Author Topic: Canoeing and river conditions...  (Read 1937 times)

Canoeing and river conditions...
« on: 30 March, 2018, 05:38:10 pm »
Any canoeists/kayakers out there?  Where do canoes 'fit' in the following warnings.  Would they be an 'unpowered boat', or are they better able to cope with fast flow, being more manoeuvrable than larger unpowered vessels? 

Thames is mostly "Caution strong stream" atm.     http://riverconditions.environment-agency.gov.uk/

Quote
Caution strong stream
    We advise users of all boats not to navigate because the strong flows make it difficult and dangerous.
Caution stream increasing
    We advise users of all unpowered boats not to navigate and users of powered boats to find a safe mooring. This is because river flows are likely to strengthen and red boards could be displayed very soon and without warning.
Caution stream decreasing
    We advise users of all unpowered boats not to navigate and users of powered boats to navigate with caution.

Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #1 on: 30 March, 2018, 06:09:36 pm »
What are you planning to do? A kayak is more manoeuvrable but pushing a kayak against the stream is very hard work!

Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #2 on: 30 March, 2018, 06:12:31 pm »
I'd suggest it's a matter of competence and confidence.  If you're not certain, don't.

Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #3 on: 30 March, 2018, 06:26:28 pm »
For beginners, with ~1 days training to date.  I'm trying to do some research just to be informed, ahead of mini-ao's Gold DofE canoe expedition training.  I guess the organisers will have all the safety issues in hand.
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #4 on: 30 March, 2018, 06:33:32 pm »
OK - I'm an 'experienced' canoeist/kayaker, so what I regard as reasonable, is dangerous for a neophyte.

The EA is a public body, so they have to issue warnings to try accommodate the fact that people are bloody numpties.

The Thames is variable - are you talking tidal or non-tidal? If tidal stretch, then don't go on it unless you are experienced. Mostly because you are mixing it with powered boats, some big. Apart being a real pain in the arse to those boats if you get in their way, they are very restricted in their ability to maneuver so have right of way mostly (something a lot of canoeists fail to appreciate). Get in wrong and you will be squashed. Also the tidal current can sweep you quite a long way away pretty quickly, unless you are fit you might not be able to paddle against it.

Canoes are obviously an 'unpowered craft'. That doesn't mean slow; I could sustain 10kph for hours when I was fit in my K1, but most people can only manage walking pace and that for only 10-30min. If the river is flowing faster than walking speed (which is only 'slow flow' on most rivers), then it follows that most people will be swept downstream.

Basically, if you have to ask if a river is safe to paddle in, then you shouldn't be taking your canoe out on the river. It means you don't have enough experience to be out without someone to guide you. Stick to canals, small lakes or rivers with little or no flow. That might sound brutal, but it is honest. People drown when it goes wrong.

If there is a guide and some experienced people along, then it is a different matter. I've taken complete beginners down 'class 2-3' rapids in an open canoe and they felt safe with me (I'm a 'cautious' paddler). Class 2-3 would be the EA 'strong stream'.

The guide should know the waterway and the 'experienced people' be skilled at handling watercraft, able to do some teaching and help with handling multi-person craft and perform rescues.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #5 on: 30 March, 2018, 06:51:28 pm »
Thanks.  It will be non-tidal in Oxfordshire, heading downstream.  Organisers not in the actual canoes with the DofE-ers I think.
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #6 on: 30 March, 2018, 06:51:55 pm »
If mini is doing it like locally and with one of the local training groups should be OK.  They’re pretty risk averse. I know one local group had their practice Bronze expedition cancelled the other weekend because of the snow.

Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #7 on: 30 March, 2018, 07:55:13 pm »
Thanks.  It will be non-tidal in Oxfordshire, heading downstream.  Organisers not in the actual canoes with the DofE-ers I think.
That's pretty tame. I'd expect some level of training, buoyancy aids, etc, then letting them loose with some supervision from the riverbank, maybe an instructor following in a kayak.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #8 on: 30 March, 2018, 08:54:17 pm »
Thanks.  It will be non-tidal in Oxfordshire, heading downstream.  Organisers not in the actual canoes with the DofE-ers I think.
That's pretty tame. I'd expect some level of training, buoyancy aids, etc, then letting them loose with some supervision from the riverbank, maybe an instructor following in a kayak.

Thanks both.  This time apparently they are travelling some distance on their own.
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #9 on: 30 March, 2018, 09:10:12 pm »
As a former kayak owner (never very good though!) and with some experience in an open canoe (but nowhere near as much as MrC-YHT I offer the following additional advice.

1. Take particular care with navigation if the river braids into different channels, especially if one heads towards a weir... normally signposted but cross current could pull the unwary off into the wrong channel before they know what’s up.
2. Beware of areas where there are trees overhanging the outside of bends. I got swept wide and pushed under the branches once, capsized the canoe and was driven under by the force of the water. Damn near shat my wetsuit before I was able to get back to fresh air. Thought I was a gonner. Had the devil’s own job extricating the canoe too as it was half submerged and being pushed under the overgrowth.
Have a great adventure but respect the force of flowing water.  :thumbsup:

Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #10 on: 31 March, 2018, 09:40:20 am »
As a former kayaker (white water, Zambezi and Nile) I would suggest that the big problems are the weirs and overhanging trees, etc.  Even fast moving flat water is relatively safe in a large stable canoe.  Effective buoyancy aids are obvious but experience of overturning is essential.  Hitting cold water upside down with the canoe upside down is very disorientating.  Also aggressive safe swimming techniques, feet first should be practiced.

Genosse Brymbo

  • Ostalgist
Re: Canoeing and river conditions...
« Reply #11 on: 01 April, 2018, 01:38:36 pm »
Any decent DofE organisers won't take kids out when EA "red boards" are in place.  Even experienced paddlers don't do it - the river Thames clubs train during winter for the Easter Devizes-Westminster event on the nearest canal when the river is on red boards.  Here at Pangbourne the river has been on red for some time and when you walk over Whitchurch bridge you can see why.  Fast moving flat water is not safe.
The present is a foreign country: they do things differently here.