[LEL17] What's a reasonable estimate for time spent in controls?

[canuckystan]

I know this can vary a lot, but from those who have done the event, what is a reasonable estimate for total time spent at controls?  Get card stamped, have a stretch, etc.  I'm trying to plan and estimating 12 hours in total for all controls.  Thoughts?

[mmmmartin]

this can vary a lot

Perhaps think of a minimum of five minutes merely to have the brevet stamped and a maximum of eights hours if you want to have a good bit of kip.
Hope that helps.

[Chris S]

In 2013, we mostly managed between half an hour and an hour at our "intermediate" stops; for stamp, food, loo and a few minutes of loafing about "out of the ride". Our overnight stops were about 5 hours.

It's much easier to bounce a control if you need to on LEL than it is on PBP where 30-45 minutes seems to be the minimum feasible, given all the walking and one-way systems to negotiate.

[Bunker22]

Average 45 minutes for 'normal' stuff. Then extra for booking beds, sleeping and breakfast.

[redfalo]

It really depends a lot. On PBP, I bounced Mortagne after 140 km, which was not official control on the way out. Will try to do the same at St. Ives. Spent longer than expected at most other control for various reasons, among them a meachnical which was sorted out by bike mechanics and meeting a fantastic ride partner I decided to stick with and who wanted to have shower in Brest. On way back, with up to 8 hours in hand, my control discipline deteriorated significantly, but I bounced final control (depite having plenty of time in hand). It can really be everything between 15 minutes and 6 hours. In my planning spreadsheets, I stopped trying to predict control times and work with overall average speeds including stops. I know I can do 600km at around 17 kph and 1200 at 14.5kph. .

[mattc]

In my planning spreadsheets, I stopped trying to predict control times and work with overall average speeds including stops. I know I can do 600km at around 17 kph and 1200 at 14.5kph. .

I totally endorse this approach. Everyone has different routines at controls, but by late July 2017 we will all have plenty of experience of doing long events with lots of controls - apart from sleep stops, they are all just part of your average speed.

[PBP is different - cos even if you want to bounce them, they are so huge that you do waste significant time! But no other event is like PBP ... ]

[Exit Stage Left]

Bouncing controls requires a knowledge of where alternatives are. Fast food outlets and shops are sometimes just off the route, so won't be impacted by browsing in the same way that the obvious Co-op and Spar stores will be.

Obviously the controls should be the first choice, as the food is included in the price, and all the facilities are there. But there are alternatives which will consume less time. 'Meal deals' in convenience stores are something to look out for. You might spend £50 or so more by dong that, but that's not a lot for a completed ride if you're coming with the family from far away.

You'll know if you need to adopt a short-stop strategy by the time you get to Edinburgh.

[The French Tandem]

I think it all depends on your average speed. On LEL 2013, we were just slightly ahead of the bulge, so the queues for card stamping and food were insignificant for us, and we spent an average of 40-45 minutes at each daytime control. Other riders may have had different experiences. 

Obviously the controls should be the first choice, as the food is included in the price, and all the facilities are there.

+1. Overall, we spent exactly £0 on the way to Edinburgh, and about £20 (for two) on the way back, including a supermarket stop in Alston, and an emergency bottle refill between St-Yves and Great Easton.

[Exit Stage Left]

The LEL course throws up some interesting effects. The section from Edinburgh to Brampton can be predominantly headwind. It's got long shallow hills, and when it's calm it favours lighter climbers. With a headwind it favours those with more power to frontal area, Tandems, recumbents and heavier solo riders.

The prevailing wind on PBP is such that those who reach Brest can usually be more relaxed on the return, which suits the way fatigue sets in. LEL can be the opposite. All planning needs to consider the wind conditions, which will be unknown until the ride happens, You also need to know what direction the course takes, which is something you won't know without looking at a map.

A graphic of average speeds between controls for the whole field, plotted on a map would be useful, especially correlated with wind conditions.

[Phil W]

Controls are quite compact in relation to anything you may have experienced at PBP. No long walks from the bike parking to getting your card stamped. So a mimimal faff where you get your card stamped and water bottles filled then get going can be done in less than 15 minutes. Anything longer is down to you for the most part,

[Greenbank]

I know this can vary a lot, but from those who have done the event, what is a reasonable estimate for total time spent at controls?  Get card stamped, have a stretch, etc.  I'm trying to plan and estimating 12 hours in total for all controls.  Thoughts?

In 2009 I had a moving average of ~20kph and finished with 2 hours to spare, so that means I was stopped for close to 40 hours. Of that I'd say ~5 hours was between controls (random faffing, 2h to combat dozies in Longtown, stops at shops, a bunch of us stopping for lunch on a nice village green on the final day, etc), so ~35h was in controls, of which 10h or so was actual sleep. I was riding to finish with a couple of hours spare, so I did take longer than I needed to at various points because I had the time.

The other extreme is someone like zigzag's 2011 PBP performance: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=92680.msg1908856#msg1908856

That thread (albeit PBP) has plenty of other examples.

[Phil W]

Saint-Nicolas-du-Pélem. 5h stop, walking the Garmin (two data error spikes): Food, shower, 2h Sleep, Food.

This post from the end of the PBP thread sums up what happens at controls.

[Somnolent]

2013 stats

St Ives 32 mins
Kirton 45 mins
Market Rasen 52 mins
Pocklington 4 h 39
Thirsk 67 min
Barnard C 51 mins
(Alston 20 mins - Ice cream, only time we spent any £ on way north)
Brampton 77 mins
Moffat 6 h 31
Edinburgh 61 mins

I won't give you the southbound numbers because the wheels started to fall off...

I'm hoping that the extra numbers of riders over 2013 will be compensated by spreading out start times and more experience on part of controllers.

Don't forget if you are riding in a group your time in controls is dictated by the one most prone to faffage!

[CrinklyUncle]

Have a look here https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=75247

It has a few peoples stopped times from 2013, mine where from a full value ride as I finished with 22 minutes spare.

[Deano]

Different ride, obviously, but someone added Strava segments for all the 2015 PBP controls. This was my ride if anyone wants a skeg.

https://www.strava.com/activities/375064730/shareable_images/map_based?hl=en-GB&v=1440447992

Even though we didn't eat there, Dave and I still spent over 10 minutes at the Brest control

[Moleman76]

Have a look here https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=75247

It has a few peoples stopped times from 2013, mine where from a full value ride as I finished with 22 minutes spare.

and also the amazing animation at http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/~jwo/lel2013/  -- actually, there are several ways to view the data.  The topic mentioned by CrinklyUncle has quite a bit about modelling using a declining speed rate the further one goes in

[Greenbank]

Have a look here https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=75247

It has a few peoples stopped times from 2013, mine where from a full value ride as I finished with 22 minutes spare.

and also the amazing animation at http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/~jwo/lel2013/  -- actually, there are several ways to view the data.  The topic mentioned by CrinklyUncle has quite a bit about modelling using a declining speed rate the further one goes in

Just remember that jo's animation is based on just the arrival times at controls, it doesn't know how long people stayed at controls as leaving times were not recorded anywhere. Any perceived stops at controls are estimates by jo's algorithm.

[Exit Stage Left]

The surest way to estimate the number of people in a control is the number of shoes, assuming that it's compulsory to take them off.
The more people there are in a control, the longer all the transactions will take, and the numbers mount up, as everyone is staying longer. It's what we call 'The Loudeac Problem'.

The number of shoes is as good an indicator as any.

[mattc]

The surest way to estimate the number of people in a control is the number of shoes, assuming that it's compulsory to take them off.
The more people there are in a control, the longer all the transactions will take, and the numbers mount up, as everyone is staying longer. It's what we call 'The Loudeac Problem'.

The number of shoes is as good an indicator as any.

Nice idea, but we dont' have any tracking data for the shoes.

[Exit Stage Left]

I made a trip to Moffat in 2013, as Heather reckoned there would be 400 people there. It was actually quite calm, as it's a big place, and only gets one visit. Sheila wanted me to take a look at the shoes, as that would indicate how many people there were in the control.

No control in Scotland is visited twice, Brampton takes the brunt of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euo216a4hRI