Author Topic: [LEL17] LEL Suggestions Box  (Read 25338 times)

alfapete

  • Oh dear
Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #300 on: September 08, 2017, 06:57:05 pm »

Indeed. And quite dangerous mixed messages too. I've already had one fairly strident complaint about gluten poisoning.

Best to make it absolutely explicit - this event is not suitable for people with food allergies that cripple or kill them.

But let's not mix up the dangers of, for example, nut allergy, with the discomfort and other symptoms caused by sensitivity to gluten or coeliac disease. They probably need different guidance.
eg We cannot guarantee nut free food. We will attempt to provide a gluten-free choice at each control
alfapete - that's the Pete that drives the Alfa

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #301 on: September 09, 2017, 12:21:08 am »
Best to make it absolutely explicit - this event is not suitable for people with food allergies that cripple or kill them.

That sounds wholly and IMO unnecessarily negative.

I don't have any dietary requirements myself, so my views are necessarily secondhand - but given that my brother has coeliac disease and my wife has a string of food allergies (eggs, nuts, mushrooms, shellfish ...) that could see her whisked off to hospital, plus a wheat intolerance, I'm reasonably aware of a range of needs. (I also rode about a third of PBP with a coeliac rider, so saw how he coped there.)

I didn't see anything on LEL that would have prevented either my brother or my wife completing, had they been riding, and assuming a reasonable level of preparedness (including some iron rations in the saddlebag). They are perforce highly aware of anything that might be 'contaminated' and will ask on the merest suspicion: honest answers are very helpful - and not always forthcoming in professional establishments.

Realistically, a bit of basic forethought can make many dishes suitable for all (use GF stock cubes, use cornflour to thicken sauces), a bit of prep (have GF pasta and bread or rolls available on request) is useful, having ingredients lists available is very reassuring.

But let's not mix up the dangers of, for example, nut allergy, with the discomfort and other symptoms caused by sensitivity to gluten or coeliac disease. They probably need different guidance.
eg We cannot guarantee nut free food. We will attempt to provide a gluten-free choice at each control

Sounds about right. But what we can - or should - be able to guarantee is that *this* dish doesn't have any nuts or eggs or mushrooms or wheat in the ingredients, and that we've done our best to avoid cross-contamination. I'm pretty sure that my wife would see that as an acceptable risk, even at Eskdalemuir or Traquair, with an ambulance half an hour or an hour away.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #302 on: September 09, 2017, 08:26:45 am »
people with food allergies that cripple or kill them.

If such people are a small fraction of the riders, perhaps they could be allowed unlimited drop bags so that they can ensure there's something safe for them eat (even if it won't be hot) at every control.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #303 on: September 09, 2017, 11:15:05 am »
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.
At Loughton, on Friday, after we'd set up the lines of bike park barriers, I deliberately went along fashioning the lines into gentle zigzags, to address the structural stability issue you've identified above. They still seemed to be standing when I helped take it all down seven days later (after a late Thursday finish and a good few hours sleep in the 'registration' dorm/gym).

We were quite unlucky (but also very lucky) with the weather at Loughton. The wind that caused such misery on the Fens blew right across the school and into the barriers. Those with banners on never lasted long.

Jim's method at Spalding is the way forward, though it does take up quite a bit of space.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #304 on: September 09, 2017, 12:12:34 pm »
But let's not mix up the dangers of, for example, nut allergy, with the discomfort and other symptoms caused by sensitivity to gluten or coeliac disease. They probably need different guidance.
eg We cannot guarantee nut free food. We will attempt to provide a gluten-free choice at each control

Absolutely. I'd have to work to improve your suggested copy, though you could argue that both points boil down to the same thing. And that's the point. It's not the allergens that concern me, it's the people and how they react to them. That mean's it's people who need different guidance, and not the allergen.

We can take very easy steps to meet the needs of people for whom this is an irritation rather something that confines you to bed for a couple of days or throws you into anaphylactic shock. The wide-ranging, no-rehearsal, dispersed, pull 150 meals out of a hat nature of this event makes it too risky to make a guarantee to people with serious allergies though. The catering operation for this event is fiendishly complex already, as seen by even the professional, national operators that we use at Edinburgh and Brampton struggling at times. I cannot therefore see how I can make it safe enough for those who need it to be.

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #305 on: September 09, 2017, 05:50:13 pm »
people with food allergies that cripple or kill them.

If such people are a small fraction of the riders, perhaps they could be allowed unlimited drop bags so that they can ensure there's something safe for them eat (even if it won't be hot) at every control.

This sounds like a reasonable suggestion, assuming that food in drop bags isn't a no-no.

Alternatively, allowing them a support vehicle.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #306 on: September 10, 2017, 09:56:48 am »
Sadly it'll probably be abused (unlimited drop bags you simply claim you've got a certain allergy).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #307 on: September 10, 2017, 10:30:14 am »
I don't think you can guarantee cross-contamination, but I didn't find it that hard to provide gluten free recipes.  The most difficult part is stocks and related ingredients, however, the ones that Phil D had sourced from his catering supplier were verified by the Coeliac Society as gluten free.  If I were catering again (I'm hoping to ride the event in 2021 after 2 editions spend in kitchens), I would do the same thing again, and make sure that this option was more widely known This meant that all our soups, stews, and dhals were gluten free as was the rice and potatoes - so about 2/3 of the menu.  Nuts and eggs were relatively easy to avoid.   And Alwyn had someone that gave us an excellent briefing on the 14 allergens that need to be managed at a controllers meeting several months before the event (the one that focused on food).
Eddington Numbers 122 (imperial), 167 (metric) 511 (furlongs)  110 (nautical miles)

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #308 on: September 11, 2017, 07:25:03 am »
I asked a German if there were rides the size of LEL in Germany. He said that legal problems would make it impossible. Everyone would need an appropriate qualification. We have moved some of the way to that. If we move much further, we will not be running anything like LEL.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #309 on: September 11, 2017, 08:12:05 am »
I asked a German if there were rides the size of LEL in Germany. He said that legal problems would make it impossible.

I was assuming that one of the reasons for splitting the start into many smaller groups was to avoid having to ask for a special license* for using  the public highway for a private event.

*: there is probably a specific word for that in British legal lingua that I don't know!

eck

  • Gonna ride my bike until I get home...
    • Angus Bike Chain CC
Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #310 on: September 11, 2017, 08:44:23 am »
I asked a German if there were rides the size of LEL in Germany. He said that legal problems would make it impossible.

I was assuming that one of the reasons for splitting the start into many smaller groups was to avoid having to ask for a special license* for using  the public highway for a private event.

*: there is probably a specific word for that in British legal lingua that I don't know!
Slightly OT but when I was organising a modest audax locally, a worthy from the council informed me that I would need to apply for a "Public Procession Licence".  ??? 
It's a bit weird, but actually quite wonderful.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #311 on: September 11, 2017, 09:05:07 am »
Slightly OT but when I rode my first 600 (very long time ago) I was getting a bit weary in the small hours and stopped in some Cotswold village to sit on a bench and try for a power nap.  A local bobby strolled up and sat next to me and engaged me in friendly conversation (like people do, when you're trying to get to sleep).  I was gobsmacked to learn that he had no idea what I was doing, no idea that there were 100+ cyclists making their way through his patch at dead of night.
I had naturally assumed, when I entered and started the event, that the various police authorities along the entire route would have been made aware of the existence and timing of this cycling event on their roads.  Silly me.  ::-)
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #312 on: September 11, 2017, 11:36:15 am »
*: there is probably a specific word for that in British legal lingua that I don't know!
Slightly OT but when I was organising a modest audax locally, a worthy from the council informed me that I would need to apply for a "Public Procession Licence".  ???
[/quote]

Scottish law regarding "parades" is a bit of a mess. Edinburgh insisted I register the event as a parade. Borders did not but accepted the application. Dumgal refused to outright. Lothian ignored the application.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #313 on: September 11, 2017, 09:06:57 pm »
I'm not fully understanding this thread...

AIUI AUK members got priority entry and had several weeks to enter before entry was extended to the rest of the world. Whether the latter is by ballot or first come will inevitably be a gamble. Either way the risk lies with the rider. So be it.

Anybody can avoid that risk simply by joining AUK. Given that the net cost of riding LEL for an overseas rider must be £5-600+, spending an extra £19 to guarantee entry would seem a good investment.
Almost
Members who had been members since before April 2015 were guaranteed a place. So there is 51months of advance planning required as well as 3 years membership fees.
   E = 77  SR = 2

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #314 on: September 13, 2017, 11:19:27 am »
There is also the snag that there is an assumption that 2021 entries will follow the same pattern as the one developed for 2017. I am not suggesting they will not .. but it is an assumption that might prove to be incorrect.
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #315 on: September 13, 2017, 11:48:04 am »
I'm not fully understanding this thread...

AIUI AUK members got priority entry and had several weeks to enter before entry was extended to the rest of the world. Whether the latter is by ballot or first come will inevitably be a gamble. Either way the risk lies with the rider. So be it.

Anybody can avoid that risk simply by joining AUK. Given that the net cost of riding LEL for an overseas rider must be £5-600+, spending an extra £19 to guarantee entry would seem a good investment.
Almost
Members who had been members since before April 2015 were guaranteed a place. So there is 51months of advance planning required as well as 3 years membership fees.

Ah Ha! Thanks, I'd missed that.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #316 on: September 13, 2017, 11:50:49 am »
Slightly OT but when I rode my first 600 (very long time ago) I was getting a bit weary in the small hours and stopped in some Cotswold village to sit on a bench and try for a power nap.  A local bobby strolled up and sat next to me and engaged me in friendly conversation (like people do, when you're trying to get to sleep).  I was gobsmacked to learn that he had no idea what I was doing, no idea that there were 100+ cyclists making their way through his patch at dead of night.
I had naturally assumed, when I entered and started the event, that the various police authorities along the entire route would have been made aware of the existence and timing of this cycling event on their roads.  Silly me.  ::-)
I've had the same conversation with late night bobbies on the Elenith. After my initial explanation came the traditional enquiry, "how many days..."

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #317 on: September 23, 2017, 04:09:51 pm »
A bit late in the day, but here's a better photo of the Spalding bike parking arrangements. (Its on film which has only just been processed)

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