Audax on E-bikes.

[CSC]

My 83 year old father has expressed an interest in accompanying me on a 100k Audax event, however he rides a Giant Road E+2 electric bike.
My question is will he be allowed to take part under AUK rules or will it be down to the discretion of the event organiser?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Your father is welcome to enter and ride on an e-bike, regardless of the organiser's preference, but his brevet will not be eligible for validation.

[CSC]

Thanks, I don't suppose he's too fussed about Brevet validation, he just wants to be able to take part.

[whosatthewheel]

Actually, you can get a Brevet Populaire validated on an E-bike and a 100 km can only be a BP. I suppose longer distance BR are not suitable for e-bikes anyway, due to battery life

your dad is a legend!

[CSC]

Yes he would only ride events up to 100k as battery life limits him to around 80 miles depending on terrain.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

From the current AUK Regulations.

12. Modifications of organisation and conduct applicable to Brevets Populaire
12.1 Machines: Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (EAPCs) may be ridden but such rides are not eligible for validation.

[whosatthewheel]

From the current AUK Regulations.

12. Modifications of organisation and conduct applicable to Brevets Populaire
12.1 Machines: Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (EAPCs) may be ridden but such rides are
not eligible for validation.

The older appendix was more benign

Appendix 12.1 Events ridden on EAPCs may be counted for AUK personal awards, but not for
competitive trophies listed under Appendix 13.2

Bit short sighted, but I guess in time there will be pressure to get these brevets validated

[Pete Mas]

This inspiring post got me thinking about who was the oldest finisher at Paris Brest Paris, so I googled it and found out that the oldest finisher (at PBP 2011?) was a German who was actually 80 (but didn't look it, apparently), who finished in a time of a little over 86 hours. Anyone care to check this out further?

[CSC]

Thanks for the update, does this mean if his ride cannot be validated he need not bother getting his brevet card stamped?

Over the last 18 months the E-bike has given him a new lease of life and he is now regularly doing 100k rides through some rather lumpy Shropshire countryside, and as he regularly points out you still have to pedal.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Thanks for the update, does this mean if his ride cannot be validated he need not bother getting his brevet card stamped?

His choice. He might like to have the control stamps anyway.

[whosatthewheel]

Thanks for the update, does this mean if his ride cannot be validated he need not bother getting his brevet card stamped?

Over the last 18 months the E-bike has given him a new lease of life and he is now regularly doing 100k rides through some rather lumpy Shropshire countryside, and as he regularly points out you still have to pedal.

I think it means the brevet card will not have the AUK sticker that validates it. He can still get it stamped at the controls if he wants and I think he should... it is important that organisers see there is an uptake from e-bikers for things to change in the future.

[Pete Mas]

As organisers don't check participants' bikes at all I can imagine a situation where rides on e-bikes could have been validated anyhow..

[LittleWheelsandBig]

it is important that organisers see there is an uptake from e-bikers for things to change in the future.

Or not change.

[whosatthewheel]

it is important that organisers see there is an uptake from e-bikers for things to change in the future.

Or not change.

People buy e-bikes out of necessity, rather than choice. Choice is different, choice is an electric motor in the downtube that nobody can see, including an organiser... they don't go very far. Necessity needs to be encouraged. Current technology limits their use well outside BR and BRM events, so I don't see the problem... there is hardly any point competition for BP only. Arguably one could show up at all BP grimpeur events and bag the trophy on an E-bike,  but it wouldn't be difficult to implement a special rule for AAA points only.

[Veloman]

it is important that organisers see there is an uptake from e-bikers for things to change in the future.

Or not change.

People buy e-bikes out of necessity, rather than choice. Choice is different, choice is an electric motor in the downtube that nobody can see, including an organiser... they don't go very far. Necessity needs to be encouraged. Current technology limits their use well outside BR and BRM events, so I don't see the problem... there is hardly any point competition for BP only. Arguably one could show up at all BP grimpeur events and bag the trophy on an E-bike,  but it wouldn't be difficult to implement a special rule for AAA points only.

Big debate about this some time back and I was AGM when various views were preferred. No difference to cheating using electric assistance to cheating by any other means.  Those that wish to cheat will cheat by whatever means. Policy is as outlined. If you want change then revisit the topic via motion at AGM.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I don't see e-bikes as cheating but it isn't the same as riding by human power alone.

AUK validation recognises brevets ridden by human power alone. Your father and other e-bike riders are very welcome to ride AUK brevets, to enjoy the scenery and the company of friends. Their rides just won't be validated by AUK.

[frankly frankie]

Over the last 18 months the E-bike has given him a new lease of life and he is now regularly doing 100k rides through some rather lumpy Shropshire countryside, and as he regularly points out you still have to pedal.

Any cyclist who has (tried to) accompanied an E-biker over lumpy terrain will tell you how sickening that last remark is.  I'm glad he enjoys it.

[Kim]

I don't see e-bikes as cheating but it isn't the same as riding by human power alone.

AUK validation recognises brevets ridden by human power alone. Your father and other e-bike riders are very welcome to ride AUK brevets, to enjoy the scenery and the company of friends. Their rides just won't be validated by AUK.

This seems a perfectly sensible approach.   

[LiamFitz]

Anything that lets someone enjoy life on two wheels is OK by me. The concept of 'cheating' is pretty odd in Audax circles and certainly shouldn't be applied to someone who just wants to be part of the scene.  I hope to be riding when I'm 80 and if I need a battery to help I hope I'm still welcomed.

[Veloman]

I have no doubt you will welcomed on rides. My friend has an e-bikedue to damaged hips from previous sporting wear and tear and it means he can take part in rides he would never be able to complete: he has just finished a double C2C with some friends.

[LEE]

You can't cheat anybody but yourself at Audax in my opinion.

Some people ride on full carbon road bikes and some do it on 2-speed Onion-Johnny bikes.

The challenge of Audax is whatever you want it to be.   If your challenge is to use a hidden BB motor and pretend you are KOM then go for it.  Enough people pass me on climbs that one more won't matter.

When the time comes I'll gladly ride an E-Bike if it allows me out in the country lanes.

[Exit Stage Left]

When I was 40, electric bikes didn't exist as such. Today, friends have bikes with invisible motors in the bottom bracket. By the time I'm 80, I fully expect them to do 200km on a single charge, much as a motorbike might do today.

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts might apply, I suppose.

[inappropriate_bike]

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts might apply, I suppose.

Geeks bearing gifts?

I'd rather be overtaken by someone on an e-bike than someone in a land rover.

[Kim]

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts might apply, I suppose.

Geeks bearing gifts?

Geeks bearing .GIFs, obviously

[Exit Stage Left]

At some point there'll be velomobiles with bodies covered in solar cells, and backed by thin polymer batteries. We could have a debate every year about what's acceptable. Some like a talking shop though.