Lacing a Brooks saddle. Why?

[Polar Bear]

I am curious about this.   

Has anybody done this and why did you do it?  What's the difference and doesn't the lacing rub against your clothing causing premature wear?

I am considering lacing one of my B17's for testing purposes.

[tatanab]

I did it to a B17 because the sides flared too much after only a very few thousand miles.  The lacing pulls the sides back in and under perhaps.  I used flat shoe laces so there is hardly any material over the surface of the saddle and it is not where my legs might rub.  This saddle has been relegated to a machine that gets used about once every 2 or 3 years.

[The French Tandem]

Has anybody done this and why did you do it? 

I had an overly sagging B17. Lacing the sides together turned it into a rock hard saddle. I finally ditched the saddle a few months later due to painful perineal pressure.

What's the difference and doesn't the lacing rub against your clothing causing premature wear?

The non-laced sides did rub on my shorts. Lacing solved this problem.

[Polar Bear]

I notice that Brooks punch a set of holes all the way along the flank of the saddle yet only lace half a dozen holes in the middle.    Strange.

I'm also concerned about over tightening the lace and perhaps ruining the shape of the saddle.  I'm thinking that it should be tied with the saddle unladen but not pulled.   The lace should perhaps prevent splaying from the natural position.

[ian.r.mcdonald]

selling my Brooks after a few weeks of pain was one of the best things I have done. I love classic and retro, but things have moved on and a comfortable saddle that doesnt need diy mods makes the ride much nicer

[Blodwyn Pig]

here is a side view, showing no hammocking,  saddle prob 25-30000km old (4-5 years) showing the zip tie used as lacing




another shot




here is the lacing arrangement ,its '  an up  and under!'  2 zip ties laced thro each other to extend length.





aerial shot, showing how little  the flat zip tie actually protrudes. 


try it,  its only 4 holes and 2 zip ties. I can lend you the holes if you like, but I'm a bit short of zip ties.

[Torslanda]

selling my Brooks after a few weeks of pain was one of the best things I have done. I love classic and retro, but things have moved on and a comfortable saddle that doesnt need diy mods makes the ride much nicer

There, encapsulated in a paragraph, is the confirmation I've been seeking for may a year.

You either have Brooks shaped arse or you don't.

[Polar Bear]

It's more complicated than that.   I don't have a Brooks Pro or Swallow arse but I do have a B17 arse.   

I'm not convinced that the lacing thing isn't simply a fad because you're sitting on the saddle with your thighs moving against the sides.   If there was a problem surely you'd get some chafing?   I can see hat by lacing you stop the 'hammocking' but surely that's what a B17 is all about? 

[tatanab]

you're sitting on the saddle with your thighs moving against the sides.   If there was a problem surely you'd get some chafing?

Splayed saddle can chafe.  Lacing pulls the bottom of the sides inwards and has a side effect of raising the saddle to making it a bit flatter.  So you might lose some of the comfortable saddle shape depending on just how you ride.

[Polar Bear]

Interesting.   Not something that I have experienced, yet.   

I'll mull it over but will probably end up lacing one as a trial.

[Ian H]

One of the nice things about the Rivet I have is that the sides have tabs which are riveted together underneath.

[Polar Bear]

BP, that's interesting but what bothers me about that is that, especially from the overhead shot, it looks to me like the saddle's natural shape is distorted.

My expectation would be that the lacing simply holds the saddle wings more or less in place and thus having a dozen or so holes down each flank with a cross lacing system, the original shape would be better maintained by spreading the load.

[ian.r.mcdonald]

selling my Brooks after a few weeks of pain was one of the best things I have done. I love classic and retro, but things have moved on and a comfortable saddle that doesnt need diy mods makes the ride much nicer

There, encapsulated in a paragraph, is the confirmation I've been seeking for may a year.

You either have Brooks shaped arse or you don't.

Perhaps thats it! I have never understood why you experienced and sensible people follow the Brooks route ( when current produce seem to have lost many of the advantages) but having tried and failed, I am back to plastic knowing I dont have tbe arse shape required!

although the modifying,adjusting and tweeking to try and find a comfortable spot still appeals and must be satisfying when you succeed

and three of my four bikes are steel so i am not a modernist

[hubner]

Maybe cut a groove for the string if you don't want it to stick out.

Re classic and retro, leather saddles died out in the 60s, possibly lingering on until the early 70s, unless your bike is more than 45 years old, they look "wrong"!

[Polar Bear]

I'd go for 2mm round profile leather lace.   I thought flat at first but then that's a blunt edge to rub against.

[Blodwyn Pig]

BP, that's interesting but what bothers me about that is that, especially from the overhead shot, it looks to me like the saddle's natural shape is distorted.

My expectation would be that the lacing simply holds the saddle wings more or less in place and thus having a dozen or so holes down each flank with a cross lacing system, the original shape would be better maintained by spreading the load.

in answer...two qoutes

''give it a go mate, she'll be right!''

'' a man who has never made a mistake, has never made anything!''

worst case.....  you'll have 2 small holes either side of an old saddle

[Polar Bear]

My plan is...

I'm going for a dozen holes and a long length of 2mm round leather lace.   My plan is to pull it 'almost' taught not putting any tension into it.   Then I will ride the saddle alternating with an unlaced one for a month and see what I think. 

[Bolt]

IME you will notice the difference immediately.  I've found that lacing works well in preserving the shape and support of the saddle and I do believe it can reduce fatigue in the tension bolt.  It might takes some experimentation to find the sweet spot, I've found that just less than taught seems to work well, you can feel how much tension the lace is under by a well placed finger under the saddle as you ride

[Blodwyn Pig]

IME you will notice the difference immediately.  I've found that lacing works well in preserving the shape and support of the saddle and I do believe it can reduce fatigue in the tension bolt.  It might takes some experimentation to find the sweet spot, I've found that just less than taught seems to work well, you can feel how much tension the lace is under by a well placed finger under the saddle as you ride

This is why zip ties cut the mustard. Sooo easy to get zipp up a tad tighter, rather than all that faffing about with knots and string, then it ends up slacker than before, especially considering its upside down, underneath the saddle, with seat post and rails in the way. Unless of course you remove the saddle every time you want to adjust, then wrestle with the lacing and the seat post clamp interaction, .all the above are why I cut off lacing and used 2 zippies .  Btw I think you will find 2 holes either side will be sufficient.

[adenough]

here is a side view, showing no hammocking,  saddle prob 25-30000km old (4-5 years) showing the zip tie used as lacing




another shot




here is the lacing arrangement ,its '  an up  and under!'  2 zip ties laced thro each other to extend length.





aerial shot, showing how little  the flat zip tie actually protrudes. 


try it,  its only 4 holes and 2 zip ties. I can lend you the holes if you like, but I'm a bit short of zip ties.

That is an odd Carradice Hack. Not seen that one before. Can you not use the tabs on the Brooks and raise the bag?

[Crumbling Nick]

All my B17s have been laced. Basically I don't have a saddle-shaped arse. I've tried lots of off-the-shelf varieties (there's a big pile of failures in the garage) and have concluded that shaping the saddle with lacing & subtle tension adjustments works least bad for me. I suspect that I'm re-inventing the wheel; I cannot believe that the serious cyclists half a century ago, when I was a mere adolescent and leather saddles were the norm, would not have found ways of shaping the leather to their own needs.

I think I've already posted some of my B17 lacing/mistakes on yacf...

Meanwhile, I suspect that one of the reasons I prefer a fixed gear is that it forces me to get out of the saddle to climb. It took me a long time to learn how to ride 100 miles in a day with gears.

[Blodwyn Pig]

here is a side view, showing no hammocking,  saddle prob 25-30000km old (4-5 years) showing the zip tie used as lacing

That is an odd Carradice Hack. Not seen that one before. Can you not use the tabs on the Brooks and raise the bag?

Ah!! the reason for this is???...................................  The saddlebag just rests on the rear rack , with this arrangement, so that when heavier items are place within, the weight is carried by the rack, and the underslung support lowers the bag just enough to do this, without it swinging under the saddle and catching the backs of my legs. clever huh!

[Kim]

Ah!! the reason for this is???...................................  The saddlebag just rests on the rear rack , with this arrangement, so that when heavier items are place within, the weight is carried by the rack, and the underslung support lowers the bag just enough to do this, without it swinging under the saddle and catching the backs of my legs. clever huh!

I think you're onto something...  If you rotated the bag by 90 degrees it would stay clear of your legs and improve the aerodynamic profile.  Of course, you wouldn't be able to hang it from the saddle rails, but maybe if you fitted straps to the underside and secured it to the rack....?

Nahh, it'd never work.

[Crumbling Nick]

You may find  this thread from 2009 helpful.

[tonyh]

Thanks!