes.
http://app.photoephemeris.com/?ll=54.121803,-0.906128¢er=54.1356,-0.8943&dt=20160801043226%2B0100&z=13&spn=0.04,0.15
Civil twilight is defined when the sun is 6 degrees below the horizon. In the morning this is known as dawn, in the evening it is called dusk. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities.
http://www.sunrisesunset.com/definitions.html