Author Topic: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?  (Read 17923 times)

rr

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #25 on: 04 November, 2015, 07:33:18 pm »
I rate my Radbot 1000 compared to the Smart clones for daylight.  It's a little bit brighter, and has a super-obnoxious disco mode that's just the thing for standing out in fog, snow or heavy rain.  Bracket compatible with the Smart/Phaart, and designed in such a way that gravity keeps the water out of the switch.

The sinusoidal throb mode is good at night, though for everyone who congratulates you for having a visible but non-obnoxious rear light there'll be someone complaining that it hypnotises them.  I generally switch it off and run on the B&M 4DToplight alone when riding in a group.


The Moon Comet I've got on my Brompton is also astoundingly bright, but it's a USB rechargeable affair with strictly commuter runtimes.  It's also not particualrly cheap.  The key feature is a proper saddle-rail bracket.
I bought a pair of the moon comets when they recently appeared as ALDI premium lights at £7, they also appear to be available on aliexpress at a similar price.
I bought them specifically for dawn/dusk winter commuting because of being very bright and a bright/very bright flashing mode an additional benefit is they are very visible from a 180° arc.
I have dremel molised the saddle bracket into a seat stay bracket. 

mattc

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Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #26 on: 04 November, 2015, 07:36:26 pm »
Is flashing better?
recent experience of my fellow commuters says you dont need it. Current tech is cheap enough that you get a VERY bright and visible rear light even without flashing.

Flashers just irritate everyone (as well as adding confusion, possibly dangerously so). Not just us keyboard warriors - I regularly get complaints from motoring colleagues about bikes they see in the morning (and this has been happening for 3-4 years at last count).


I think they only make sense if you have a very feeble light and its not properly dark, or you have a battery life issue (which mostly only happens with bad planning for modern tail-lights).
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #27 on: 04 November, 2015, 07:59:21 pm »
Dinotte 400
Pricey but good.
Seconded. I use mine all year round.

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #28 on: 04 November, 2015, 08:32:47 pm »
Is flashing better?
recent experience of my fellow commuters says you dont need it. Current tech is cheap enough that you get a VERY bright and visible rear light even without flashing.

Flashers just irritate everyone (as well as adding confusion, possibly dangerously so). Not just us keyboard warriors - I regularly get complaints from motoring colleagues about bikes they see in the morning (and this has been happening for 3-4 years at last count).


I think they only make sense if you have a very feeble light and its not properly dark, or you have a battery life issue (which mostly only happens with bad planning for modern tail-lights).

It is over 12 years since I got run down from behind using a flashing rear light. The driver didn't see me; he might have been going too fast (well over 50km/h) but subsequently I paid a bit of attention and there is nothing like a flashing rear light for disappearing into the clutter of car rear and brake lights. If you don't want to be seen amongst a load of cars at going home time use a flashing rear light!

Kim

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Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #29 on: 04 November, 2015, 08:45:58 pm »
It is over 12 years since I got run down from behind using a flashing rear light. The driver didn't see me; he might have been going too fast (well over 50km/h) but subsequently I paid a bit of attention and there is nothing like a flashing rear light for disappearing into the clutter of car rear and brake lights. If you don't want to be seen amongst a load of cars at going home time use a flashing rear light!

Yeah, but the sane options aren't "flashing" or "static".  They're "flashing + static" or "static".

So, assuming you've got a static light, is adding a flashing one beneficial?  I reckon the potential advantages are:

1) A flashing light gets people's attention, so they look in the direction of your static light and might judge your position and speed.
2) A flashing light denotes a pedal cycle.

The second I reckon is only really important if you have a pair of static rear lights some horizontal distance apart, which might reasonably be misinterpreted as a more distant motor vehicle.  Probably only relevant to trikes, trailers and cargo cycles.  But you could argue that it helps a two-wheeler stand out in city clutter.

AUIU the psychology behind the attention-getting principle is a sound one (parallels with safety beacons in aviation), but the question is whether this translates to a safety benefit - or indeed the opposite - on the road.


There's also a practical engineering benefit that a flashing light uses less average power, which means it can be brighter than a static light with the same energy source and thermal limitations.  Potentially useful in daylight, but decreasingly so as technology improves.


And there's the pragmatic view that in the unlikely event of some idiot motorist driving into you after failing to look properly, being able to say that you were lit up like a Christmas tree might count in your favour.

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #30 on: 04 November, 2015, 11:06:48 pm »
It is over 12 years since I got run down from behind using a flashing rear light. The driver didn't see me; he might have been going too fast (well over 50km/h) but subsequently I paid a bit of attention and there is nothing like a flashing rear light for disappearing into the clutter of car rear and brake lights. If you don't want to be seen amongst a load of cars at going home time use a flashing rear light!

Yeah, but the sane options aren't "flashing" or "static".  They're "flashing + static" or "static".

So, assuming you've got a static light, is adding a flashing one beneficial?  I reckon the potential advantages are:

1) A flashing light gets people's attention, so they look in the direction of your static light and might judge your position and speed.
2) A flashing light denotes a pedal cycle.

The second I reckon is only really important if you have a pair of static rear lights some horizontal distance apart, which might reasonably be misinterpreted as a more distant motor vehicle.  Probably only relevant to trikes, trailers and cargo cycles.  But you could argue that it helps a two-wheeler stand out in city clutter.

AUIU the psychology behind the attention-getting principle is a sound one (parallels with safety beacons in aviation), but the question is whether this translates to a safety benefit - or indeed the opposite - on the road.


There's also a practical engineering benefit that a flashing light uses less average power, which means it can be brighter than a static light with the same energy source and thermal limitations.  Potentially useful in daylight, but decreasingly so as technology improves.


And there's the pragmatic view that in the unlikely event of some idiot motorist driving into you after failing to look properly, being able to say that you were lit up like a Christmas tree might count in your favour.

I think flashing is really only beneficial.in daylight and if it's 'properly bright'. It's just to attract attention.

Sometimes, if a moron runs you down you won't be able to say anything afterwards I'm afraid.

Kim

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Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #31 on: 04 November, 2015, 11:24:47 pm »
Sometimes, if a moron runs you down you won't be able to say anything afterwards I'm afraid.

You're right.  Best not to go out without wearing a car.

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #32 on: 05 November, 2015, 12:12:18 am »
Is flashing better?
recent experience of my fellow commuters says you dont need it. Current tech is cheap enough that you get a VERY bright and visible rear light even without flashing.

Flashers just irritate everyone (as well as adding confusion, possibly dangerously so). Not just us keyboard warriors - I regularly get complaints from motoring colleagues about bikes they see in the morning (and this has been happening for 3-4 years at last count).


I think they only make sense if you have a very feeble light and its not properly dark, or you have a battery life issue (which mostly only happens with bad planning for modern tail-lights).

I once had a motorist shouting out of his window that my flashing light was distracting him.

He didn't say what it was distracting him from ;)

Fuck 'em.

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #33 on: 05 November, 2015, 12:20:02 am »
Sometimes, if a moron runs you down you won't be able to say anything afterwards I'm afraid.

You're right.  Best not to go out without wearing a car.

good thought - I hadn't actually considered that as a reasonable approach;)

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #34 on: 05 November, 2015, 10:18:01 am »
I once had a motorist shouting out of his window that my flashing light was distracting him.

He didn't say what it was distracting him from ;)

Fuck 'em.
Probably from looking at his pratnav or phone.

If I'm riding solo I prefer two different types of light both on flashing. The flashes don't sync so really stand out.

The radot sinusoidal brightness has an odd effect for following riders - it varies intensity just a bit too fast for eyes to adapt. So it goes from dim to eye-searing intensity then just as your eye adapts it goes dim again. Quite odd (last time I had discussion about this it was with jogler, ISTR,  :'()
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #35 on: 05 November, 2015, 10:32:41 am »
What was particularly hilarious was that I was on a wide rural road with no traffic.  What was I distracting him from?  The whole purpose of the lights is to distract him ;)


Karla

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Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #37 on: 05 November, 2015, 10:41:42 am »
Ultra-bright rear lights for daytime use are common in time trialling, so a look over on TTF should give you some suggestions.

They/we use  USE Exposure Flash/Flare http://www.ultimatesportsengineering.com/exposure-lights/cycle-lights-2016/flash-flare-pack, in flashing or constant mode (front flash, rear steady). They are small but have an odd bracket/cradle in which the lamp sits, cantilevering outwards. To stop them falling off (bumps) they need a zip-tie. And they have an odd size CR123 rechargeable battery (but do come with charging unit).

For audax/commuting, I run my Schmidt hub denerator with B&M's D Toplight Line Plus rear rack-mounter. Been complimented by other cyclists on its day-light visibility from several hundred yards. And it is very not-heavy at about 53g. http://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-ruecklicht/toplight-line-plus.html

A number of people seem to have had quality issues with the Flare.  The Micro Drive seemed to replace it as the TT rear light of choice a couple of years ago, as they're better quality and can be charged by USB.  A lot of people now seem to be moving onto things like the Four4h Scorpion, which I wouldn't recommend to the OP as it definitely isn't a nighttime light, and has a 'green' (white) mode that isn't even road legal.

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #38 on: 05 November, 2015, 10:43:28 am »
Just putting this into the mix

I don't think the driver was expressing his anger through a concern for my safety ;)

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #39 on: 05 November, 2015, 11:10:15 am »
Flashing lights catch attention from a long way off, which is good, but experiments show that flashers are harder to pinpoint the location of than steady lights. It's therefore best to have a steady light for when a motor vehicle approaches you from behind - because that's the dangerous time. A flashing light to catch their attention first is an optional (but potentially useful) extra, as Kim says.

The steady light should be visible from a wide angle, so that it's visible to anyone approaching from other than straight behind, & to anyone who is passing you.


Ultra-bright point source lights can dazzle anyone coming up behind you, & disappear from their sight when you really need them to see you. I'd smash the lot of them & stuff the fragments down the throats of their designers, if I could.

When motorists say that a flashing light is distracting, they can be telling the truth. It may disturb their vision without giving them a good idea of where the bike is. Good that they know the bike is somewhere out there, but a driver who can't see clearly & can't locate the bike that's somewhere out there is not what you want when you're cycling. The point is to stay alive.

Big red glow, that's what you want. Doesn't have to be super-bright, as long as it's bright enough. A little flasher that doesn't dazzle but catches the eye early on is a nice supplement, but not an ideal substitute.


None of this should be controversial. It annoys me that a lot of bike light designers pay no attention to the research on visibility, & merely boost the brightness, ignoring essentials such as off-axis visibility - & cyclists fall for it.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #40 on: 05 November, 2015, 11:13:50 am »
What was particularly hilarious was that I was on a wide rural road with no traffic.  What was I distracting him from?  The whole purpose of the lights is to distract him ;)
No. See above. It's to show him (1) that you're out there & (2) exactly where, both without reducing his ability to see anything else.

See this -
Quote
The radot sinusoidal brightness has an odd effect for following riders - it varies intensity just a bit too fast for eyes to adapt. So it goes from dim to eye-searing intensity then just as your eye adapts it goes dim again. Quite odd
Sounds like a suicide light, designed to disrupt the eyesight of drivers.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #41 on: 05 November, 2015, 11:43:34 am »
No, its purpose to distract him away from whatever his attention was on (phone, satnav, daydream etc) and focus it on me, thanks.

It worked. He didn't like it. For him to take umbrage demonstrates the state of mind he was in, which was unlikely to be one of concentration and consideration for others.

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #42 on: 05 November, 2015, 12:53:24 pm »
Dinotte 400
Pricey but good.
Seconded. I use mine all year round.

Going back a few years now but my first experience of De Sisti was wondering "WTF?" the rear light was on the rider about 500 metres ahead of me, on the Kennet Valley 200.

It was De Sisti and his Dinotte.

Tesco (don't laugh) sell a rear light for £10 that is very eye-catching, even in daylight.
Looks similar to this posted above (but not the same) and has a very annoying (See: Noticeable) asymmetric flash pattern.

Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #43 on: 05 November, 2015, 01:07:01 pm »
The Planet x Pharrt lights as per pic above are often on sale for about £3.50

Best back for buck light out there, and although the internal build quality is about the same standard as a Christmas cracker toy, at least the two parts don't separate easily when on a bumpy road like some of the more expensive Smart and Electron ones.

Yeah, but if you really want bright it has to be the Donotte 400. I think it may have be mine that inspired De sisti

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #44 on: 05 November, 2015, 02:02:58 pm »
Anyone tried something like this, DIY or otherwise..?

Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #45 on: 05 November, 2015, 02:22:29 pm »
Just putting this into the mix

 :thumbsup: This is why broken down cars on the hard shoulders of motorways get hit for no apparent reason.

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #46 on: 05 November, 2015, 02:24:29 pm »
Anyone tried something like this, DIY or otherwise..?



They can be easily made with empty milk canisters, a pair of scissors and a paper punch.

Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #47 on: 05 November, 2015, 02:29:31 pm »
Eveready once marketed a lamp pair. The rear lamp was a front lamp with a red lens.


Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #48 on: 05 November, 2015, 02:30:28 pm »
Anyone tried something like this, DIY or otherwise..?

Interesting!

Assuming Trumps the Ghost doesn't count (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=70801.msg1589451#msg1589451, scroll down a few photos, incidentally confirms I was indeed using a Phaart dual beepamawotsit on that night ride ride), I have sometimes been known to angle a 99p flasher onto the side of my pannier to light up a bigger area on my bike rather than having a more point source shining off into the distance. (Had the regular main rear light too.)

Kim

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Re: Which rear light for very dense fog and daylight?
« Reply #49 on: 05 November, 2015, 02:32:50 pm »
Eveready once marketed a lamp pair. The rear lamp was a front lamp with a red lens.

And other than the suicidal brackets and the battery life measured in minutes, they were pretty good rear lamps.

I think the closest thing available today are the excellent ring-style dyanmo lights.