Author Topic: Repetitive Strain Injury  (Read 3120 times)

Repetitive Strain Injury
« on: 15 January, 2017, 12:41:51 pm »
This morning I met up with a friend I had not seen for about six months, like me he does about 10,000 miles a year. First thing I noticed was that he had changed his stis to bar-end shifters. The reason he said was a diagnosis of RSI through the wrist turning movement when changing his gears. At first I thought he was kidding me until he showed me his wrist strapping.

Anyone else come across this?
Most people tip-toe through life hoping the make it safely to death.
Home

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #1 on: 15 January, 2017, 12:53:51 pm »
RSI is a rag-bag of unrelated conditions.
Some, like De Quervain's tenosynovitis, have well-defined triggers and treatments.
Some are ill-defined occupational problems that might be hard to trace and treat.

Multiply repeated small movements against little resistance are often the cause so some computer gamers and typists have suffered in the past.

I would believe your friend but not necessarily do anything on my own bike unless I had pain and/or creaking.

(click to show/hide)

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #2 on: 15 January, 2017, 12:58:48 pm »
I had tenosynovitis (inflammation of the tendon sheath) in my left wrist from using my front brake riding in traffic for 10 hours a day 5 days a week.

I had a few ultrasound sessions and wore a sort of removable cast for a bit. I was offered cortisone injection but didn't take it. It took a bout 6 months to clear up.


mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #3 on: 15 January, 2017, 01:06:34 pm »
It does seem to be a rare but real issue. Most reports I've seen are from ultra-distance events; quite a few people on PBP have had it (out of 10,000s of riders), and one female RAAM rider _probably_ crashed out due to having problems using STI after about 5 days continuous riding.

I believe down-tube levers reduce a lot of upper body pains on long rides, but have no evidence. If I was buying a custom bike I'd definitely do without STis
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #4 on: 15 January, 2017, 01:09:04 pm »
Discussions amongst the experienced transam riders on facebook reveals that a lot of the experienced riders are switching to Di electronic switching to avoid tendon strain. That suggests it is a real issue.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #5 on: 15 January, 2017, 01:17:09 pm »
this can be an issue on multi-day rides, as operating the sti levers not only makes the wrist rotate in an unnatural way, but also squeeze the body of the shifter a bit more, putting pressure on the nerves at the base of one's palm.

i'm working on a solution for this problem.

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #6 on: 15 January, 2017, 01:39:32 pm »
RSI does not exist. Full stop

Changing gear on a modern bike even on 10,000miles is not repetitive. We define repetitive as a cycle time of a few seconds constantly.

De qervains, trigger fingers etc are common conditions found frequently in the age group who ride long distance.

Carpal tunnel may be initiated in the constitutionally susceptible by the position we use of straight elbow and extended wrist. Guyons canal entrapment is probably a direct pressure effect from wrong wrist position and too much weight on the arms.

I know that in a post truth world experts are not to be trusted but I am an expert in this as in I make my living at it. I work at the largest specialist hand surgery unit in the country.




hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #7 on: 15 January, 2017, 02:29:44 pm »
[pedant]. Futon or Guyon?

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #8 on: 15 January, 2017, 02:57:06 pm »
RSI does not exist. Full stop

I know you are an expert so I'm not disagreeing with you.

But can you explain a bit more, please? As someone who works in the IT industry, I've experienced tendon pain from repetitive movements,  typing and clicking. I've seen colleagues reduced to needing braces and surgery to relieve swollen tendon sheaths.
I know enough about hand anatomy to know about the congestion passing through the carpal tunnel area and how vulnerable that is to swelling.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #9 on: 15 January, 2017, 03:24:42 pm »
So, first we use terminology from a previous era such as 'tenosynovitis".  most conditions thought to be a tenosynovitis 50 years ago when we look at the histology are not a tenosynovitis.  They are actually a degenerative condition of the tissues.  So trigger fingers, De Quervains, tennis elbow, rotator cuff problems are all degenerative conditions which are frequently associated with each other and possibly related to changes in the type of blood supply to the tendon and tendon sheath.  They are extremely painful when they occur.  tennis elbow we know for certain is a self limiting condition which should be treated with reassurance and advice on lifting technique.  Steroid injections actually lead to a worse long term outcome.  (I suspect GPs still give these injections as they are paid per injection)

Carpal tunnel syndrome is associated with BMI.  There is almost a direct correlation between BMI and the risk of developing CTS along with smoking , the shape of your wrist and a couple of other factors.  There may be a relationship with repetitive forceful movements.  This means a 30 second cycle of movement through at least 50% of the Range of motion of the wrist whilst doing a forceful activity.  however it could also be that people who do such jobs have wrist shapes that are more likely to get CTS.

Your heart is the most repetitive organ in the human body, awake or asleep with no rest it beats an average of 60 times per second for 80+ years without any inherent problem.  So repetition in itself seems to be OK for body tissues.

Strain is a defined condition of elongation of a ligament beyond its ability to return to normal without some healing.  In other words a high energy event.  Twisting your ankle is a sprain, clicking a mouse button is not.

Injury is defined as an event that leads to  an inflammatory response with characteristic pathology and processes usually ending in scar tissue.  Not seen in "RSI".

RSI is a daily Mirror term and not used by responsible doctors for about 10 years or more.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #10 on: 15 January, 2017, 03:34:29 pm »
Quote
Your heart is the most repetitive organ in the human body, awake or asleep with no rest it beats an average of 60 times per second for 80+ years without any inherent problem.  So repetition in itself seems to be OK for body tissues.

!!!  ;) ;) ;D

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #11 on: 15 January, 2017, 04:16:29 pm »
Strain is a defined condition of elongation of a ligament beyond its ability to return to normal without some healing.  In other words a high energy event.  Twisting your ankle is a sprain, clicking a mouse button is not.


I'll take a bite of the bait and offer a partial answer based on my sport teacher training.
Given I've personally ended up with sore tendons from prolonged sessions (more than 8 hours) of intense mouse work, how do you explain that?

(click to show/hide)
<i>Marmite slave</i>

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #12 on: 15 January, 2017, 04:34:06 pm »
RSI is a daily Mirror term and not used by responsible doctors for about 10 years or more.
Also seen in plain view on the BUPA and NHS websites if one googles RSI.

I am sure you are correct, but sometimes we need to accept colloquial usage!   [see also PIN number et al :P ]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #13 on: 15 January, 2017, 08:36:10 pm »
So you were doing unaccustomed activity constantly for 8 hours with forearm muscles contracted.

If you did 8 hours of cycling unaccustomed and had leg pain we would call it DOMS not RSI.

pain after 8 hours of any activity is normal.  It is not an injury and it is not something special.


RSI on the BUPA websites.  I know, but then I have to waste your taxes telling people it does not exist and we wonder why the NHS is short of money!

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #14 on: 15 January, 2017, 11:16:54 pm »
Pain in the tendons, not in my forearm muscles.  Sharp pain in my tendons. I guess it could have been pain from the flexor muscles, it is hard to tell.
Not delayed btw, building up through the day.

I can understand your objection to the use of the term repetitive strain injury, since it is is not the repetition that is causing the injury, it is the tension and position that is causing the injury.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #15 on: 16 January, 2017, 07:28:18 am »
Pain in your arms does not mean injury.  there is this feeling now that pain + injury.  It does not necessarily.  You used your muscles/tendons to an extent that they were not used to and they were sore.  This is just a statement.  There would be no injury if we examined them.  Tendons are extremely tough and can withstand a great amount of force and effort.

Re: Repetitive Strain Injury
« Reply #16 on: 16 January, 2017, 10:26:02 am »
I will go see him again later this week and find out who did the diagnosis and pass on some of your comments. Having gone through some problems last year with my ulnar nerve and PMR I know full tests are required to get a true diagnosis.
Most people tip-toe through life hoping the make it safely to death.
Home