[LEL17] LEL fitness - what's really required

[Redlight]

I slept for maybe 12.5 hours on LEL and 6 hours on PBP, so I must've spent large chunks of time sat in controls, ahem, "meditating" or something 

A 45 minute catnap in a chair at each control  - apart from Fougeres, where I slept for two hours on the grass - was sufficient to get me back from Brest last time around. I guess it's a bit like meditating.

[MAC]

Fitness? Depends how you define it and what you are aiming for.

If you consider it not just a measure of physical ability and rather "the quality of being suitable to fulfil a particular role or task" (Oxford Living Dictionaries, 2016) then for me I will be looking at new shoes to avoid the hot spots I got on day 4 and 5 in 2013. They are looking a bit tatty now and will likely fall to bits in the next few months anyway. Oh, suppose I should also try and lose the two stone i've put on as well.

What is a power meter?

Reference
Oxford Living Dictionaries. (2016). Fitness. Retrieved from https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fitness

[citoyen]

Fitness? Depends how you define it

Apparently, there's this guy called Coggan and he has a chart which gives you a score for your fitness based on something called FTP, to measure which you need a device attached to your bike that may well cost more than the bike itself.

This is perfectly relevant to most cyclists, obviously.

[rob]

Fitness? Depends how you define it

Apparently, there's this guy called Coggan and he has a chart which gives you a score for your fitness based on something called FTP, to measure which you need a device attached to your bike that may well cost more than the bike itself.

This is perfectly relevant to most cyclists, obviously.

Snigger

[MAC]

Apparently, there's this guy called Coggan and he has a chart which gives you a score for your fitness based on something called FTP, to measure which you need a device attached to your bike that may well cost more than the bike itself.

This is perfectly relevant to most cyclists, obviously.

Coggan, FTP, more £££ than the bike!!? I'm no luddite (i do prefer an Etrex 20 to a routesheet) but I cannot envisage how such an approach would help me. New shoes and a strict weight loss diet for a couple of months will do just fine. If others do then good for them. I want to complete a challenging but fun bicycle ride. I can't be arsed getting too analytical. Good Lord, next I'll be advised to remove mudguards to increase aero efficiency by X%!

[igauk]

I don't see the point in spending hundreds on a power metre either, unless you're a serious racer. That being said, circumstances mean I need to do most of my training (well, I've mastered the carboloading and recuperation parts) on the turbo trainer and the trainer road site has an estimated power output profile for a host of turbo trainers. Ergo, I've found their plans effective even with my half-arsed commitment and training by power/watts more useful than heart rate, perceived effort etc.

Anyway, to bring this back to the OP don't dismiss some quality indoor sessions. It's relatively easy to see your progress or lack thereof and it got be round PBP fine. Except for my right knee, but as that only started giving me gyp after 800km there's not much road kms I could have done beforehand to reveal that issue.

[Phil W]

Use shorter rides to keep your speed and fitness up.  Use the longer rides to work out your bike setup, your clothing, food and drink that works, a sustainable pace over the long haul, and learn to recognise mental lows and how you can best recognise and deal with them early on. Capturing the mental highs, and learning how to hold on to them is also equally useful

For LEL2013 I had a daily 20 mile (round trip) commute by bike, a CTC social ride (1/3 of the time spent drinking) on Wednesday nights, and a single SR series plus 80-100 mile rides on a Saturday or Sunday morning when I could fit them in. I got round LEL2013 comfortably despite early digestive issues that I didn't recover from till Moffat.   Having said that it was almost a flip of the coin whether I quit at Brampton when I'd slowed to crawl, had stomach cramps been sick, and was at a  mental low.  Just getting up, getting on the bike and turning the pedals north and see what happened saved me.  I was well on the way to recovery by the time I hit the next control Moffat.  So agreed as per above posts, fitness and speed will make it more comfortable, mental fortitude will get you through to the end.

I was going to mention comfort but since you have the M5; I'll keep my mouth shut being a recent convert to the dark side

[L.Lagopus]

I'd say being able to produce 4 watts/kg (for an hour, i.e. at FTP) is vastly in excess of what's needed to complete LEL. Such a rider will typically cruise around at 30 km/h and get oodles of sleep.

I am new to audax (first SR this year) and have power figures for all my rides. My FTP is 197 watts, and I (just) managed the BCM weighing 74 kg with a meagre 2.7 watts/kg at FTP (so according to Coggan's classification I'm "untrained" or "not a racer"!). This is probably more like the actual minimum power figure for a full value LEL effort: with good control discipline you'd just get enough time for adequate sleep.

Of course more is always nice, and "weight down, power up" is my mantra for my about-to-start LEL training -- but I'm sure many other factors are just as, or more, important as others have said.

In contrast to my friend Alex, I have no clue what my FTP is, nor how much power I'm outputting on a ride.  I've ridden both LEL (2013) and PBP (2015) and got around both at just over 20kph moving average, with lousy control discipline and really poor sleep ... "no plan survives contact with the enemy" and all that.

That said, Alex has been somewhat scientific in his approach to training this year and he has visibly improved —  — so it's not a bad thing to know your numbers per se, nor to use that data to pace your ride, but it is certainly NOT necessary to do so for a successful LEL attempt.  I think most entrants will have no idea what their FTP is nor what their realtime power output is either.

Just a thought: 1420km @ 20kph = 71 hours moving time.  17 controls @ 1 hour each = 17 hours.  116h40m - 71h - 17h = 28 hours.  Expect to sleep for just (!!) 27 hours then between Sunday and Thursday and finish with an hour in hand.  Ride faster to leave more time at the controls.  Control quicker to leave more time for sleep.  And then expect to be unable to get a bed at the first night's stop when everyone else is trying to do the same.  And expect to be kicked out of bed after a few hours because someone else needs it.  When I do this sum I'm left thinking "where did the time go?!" — I slept for maybe 12.5 hours on LEL and 6 hours on PBP, so I must've spent large chunks of time sat in controls, ahem, "meditating" or something 

Knowing power numbers is entirely unnecessary for a ride like LEL. But a power meter is a hugely effective training tool. Especially for those of us with family, jobs, etc. that severely limit training time, a power meter and something like Trainerroad can help make the most of the few hours per week that we can spend on the bike. 

[Divingrob]

Great thread.

I've done my first SR this year and still not sure if I can do LEL. Thankfully by the looks of things I'm not the only one doubting their ability over the longer distances. If it was easy everybody would do it !!!

I'm 60:40 at the moment in favor of doing the ride.

[The French Tandem]

I've done my first SR this year and still not sure if I can do LEL.

Judging by this bit of information, the answer is clearly yes, you can do it. Until 2012, our longest ever 2 days ride was a 500 km, then early in 2013, we completed an SR and a few weeks later, completed LEL with a comfortable time bufffer!

[Somnolent]

Ditto, first SR in 2012, with very little time to spare on the 600, (and not much quicker in 2013) but still got round LEL despite mechanicals and right quadriceps giving up the ghost southbound.

[ElyDave]

well, apart from the almost predictable pointless replies, I can only say thanks to everyone on this one.

Sounds like the general impression is "work on the mental side of stuff, that's the key to this", which I quite realise.

Overall I'm a good planner, which means that I've understood my current capabilities, nutritional needs and some idea of mental toughness up to a point.

Next steps

Audax on the M5 this weekend
More audaxes
At least a 300 or 400 once I have sufficient illumination, maybe nearer April than November 
More audaxes
Ride some more

[redfalo]

As many have noted previously, the physical fitness is only one part of the equation. Mental fortitude is also very important, as the ability to cope with sleep deprivation and the discomfort related to spend long hours in the saddle. Efficiency at controls is also paramount.

I think that mental fortitude, as well as control efficiency  is largely a function of experience. I started my Audaxing life in the summer of 2014, and during the dozen or so 200k rides, I had the feeling that I was learning something new on every ride. Until today, the same is still true for 400+ km rides.

The really long rides are particularly helpful in learning that your body is able to overcome really bad patches. Even the strongest riders have their dark moments where you feel really rotten and will wonder how on earth you will be able to complete this. I hit this point usually at around the 350 to 450 km mark. As somebody here once said very aptly: "Always remember: no matter how bad you are felling, it will get better if you continue." That's really true, but you will only get this experience on really long rides.

Another important bit to learn is pacing yourself properly. Many people start too fast (for me) on Audaxes, and it is so easy to get sucked into this and pay the price later. Happened to me more than once, until I started to keep a close eye on my heart rate. I'm trying to keep it below 125 in the first hours of any ride longer than 100km.

Speed is a completely different matter. I'm not particularly fast, and long rides don't really help improving your pace. Prior to PBP, @Frank9755 advised me to do some shorter, high intensity rides. Starting in April 2015, I at least one a week did an hour of Regent Park laps at full throttle. Over several months, my pace on the laps as well as on long rides increased.

My preparation for PBP was starting a RRtY in Sept. 2014 plus the qualifiers. It worked very well - I came around with three hours time in hand. Will stick to this diet as LEL prep.

[MattJH]

I entered LEL 2013 having never ridden anything further than 300km.  Obviously at that time I was unsure whether I could do it or not but I though "what the hell, what's the worst that can happen".  My training over 2013 in the run up to LEL consisted of a SR series interspersed with some additional 2/300's - when work and kids permitted.

On the start line I was still unsure whether I would be able to do it or not - I think it would be a very special person who didn't have some doubts about an event like LEL.  My advice would be to go for it and do it anyway.  You might find you can't do it or don't like it, but if you don't try you won't know.   

Got round in 107 hours in 2013 and absolutely loved it. 

As others have mentioned "fitness" is really the main thing you need for an event of this size.  Mental toughness is key, and I found a "what the heck" attitude accounts for a lot.

I should be on the start line next year, probably with some doubts as to whether I can get to the finish, but knowing ill give it a bloody good go. 

[hulver]

Just as a counter-point to these people who barely rode down the shops, then sailed around LEL. I didn't finish it in 2013. I had done a pretty strict training plan on the turbo during the winter, ECE'd a 100k route to 240km, failed to finish a 300km DIY (after 280km), failed to finish a 600km (just over half way around) calendar event, and done as much as I could to be ready.

I dropped out just after Brampton after getting to Gretna (at least I got to Scotland) because I couldn't eat.

I think my biggest problem was mental. I was going pretty slowly at the end, but I wasn't in the right frame of mind for getting stuff finished.

I'm going to finish it this time, but before hand I'm going to make sure that I finish the rides I do in preparation for it. I could have finished the 300km ride I did before, but by the end I was looking for excuses to drop out and just go to bed. Not sure I could have finished the 600, as I packed that due to muscle cramps in my back. Maybe if I'd looked for ways of finishing I could have had a bigger rest, done something to plod on until the end.

I never got in the habit of finishing rides, I think that, more than the fitness is what's really needed.

[Nim]

Thanks to everyone for their useful advice on this thread. I completed my first SR series and RRtY this year and have been looking for things to help with stepping up to LEL.

I've had the pep-talk from a club mate who explained some basics about "fitness" and that there's no physical reason I could not get round OK.

The points about mental toughness, which I think of as resilience, are particularly useful. I've found the techniques discussed on Andy's SRRtY blog very helpful for multiple day rides: https://srrty.wordpress.com/

Anyway, I reason that the only way I can work on this practically is lived experience of being out on those longer rides, so I'm thinking about 'tapering up' my RRtY something like:

October-February 200s for RRtY keepy-up
March 300
April 400
May 600
June 400
Early July 600
Late July / August LEL

@redfalo the point about speed is really helpful, not something I'd thought about at all until now. Weekday Regents Park 'hour of power' might be the thing

Nim

[LMT]

Thanks to everyone for their useful advice on this thread. I completed my first SR series and RRtY this year and have been looking for things to help with stepping up to LEL.

I've had the pep-talk from a club mate who explained some basics about "fitness" and that there's no physical reason I could not get round OK.

The points about mental toughness, which I think of as resilience, are particularly useful. I've found the techniques discussed on Andy's SRRtY blog very helpful for multiple day rides: https://srrty.wordpress.com/

Anyway, I reason that the only way I can work on this practically is lived experience of being out on those longer rides, so I'm thinking about 'tapering up' my RRtY something like:

October-February 200s for RRtY keepy-up
March 300
April 400
May 600
June 400
Early July 600
Late July / August LEL

@redfalo the point about speed is really helpful, not something I'd thought about at all until now. Weekday Regents Park 'hour of power' might be the thing

Nim

If you go down to Regents Park early in the morning, about 6ish. You'll find a few half decent chaingangs doing circuits, I'll doubt there will be a problem hanging off the back keeping pace.

[vorsprung]

the main difference between doing a UK sr series and doing LEL is the sleep.  You arrive at a dubious control, sleep for a few hour and then ride to the next one.  On a 600km that would be the end and after a brisk journey home you are in your own bed and in recovery mode.  On LEL the next thing is sleep for a few hours and do it again!

So the trick is to firstly try and maximise sleep in a proper bed, secondly to pace yourself.

Last PBP I rode the first 600km on a 15 minute kip, but for a reason: so I would be both ahead of "the bulge" of the bulk of riders that want a bed and also so I'd have plenty of time to sleep on the return.

Pacing is critical as you are going to ride for several days.  Don't blow up on day 1.  Day 2 will be hell in this case.  The good news is that by day 3 you will have recovered

It's difficult to comprehend the mindset until you've experienced it but that's the clue: sleep, pacing.

[redfalo]

I'm thinking about 'tapering up' my RRtY something like:

October-February 200s for RRtY keepy-up
March 300
April 400
May 600
June 400
Early July 600
Late July / August LEL

@redfalo the point about speed is really helpful, not something I'd thought about at all until now. Weekday Regents Park 'hour of power' might be the thing

Nim

Pretty similar to my schedule, although I doubt I'll be able to stomach a 2nd 600 pre-LEL. A quick 200 will do the trick. Live in London? Fancy riding together? I'm in Highbury. Always looking for company either on (winter) DIYs or Regent Park laps.

[Somnolent]

the main difference between doing a UK sr series and doing LEL is the sleep.  You arrive at a dubious control, sleep for a few hour and then ride to the next one.  On a 600km that would be the end and after a brisk journey home you are in your own bed and in recovery mode.  On LEL the next thing is sleep for a few hours and do it again!

So the trick is to firstly try and maximise sleep in a proper bed, secondly to pace yourself.

Last PBP I rode the first 600km on a 15 minute kip, but for a reason: so I would be both ahead of "the bulge" of the bulk of riders that want a bed and also so I'd have plenty of time to sleep on the return.

Pacing is critical as you are going to ride for several days.  Don't blow up on day 1.  Day 2 will be hell in this case.  The good news is that by day 3 you will have recovered

It's difficult to comprehend the mindset until you've experienced it but that's the clue: sleep, pacing.

Pacing is certainly critical ( and keep an eye on it throughout - in 2013 I kept things in check at the start and 'blew' on day 3, trying to stay with a train that was just a bit too hot for me )
But for me sleep is not comparable to that on a 600.  On most 600s you are pushing to 350km or beyond before sleep stop, and although I know can go 400km without sleep I do slow down a lot beyond 300km.  The lower speed limits on LEL mean ~ 300km/day so I'm spending less time riding slowly & consequently the amount of sleep I get per night is increased dramatically, leading to better recovery between the days.
 

[Planet X Paul]

This will be my first foray into this sort of madness and I am already trying to plan pace, stops, sleep etc.  From a full value riders point of view, what is your usual strategy.  How far would you go before sleep, and how many hours sleep would you plan to get.  Currently I'm looking at splitting the ride up into even chunks and sleeping at Louth (N), Brampton (N), Brampton (S), Pockington (S) and a few hours at St.Ives (S).  Looking at spending between 4-5 hours at each to include eating, showering, changing gear & sleeping.

Would be interested to hears others thoughts on the matter.

Cheers
Paul

[Fidgetbuzz]

tricky to start advance planning of sleep stops .. when you do not know your start time .. and guessing that the weather is "normal"

[redfalo]

This will be my first foray into this sort of madness and I am already trying to plan pace, stops, sleep etc.  From a full value riders point of view, what is your usual strategy.  How far would you go before sleep, and how many hours sleep would you plan to get.  Currently I'm looking at splitting the ride up into even chunks and sleeping at Louth (N), Brampton (N), Brampton (S), Pockington (S) and a few hours at St.Ives (S).  Looking at spending between 4-5 hours at each to include eating, showering, changing gear & sleeping.

Would be interested to hears others thoughts on the matter.

Cheers
Paul

basically what @Fidgetbuzz said. to large parts, it's unpredictable. on my 400k PBP qualifier, I blew up  after 330km and literally crawled to arrivve. On the real thing, I slept for the first time after 500km (which I had never expected to be possible, and still find hard to replicate).

On 600k rides, I also have to problem that I MUST sleep after 350-ish km, but not necessarily CAN do so. On this year's 600, I might have got 30 min of sleep. After 2 hours of trying, I came to the conclusion that I was wasting my time and cracked on. I really struggled a few hours later as I was getting really tired.

In the months up to PBP, I spent hours after hours poring over a spreadsheet with average speed, time spent at controls and so on. It was eventually all bollocks. My overall moving speed was much higher than expected, but time spent at controls on the return leg was much bigger than planned.

[The French Tandem]

How far would you go before sleep, and how many hours sleep would you plan to get. 

1) Ride  to the next control.
2) Eat a proper meal, or at least a little snack.
2) Are you tired enough to sleep immediately on the table?
   YES: ask for a bed and sleep for as long as your time buffer allows.
    NO: ride to the next control.


EDIT: Do not try to think too hard about putting your bag drops  where you expect to sleep. This will NOT work.

[Somnolent]

tricky to start advance planning of sleep stops .. when you do not know your start time .. and guessing that the weather is "normal"

The other way round is to do the whole 'spreadsheet madness' thing so as to decide on what start time to ask for.

This will be my first foray into this sort of madness and I am already trying to plan pace, stops, sleep etc.  From a full value riders point of view, what is your usual strategy.  How far would you go before sleep, and how many hours sleep would you plan to get.  Currently I'm looking at splitting the ride up into even chunks and sleeping at Louth (N), Brampton (N), Brampton (S), Pockington (S) and a few hours at St.Ives (S).  Looking at spending between 4-5 hours at each to include eating, showering, changing gear & sleeping.

Would be interested to hears others thoughts on the matter.

thoughts - Brampton (N) to Brampton(S) is a long hard day.  My super whizzy, all-singing, all-dancing spreadsheet** suggests (for me) it could be 21 hours (including stops at the intermediate controls).

** predicted my arrival time at Edinburgh in 2013 to the minute - and then went completely to ratshit!
And was torn up completerly by the 2nd control on PBP.
Redfalo's description of "bollocks" is on the money.

However, if you want to do some planning, because of the way control times on LEL are worked out (different from PBP) I'd suggest that as a full-value rider, aiming to have something like 10 hrs in hand at Edinburgh will give you a good chance of succcess.   Not quite the 'race out - tour back' strategy often suggested for PBP, but the early legs are where you want to build up as much buffer as possible.