Pedestrian killed by cyclist

[HTFB]

The Metro report the prosecutor as saying "He could have moved to the other side of the road or, similarly, applied the brakes. He did neither."

That isn't at all how I'd expect the case to be put if the prosecution were claiming that he was on the pavement.

[spindrift]

Whoops, The Mail missed this alarming counter-story:


‘He did this to me but won’t be prosecuted’ - News - getreading - Reading Evening Post

[Spikey]

Swerving is not always a good option, unless you can reliably predict which way the pedestrian will move.
Swerving is often more dangerous since it makes hard braking more dangerous.

I've hit a pedestrian before when they stepped into the road before looking, and then stopped like a startled rabbit. I could have swerved to avoid him, but this relies on knowing that he wont try and dodge the same direction. Instead I chose emergency braking in a straight line, which resulted in low speed collision with no significant injury or dammage.

Admitting a collision, dosn't equate to admission of guilt.
Last year I hit a stationary car. However it was the drivers fault for pulling out out and stopping thereby blcoking the carriigeway without leaving sufficient room to brake. The driver claimed that I could have swerved round behind him which is true providing if I could have predicted his dangerous actions. In the event I braked hard, skidded and escaped with badly bent front forks.

[Gattopardo]

So admits coliding with pedestrian but the consequences of what happened are nothing to do with him?

[Polar Bear]

So admits coliding with pedestrian but the consequences of what happened are nothing to do with him?

Depends how the girl came to be in front of him.   Was his way cleared after the shout then suddenly blocked again at the very last minute?   He claims so according to some of the articles. 

[Gattopardo]

So admits coliding with pedestrian but the consequences of what happened are nothing to do with him?

Depends how the girl came to be in front of him.   Was his way cleared after the shout then suddenly blocked again at the very last minute?   He claims so according to some of the articles. 

All the different articles say different things.

But why can no one accept that the guys actions, inappropriate speed for the conditions, caused the death of another person.  Or did his actions have no affect at all, did the pedestrian just colapse and fall.

[Regulator]

The fact that he admits colliding with the girl does not mean that he intended to cause her harm or that he was necessarily acting in a dangerous manner.  20 mph is not that fast for a bike. 

If 20 mph is such a problem, why are cars allowed to go at 20 mph or faster?  After all, they're a bigger risk than a bike.

[Greenbank]

But why can no one accept that the guys actions, inappropriate speed for the conditions, caused the death of another person.  Or did his actions have no affect at all, did the pedestrian just colapse and fall.

Why does it have to be so black or white?

There's a third option, in that both have different percentages of "blame".

The court's job is to try and make sense of the evidence. I'll leave that job to them and not make snap judgements based on some pisspoor reporting.

[Polar Bear]

It's difficult to say what was wrong until we know all the facts.   From what has been published all we have is conflicting evidence so far and nothing substantial.

There seems to be concensus that the cyclist issued a verbal 'bell' if you like.

There is acceptance that she ended up on the pavement.   There is no clear evidence yet that when the impact happened who was where or how they got there.   Other than sensationalist headlines about 'speeding cyclist' there has been no evidence quoted to say that his speed was inappropriate.

If he's a prat and was on the pavement and mowed into her regardless then he deserves more than a max £2k for dangerous cycling can give him.   If he was still on the road passing the group and for some reason she suddenly came back onto the road directly into his path does that make him culpable?

At the moment most of what is being said appears to be speculation to me.   

[Gattopardo]

I'm not attempting to lay blame.

I'm pointing out that his actions have caused someone elses death.

Like saying during a war a soldier shoots another soldier (on the other side)  the other soldier is still dead and the first soldier did shoot him.

[mattc]

I'm not attempting to lay blame.

I'm pointing out that his actions have caused someone elses death.

So did the actions of the woman that gave birth to this poor girl. So what?

If you're not laying blame then what's your point?

[Gattopardo]

I'm not attempting to lay blame.

I'm pointing out that his actions have caused someone elses death.

So did the actions of the woman that gave birth to this poor girl. So what?

If you're not laying blame then what's your point?

My point is that he caused someone to no longer be alive. 

Did the incedent happen in a Cul-de-sac? or have got that from somewhere nothing to do with this?

[Greenbank]

My point is that he caused someone to no longer be alive. 

Yes, we got that.

It seems you're just reiterating the same point in the hope that it will cause a stir.

It's not adding anything of merit to the debate.

[Gattopardo]

My point is that he caused someone to no longer be alive. 

Yes, we got that.

It seems you're just reiterating the same point in the hope that it will cause a stir.

It's not adding anything of merit to the debate.

But the overall tone seems to be teenager bad and desrerved what she got,  cyclist tho a tit, good?

But as well all we know the the truth and justice will prevail.

Wondering what the stopping distance of a cycle at 20mph is?  Say compared to a car motorbike, scooter?

[gonzo]

Lynx; stopping distance will vary wildly dependant on the maintenance level and type of brakes/brake surface.

[mattc]

My point is that he caused someone to no longer be alive. 

Yes, we got that.

It seems you're just reiterating the same point in the hope that it will cause a stir.

It's not adding anything of merit to the debate.

But the overall tone seems to be teenager bad and desrerved what she got,  cyclist tho a tit, good?

But as well all we know the the truth and justice will prevail.

Wondering what the stopping distance of a cycle at 20mph is?  Say compared to a car motorbike, scooter?

How about you just stop getting worked up about something with so many unknowns and chill?

[teethgrinder]

Lynx; stopping distance will vary wildly dependant on the maintenance level and type of brakes/brake surface.

Also, whether going up or downhill and road surface. It takes longer to stop on a bumpy road. Was the road slippery?

I don't think we'll ever find the truth reading the papers. They will all put their own spin on the story and make the occasional error. It's tomorrows fish and chip wrapper.
If it happened in Buckingham town centre. Then the roads leading into the main high street are down hill. I usualy enter Buckingham at 30mph then slow down to the low 20s when it levels out. The pavements aren't very wide and I do have to watch out for pedestrians.
But we'll probably never know.

[Jaded]

Maybe she was pushed (nudged) into the road and he was shouting "I can't stop!".

Journalists quite often write their slant on a story! Shock Horror!

Lynx: Have you never read the Socialist Worker report on a story and compared it with the Daily Mail report of the same incident?

As others have said, probably time to chill and let the court decide.

[spindrift]

That crappy mens' magazine FHM used to have gruesome photos in, a torn off limb from a tug of war, gore like that. A girl was shown one of these pictures outside a newsagents , fainted, hit her head and died.  Head injuries can be very serious in quite small falls, from painful exerience your body absorbs most of the energy if you cycle into a pedestrian but you or they can fall awkwardly and hit your head and...

Horrible story, just so sad.

[rogerzilla]

BBC NEWS | England | Beds/Bucks/Herts | Death cyclist fine angers family

Note this is still 2.2 times the fine received by the van driver who killed Andrew Rawlings on the Dun Run.  He was driving on the wrong side of the road, tried to leave the scene and according to those who dragged him from the cab, had been drinking (although he was within the legal limit).

[Polar Bear]

I'm not attempting to lay blame.

I'm pointing out that his actions have caused someone elses death.

So did the actions of the woman that gave birth to this poor girl. So what?

If you're not laying blame then what's your point?

My point is that he caused someone to no longer be alive. 

Did the incedent happen in a Cul-de-sac? or have got that from somewhere nothing to do with this?

We do not actually know the cause, we know the consequence.   The cause is a series of events probably starting in the shouted warning from the cyclist and ending in the girl passing away.   The events in between these are still being pieced together in court.   They may never be truly known.

I refer back to an earlier post of mine:   If the girl was pushed by a friend into the path of the oncoming cyclist is the cyclist at fault, the friend, both, or neither?   

The loss of a life so young is a tragedy.   The circumstances surrounding it can best be described I suggest as an accident as I am sure absolutely nobody involved on that fateful day intended such an outcome.   

My view on the law is that it should dwell on facts rather than emotions and discover the truth where at all possible, then punish according to what is set out in guidelines.   This may seem absurd in some cases but a legal sytem should be there to establish truth and facts, not hysterically marginalise in any way for any prejudiced reason.   It must be absolutely impartial and level-headed at all times.

The press will in this country always look for the sensationalist angle.   This sort of reporting does nobody any favours, especially the family and friends of the unfortunate.

[Jaded]

The media like to report interesting and unusual stories.

It is neither interesting nor unusual for a pedestrian to be killed by a car unless it is a mother and/or baby in pram. It is very interesting for a cyclist to do the same as it is so rare.

Most policemen, journalists, judges, juries, CCTV operators, witnesses, members of the public are drivers, but not cyclists. The probability is that those that are cyclists are Center Parcs cyclists. I don't expect that it all the people involved in this case there are many that have had a group of youths near the roadside behave in a way that can be interpreted as being threatening.

[rogerzilla]

The usual advice when you're cycling and confronted by a group of youths in the road is to charge so that they step back.  I may be wrong, but I think it's actually in Richard's Bicycle Book.  It got me out of trouble once, when a gang appeared to be intent on stealing my bike.  It might be considered self-defence if there is a clear threat.

I don't know if that's what happened here, as we don't have a full transcript of the court case.

[Jaded]

Yes, I'm not saying that is what happened, but it would put his actions in a slightly different light if it is what happened.

What it also does is cast doubt on the advisability of following the advice as to how to deal with youths.

[Pete]

When I did a turn serving on a jury, it was re-emphasised to us time and time again by the judge: we may only convict the defendant if it has been proved beyond a shadow of doubt that he/she was guilty.  We as a jury heeded that warning.

I think there is plenty of room for doubt in this case.  The cyclist should appeal.  If it had been a motorist, even a charge of Driving Without Due Care might not have stuck.  I have also had to avoid drunks spilling out across the road.  We all have.  Luckly for me, and for the drunken yobs involved, I have never hit any of them yet.  I hope I never do.  For a number of reasons....