Police advised: Ignore bad driving complaints, it's too much work

[AndyK]

Barking advice to police regarding increasing amount of helmet camera evidence of dangerous driving:

A prosecution for an offence via a clip submitted in such a manner is unlikely and therefore the value of such clips should be taken as limited. If Forces are seeking an appropriate response, I would recommend that in most cases, a suitable letter to the registered owner of the vehicle would be proportionate where the submitted clips meet a high enough standard; You may wish to consider making a clear policy decision not to act upon submitted video clips where the volume becomes unmanageable; The idea of a ‘vigilante’ approach of members of the public standing by the side of the road with mobile phones and video cameras should be argued against for safety reasons.

(my bold)

http://www.bikehub.co.uk/news/sustainability/motorists-careful-youre-being-filmed/

[clarion]

So they want to ignore evidence of dangerous lawbreaking? 

Northamptonshire have form.

[perpetual dan]

If the police have a stated policy of ignoring evidence of crimes a "vigilante" approach is one of the few things that is left.
I believe in justice, I believe in vengeance...

Can I ask, who was she addressing when making the statement? The tone is advising someone on making policy decisions - is this addressed to other forces?

[hatler]

How unbelievably short-sighted.

If prosecution comes to be expected then the incident rate will fall.

What are the police for again ?   Am I missing something ?

[spindrift]

I don't think she understand the word "vigilante", otherwise speed cameras are also vigilantes.

[Redlight]

"members of the public standing by the side of the road with mobile phones and video cameras should be argued against for safety reasons."

Whose safety?

[spindrift]

A prosecution for an offence via a clip submitted in such a manner is unlikely

She's plain wrong there, there have been quite a few convictions, mikey and gaz and a few others have secured convictions. I don't understand how you can film criminal behaviour likely to harm others and a senior copper says the film should be ignored.

[rafletcher]

A prosecution for an offence via a clip submitted in such a manner is unlikely

She's plain wrong there, there have been quite a few convictions, mikey and gaz and a few others have secured convictions. I don't understand how you can film criminal behaviour likely to harm others and a senior copper says the film should be ignored.

The comment was that conviction was unlikely, not impossible. The volume of clips being emailed in may well be large - and not all will be clear cut illustrations of wrongdoing. Sadly it may be a case of the noise from many overshadowing the clear message of a few.

[Charlotte]

A senior police officer advising colleagues to NFA credible, substantiated reports of serious criminal behaviour?

Bloody hell, that's awful - she should stand to lose her job.

[clarion]

But she won't.

[Wowbagger]

A prosecution for an offence via a clip submitted in such a manner is unlikely

She's plain wrong there, there have been quite a few convictions, mikey and gaz and a few others have secured convictions. I don't understand how you can film criminal behaviour likely to harm others and a senior copper says the film should be ignored.

The comment was that conviction was unlikely, not impossible. The volume of clips being emailed in may well be large - and not all will be clear cut illustrations of wrongdoing. Sadly it may be a case of the noise from many overshadowing the clear message of a few.

I have absolutely no doubt that a great deal of the "evidence" provided to the police is unreliable. Their job is to sift through the pile in order to find the stuff that they can act upon.

[phil d]

Yes but.  We know that resorces are ever-decreasing, and this may well be a perfectly valid judgement that the (possibly very few) valid clips might be swamped by a enormous number of invalid (whether poor quality, not actually criminal activity or just unlikely to stand up in court) clips making viewing them all an unacceptable waste of valuable resource.

I don't like it either.  Neither do I like the economic situation that has us in this position.  Sometimes unpleasant decisions have to be made.

[Julian]

That is appalling.  What else does she think should be swept under the carpet if there's too much of it?  Drugs cases?  Burglaries? 

It also makes me wonder whether there is a market for a private prosecutor who will take these and then refer them (the CPS are obligated to act on referrals from private prosecutors, even if it's only to say naff off.)  If there is, I might talk to the Bar Council about accepting instructions.

[clarion]

Interesting.

[perpetual dan]

Also relevant (and quoting the same guidance):

In relation to the concept of prosecution of mobile phone and other minor traffic offences from video submissions where [an] accident has not occurred...

from http://www.croydoncyclist.co.uk/new-police-guidelines-for-video-footage/

When I (skim) read http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_prosecuting_cases_of_bad_driving/ dangerous driving seems to refer to a danger of injury / damage rather than any actual incident.

[Exit Stage Left]

That is appalling.  What else does she think should be swept under the carpet if there's too much of it?  Drugs cases?  Burglaries? 

It also makes me wonder whether there is a market for a private prosecutor who will take these and then refer them (the CPS are obligated to act on referrals from private prosecutors, even if it's only to say naff off.)  If there is, I might talk to the Bar Council about accepting instructions.

You could get someone to review the e-mailed videos for likely success of prosecution, it shouldn't take much training, and you're under no obligation to serve the public. You could pay minimum wage, or per successful prosecution. You'd fairly soon build up an idea of strike rate from submissions. Obviously you could get your costs down to below the police very easily.
Give it a year or so and you'd be able to offshore the triage and a junior could do all the work and you could cream off some of the profits.

[Exit Stage Left]

I actually read the link.

PoliceWitness.com was set up by former police chief Alan Featherstone of Northamptonshire. PoliceWitness.com retails the ‘Justice’ camera and also sells a hi-vis vest emblazoned with the site name (and the word ‘Police’ in large letters to grab cyclists more passing room).

However, Policewitness.com is not recommended by the police. In 2011, Suzette Davenport, Deputy Chief Constable, Northamptonshire Police, wrote to road policing colleagues saying any implied police endorsement of the site was wholly wrong and that video evidence may not always be the best evidence:
 
“In relation to the concept of prosecution of mobile phone and other minor traffic offences from video submissions from this company, I have sought guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and expert advice from Roads Policing colleagues. It is the opinion of such experts that a prosecution for offences based solely upon this video evidence is unlikely. I also have concerns that such an approach effectively removes the level of discretion and professional judgement used by officers when dealing with incidents or offences of this type, the value of which cannot be underplayed.
 
“Policewitness.com [urges] members of the public to stand at the side of the road with their mobile phones and other video equipment to capture drivers they believed were committing offences. I have publicly advised against this for two main reasons. Firstly, anyone engaged in such activities may be exposed to a risk of confrontation from those allegedly committing offences. Secondly, there is a heightened risk to members of the public not wearing high visibility clothing from traffic on a busy or fast road.

“A prosecution for an offence via a clip submitted in such a manner is unlikely and therefore the value of such clips should be taken as limited. If Forces are seeking an appropriate response, I would recommend that in most cases, a suitable letter to the registered owner of the vehicle would be proportionate where the submitted clips meet a high enough standard; You may wish to consider making a clear policy decision not to act upon submitted video clips where the volume becomes unmanageable; The idea of a ‘vigilante’ approach of members of the public standing by the side of the road with mobile phones and video cameras should be argued against for safety reasons.”

The story is about an ex-copper trying to cash in, and being rebuffed by his old force, who don't want to be seen to be endorsing a commercial site.

[spindrift]

I'd point out to DCC Davenport that maybe cyclists are using cameras to film commutes because so many people were disgusted at the dog's breakfast the cops made of the Eilidh Cairn's death investigation, a complete failure by the police that resulted in another senseless death later. So, even when there's evidence the cops cock the whole thing up, and now they're suggesting they won't even look at evidence.

[Exit Stage Left]

Policewitness.com would seem to be the kind of business that Julian thought might work.
http://www.policewitness.com/
It would seem to be a combination of claim-farming and camera sales, with a sideline in vi-vis jackets that border on impersonating a Police Officer. I'm not surprised that Northants Police have sought to distance themselves from it.
The story seems to date back to November 2011.

[clarion]

That is not at all what Julian suggested.

[Exit Stage Left]

That is not at all what Julian suggested.

You're quite right, Julian's business model was weaker, it didn't have the sales element, and it takes the gall of an ex-Assistant Chief Constable to try to imply Police approval.

[perpetual dan]

The story is about an ex-copper trying to cash in, and being rebuffed by his old force, who don't want to be seen to be endorsing a commercial site.

True, but the advice is intended to apply to all videos from the public, not just those coming from that particular site. (As clarified in the link I put up before).

It is still worth reporting bad driving. If there's evidence that an incident isn't isolated then that has to be taken into account if a case ever does get to court.

[Exit Stage Left]

Policewitness would also seem to have the right to re-use any material you send them, so there's another revenue stream for them.

With the exception of personally identifiable information, the use of which is covered under our Privacy Policy, any material you send or post to this website shall be considered non-proprietary and not confidential. Unless you advise to the contrary, we will be free to copy, disclose, distribute, incorporate and otherwise use such material for any and all purposes.

http://www.policewitness.com/terms-and-conditions/

You pay them for a HD camera, buy a Hi Vis jacket from them, stand around filming traffic, send them the footage and they can flog it on for 'Police Camera Action' shows.

[mattc]

You pay them for a HD camera, buy a Hi Vis jacket from them, stand around filming traffic, send them the footage and they can flog it on for 'Police Camera Action' shows.

Do they have any actual confirmed idiots customers yet?!?

[sas]

You could get someone to review the e-mailed videos for likely success of prosecution, it shouldn't take much training, and you're under no obligation to serve the public. You could pay minimum wage, or per successful prosecution. You'd fairly soon build up an idea of strike rate from submissions. Obviously you could get your costs down to below the police very easily.
Give it a year or so and you'd be able to offshore the triage and a junior could do all the work and you could cream off some of the profits.

Or take advantage of the latest buzzword and crowdsource it. Create a website where people can link to videos. Restrict it to cyclists, perhaps make it part of an existing cycle forum, and encourage people to rate the videos in terms of whether they constitute good evidence or not. Add some magic meta-moderation in so that people who just rate everything at maximum are ignored.