Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: ferret on 23 May, 2012, 05:34:47 pm
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I've only started this year but I've got the bug, I know I was warned :facepalm:
so my mind has turned to doing an SR next year, what I would like to know is what do you people do when going over 200km with regards to carrying kit, especially the 400 and 600km distances, I already have a Barley which goes everywhere with me, would a super c or similar be adequate. I'm just trying to get an idea of what to look out for in readiness for next season,
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I was happiest with two small rear panniers. Never got on with bar bags or saddlebags.
Very few did the same.
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I went a step bigger with a pendle. Holds enough for a 400/600. I previously had an overlander rackpack .
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I too have reason to contemplate luggage capacity.
I know from experience that I can do 200km with a small seat pack to carry multi-tool,spare tube,patches,glue,tyre boot,swiss army knife,zip ties,chain splitter.
I use a triathlon top-bar bag to carry Nuun tablets & energy bars.
My phone,wallet & cafe lock are carried in jersey pockets.
Route sheet,laminated,on a bar mounted map trap.
atm I expect my Barley to be adequate for upto & including 400km based on my observations of those audacious types on this forum.This will carry extra clothes,spare tubes,food,batteries.The strap loops on the lid also offer more carrying capacity.
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Small pannier user here, starter Audax's last year with a barbag, but never really got on with it, as it was limiting with capacity, could overload the front, and restricted what lights I could use, went onto using Ortlieb Sport Packer Classic, as I had already had them, if was buying at the time, would have looked at the Carridice range, probably the Pendle.,
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I've just used a barley for all of mine.
Longer rides (>=400k) or bad weather ones, I often toe-stap a drysac across the top with a spare jersey and shorts in it. And the spare tire is bungee corded to the bagman support. Seems to have worked so far, and despite appearance does seem to curb the amount I carry.
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A barley plus a bar bag has been plenty for anything up to 600k.
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I now have a Carradice Camper Longflap, which is my all-purpose bag. On 200s and 300s it isn't full. On longer rides involving changes in temperature, or overnighting, I would still be able to carry a change of clothes, plus emergency rations, Nuun tablets, plus tools, etc.
Recently I have added a top-bar bag/triathlon bag, as it is easily accessible for Brevet card, Wine Gums without stopping.
Lycra Man
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I often toe-stap a drysac across the top
smart thinking :thumbsup:
I may copy that
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Whatever you choose there's a great temptation to fill it to capacity. If you've got the space you'll be surprised what you can convince yourself you should carry "just in case" and 99% of the time it'll remain in the bag for the whole ride. I deliberately restrict myself to just a Barley and have found it perfect even for multi-day rides, however if you're somebody who likes to carry a change of shorts, tops, etc you'll find it a bit on the small side.
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Whatever you choose there's a great temptation to fill it to capacity. If you've got the space you'll be surprised what you can convince yourself you should carry "just in case" and 99% of the time it'll remain in the bag for the whole ride.
I have,& to some extent still do, suffer from this particular curse
I deliberately restrict myself to just a Barley and have found it perfect even for multi-day rides,
I employed this tactic for the last 7 days of an E2E.
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Whatever you choose there's a great temptation to fill it to capacity. If you've got the space you'll be surprised what you can convince yourself you should carry "just in case" and 99% of the time it'll remain in the bag for the whole ride.
I have,& to some extent still do, suffer from this particular curse
Whereas I suffer from the inverse curse of choosing slightly smaller luggage, filling it to capacity, and then spending the whole ride worrying about the stuff I haven't brought...
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we should ride as a team & balance it out between us ;D
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Carradice Nelson for me for anything from 400k to 1400k :thumbsup:
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Whereas I say 'spare capacity weighs practically nothing'.
Take it and use it judiciously.
Just because you have a spare carrier bag in your pocket, nobody says you have to fill it.
It's nice to remove clothing should the weather improve unexpectedly and to have space for that clothing.
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yep I think I'm with helly on this one, my Barley is certainly good enough for the rides I've been doing, I use an old boot lace to tie my jacket to the top of my Barley, but when it gets round to me going further than 300km I'm going to need extra space, not sure what for yet but I'll need it.
if nothing else it will be easier to get at stuff in the bottom of the bag :)
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I was in the same situation last weekend on the BCM600.
I normally do 200 / 300 with just a small seat pack, containing 1 spare tube, levers, repair kit, multi-tool ans couple of quick-links.
For a 600, I fitted a topeak seatpost-clamp rack with a slide-on bag.
I carried all the usual stuff, + 1 extra tube.
I carried an extra layer of fleece, in case it got cold.
My waterproofs went in there, too, to get them out of my jersey pocket.
Some extra rations went in the bag too.
There was spare room in case I needed to remove a layer.
Oh, and also a 50Kg Lead-Acid battery to satiate the Garmin's Hungaar.
In my jersey, I carried extra bonk rations.
I used the bag-drop facility ( I think I won that, I didn't spot anything bigger than my old purple Karrimor Hot Ice day-sack, containing 2 whole changes of kit! Prepared for a soaking all the way round, I had fresh kit for the evening ride, and fresh kit for the Sunday 200k. )
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I've cable tied wet weather gear to the top tube when short of space.
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Here's me and A.N.Other forumite (http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6169/6174383751_d309a9a917_b.jpg) on PBP. Here (http://www.facewest.co.uk/Ortlieb-Saddle-Bag.html) is the saddlebag I used. I didn't take a waterproof apart from the gilet I'm wearing, but would have tied that to the top of the saddlebag. As it was, that proved a useful place to tie washed shorts as they dried. The 2.7l is bigger than it sounds but I think it's a bit smaller than a Barley, it suited me fine and I'd take the same bag again.
I subscribe to the idea that if you have too much carrying capacity, you'll fill it with unnecessary rubbish. I took my Nelson on an overnight 400 with Shymu last week, because I had a set of clothes to wear on the train back and because I was testing out a touring load, and had no problems filling that - with an extra bottle of whisky for the last 100km of the ride! The truth is, there are few places in this country that have roads, and yet are so isolated that you'll die between controls if something goes wrong and you don't have a full paramedic backup in your saddlebag. In extremis you can usually buy something by the road if you've forgotten it, and this should happen at large enough intervals that it won't bankrupt you.
Basically, your Barley will be fine. Resist the magpie urge and your legs will thank you!
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you may have a point Mr Bunbury, I was surprised at the weight of my Barley, when I filled it ready for my first 200
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I've only ever used the Barley, from 50km Audaxes to 1400km. Having said that, on the 10x600km+ eventsI've done, I've always been able to take advantage of a bag drop.
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Crap fills the space available. I have a Barley and use toe straps to strap a little extra for 600+ rides. I have more oftern finished and wondered why I brought all this stuff, and never wished I had brought more.
Sensible choice of layers is important. Good base layers and a wind proof can take you almost anywhere.
I did LEJOG with two base layers and two pairs of shorts and just enough for a day ride. Waterproof, gilet, arm and leg warmers and little else. Mind you it was July.
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Do all 600's have a bag drop,
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No. You're guaranteed a bag drop if you return to base at any point, otherwise you may get one if you're on a big ride. Here's a history of my 600s and their bag drop status.
Spa Trek: 200km + 400km loops, so bag drop at 200km. I didn't use it.
Seething: 300 + 100 + 200km loops, so bag drops at 300km and 400km
York Cambridge York: Perm, so no bag drops here.
Bryan Chapman: Bag drop at Kings YHA, visited at 200km and 400km
PBP: No bag drops unless you travelled with Baxters or similar, but plenty of people shoving stuff at you along the route, both for free and for $$$.
Last year's Nat. 24 counts as a 600, but that's something different!
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I'm half a step ahead of you Ferret, having just done my first 400+ ride the other day. The temp ranged from 1° - 21°C but my medium sized Carradice (Nelson?) was fine to stow all the winter gloves/lock/powdered drink stuff/layers/lights/maps/batteries/fairly good range of spares/tools and also included a lot of food (as I don't seem to generate enough slack time for full meal cafe stops :( and also I don't have any money :'( :'( :'(
I reckon if I was a careful and took a bit less food, I would have room for a space blanket/overshoes which I might take on the planned 600 if the weather forecast is not perfect. Mind you, if it is crap I will probably DNS.
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Revellinho your not alone, I'm quite slow myself, I believe it's referred to as getting your money's worth, looking on the carradice site the Nelson is a bit bigger than the Barley, there are some interesting approaches to doing 400+ rides, which I'm sure I will get the hang of in time, In the meantime I'll be doing my 100's and using my faithful Barley :)
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what do i do? - leave my barley at home as it's too big for audaxes. i take few small bags instead - i found they work better for me.
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Whereas I say 'spare capacity weighs practically nothing'.
Take it and use it judiciously.
Just because you have a spare carrier bag in your pocket, nobody says you have to fill it.
It's nice to remove clothing should the weather improve unexpectedly and to have space for that clothing.
I went up from a 4.5 litre R&K Contour bag that has enough capacity for 200s to a Barley for my first 600 (BCM) recently. But I did fabricate a bungee arrangement that would hold clothing that might be shed during the day to the loops on top of it. OK I did have a tiny 2 litre bar bag too - but that was mostly taken up with electronic gubbins running off the dynohub that I was testing out.... and had the route sheet attached to the top.
Barley gave me enough space for all the usual stuff + extra tubes, spare tyre, spare spoke, cables, spoke key, NBT2 (which I didnt use but lent to another rider who would have been stuffed without it)
Bag drop items were used, 'tis true, but just to have the luxury of shower stuff & fresh clothes. I felt I had too much "stuff" altogether, which meant time wasted on faffage. Just the Barley would have been fine.
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Mini Bungees (http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/hardware/security/bungee_cords/Master-Lock-Pack-Of-4-Mini-Bungee-Cords-3018EURDAT-Assorted-Colours-L-25mm-9284321) are a bargainacious solution to stowing excess clothes; almost worth fitting a rack for, but can also be deployed around a saddle bag.
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Carradice Nelson for me for anything from 400k to 1400k :thumbsup:
Alternatively, I recall the motto of LEJOG 2010 was "travel light, ride smelly"
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Carradice Nelson for me for anything from 400k to 1400k :thumbsup:
Alternatively, I recall the motto of LEJOG 2010 was "travel light, ride smelly"
Happy days :)
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I have a topeak trunk bag which slides on to a clamped on beam.
It is the smallest one they do. I've done lots of 200's and a 300 with it.
For the longer rides I have planned I will simply put extra stuff in a plastic bag and bungy it to the trunk bag.
Might go down the Carradice route or simply get a bigger Topeak trunk bag if the plastic bag option doesn't work out.
I also have a Topeak Drybag, just big enough for Brevet card, money, phone, flapjack, condoms and a couple of Jack Daniels miniatures. (you never know!) :demon:
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I normally use a Barley for all rides including 1200s and above. I do have a Nelson Longflap that was handy for a Perm 1500 when we were staying in B&Bs each night and a full change of clothes was needed, but in general I prefer a smaller bag. In fact I've just bought a Carradice Zip Roll which looks an ideal size for summer 200/300 rides. Can't wait to try it out.
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I've only started this year but I've got the bug, I know I was warned :facepalm:
so my mind has turned to doing an SR next year, what I would like to know is what do you people do when going over 200km with regards to carrying kit, especially the 400 and 600km distances, I already have a Barley which goes everywhere with me, would a super c or similar be adequate. I'm just trying to get an idea of what to look out for in readiness for next season,
I'll show you when you come to build your wheels - current set up plus my PBP rig from last year. ;D
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"It is a law immutable that the further you are to travel, the more you must carry."
</Austen>
Read Ranulph Feinnes' "Mind Over Matter" which IMO is absolutely essential reading for any serious randonneur.
In the first part of the book he explains in great detail, the logistics of setting up a one-man crossing of the Antarctic and why, as he set off on the first steps of this epic journey, it took several attempts just to actually start moving at all, his load was so heavy.
(Though the best bit of the story is when, after many weeks of travelling alone, he arrives at the South Pole - he is so traumatised at the prospect of human company that he just presses on past, without stopping.)
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When I started doing 400km rides I got a Super C saddlebag, rated at 23l
I did try using a Barley v(12l ISTR) on a wet BCM, it was fine for capacity but I hated the buckles. The Super C remained in use.
I used this until PBP 2007 when I switched to a lighter 16l SQR Tour
For the next PBP 2011 I was using an Ortlieb bar bag, an 8l one plus the SQR Tour
This vast carrying volume let me get to PBP and back by bike/train
Using a bar bag on PBP worked great, much less stopping as everything was right there in front of me
This year I have been messing about with attaching dry bags to supplement the bar bag capacity.
Immediate access stuff goes in the bar bag and clothes and tools at the back
If you have got the right clothing this can reduce the volume carried a lot
I now have Gore Bikewear Windstopper arm and leg warmers for instance
Compared to carrying tights and a spare LS jersey that's a good space saving
I also have a tiny paclite waterproof instead of a much larger coat
The biggest problem weather conditions are if it is going to vary between hot, cold, dry and wet
Layers that come off must be stored somewhere
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One of the reasons I don't like Carradice saddlebags (as well as the testicular swing) is the way that stuff falls out when you open them up. This is also true of the Ortleib saddlebag. A rack bag sits on your rack and stuff only falls out if you fail to do it up properly (which I do, all too often).
The rack bag with drop-down sides (a cheap version of this (http://www.evanscycles.com/products/topeak/mtx-trunk-bag-exp-with-side-panniers-ec005994)) holds enough for a 600 for both of us on the tandem, when used in conjunction with teeny-weeny panniers full of electronics and snacks. Tools in a wedge pack on the frame.
I definitely think that less is more. Tuggo halved my luggage for PBP and I still didn't use all of it. If you have space, you generally fill it, and there's just no need.
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One of the reasons I don't like Carradice saddlebags (as well as the testicular swing) is the way that stuff falls out when you open them up
I hear what you are saying but none of mine do this. Even if I leave the side pockets open by mistake I don't loose anything riding along.
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Ditto.
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Ditto.
+1
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Ditto, it's all in the angle of the dangle. Maybe us men are just naturally better at setting something up that has a testicular swing <ducks and runs>
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Not sure I'm qualified to comment, not having done longer rides. But there comes a point where your preparation is sufficient for any length of ride (barring changes of clothes, when bag drops might be in place anyway).
For my last few longish rides, I've used a barbag, partly to hold map & routesheet, but also for personals. Saddlebag copes with layers coming off or waiting ready to go on if necessary. The system works. I guess I could get away with a smaller saddlebag than a Super C, but I prefer to have a bit of spare space if poss, and I wouldn't want to reduce the number of tools/spares, cereal bars and FAK I carry. In fact, at the last one, that first aid kit came in very handy and gained me brownie points when the organiser cut his finger and was bleeding on the spare routesheets. ;D
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Well, 'I don't really like Carradice' was hardly going to find much affirmation on this forum of fan-boys, was it?
They're not really suitable for anyone with a short seat post, I find they smell fusty, and, there's a limit to how much of a stereotype I'm willing to look like...
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To be fair, Carradice make some perfectly good rack bags, and retro-chic indestructible leaky panniers. It's not all ugly testicular swing.
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but one thing I'll do when packing for a ride is pack every layer I might want to remove, plus a reasonable amount of food (I tend to carry more than most people, as I don't always agree with typical café fare) and all the tools, spares and whatnot. That way you don't fill space you're going to need later with random stuff.
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There is definitely an issue with saddlebags and short seatposts. Butterfly wore a hole in the bottom of one. Even a Bagman can't provide the lift (though an SQR can, pretty much). Older style supports, fitting to the frame, or providing an uplift from the back of the saddle to attach to, such as Jane uses, are the answer.
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Well, 'I don't really like Carradice' was hardly going to find much affirmation on this forum of fan-boys, was it?
They're not really suitable for anyone with a short seat post, I find they smell fusty, and, there's a limit to how much of a stereotype I'm willing to look like...
Saddlebags (especially the ones with pockets) are extremely wide and therefore have a slimming effect on the rider's posterior.
YMMV
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Even a Bagman can't provide the lift
A kind of M&S underpants problem...
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My posterior is wider than many saddlebags. Bu I never got on with my Karrimor saddlebag so went for panniers.
That which fits me will fit few others as we're all different sizes and shapes.
Leaving spare capacity spare should not take a HYOOGE amount of self-discipline.
I don't think I took much excess luggage with me. Slow, solo riders need contingency supplies.
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Slow, solo riders need contingency supplies.
This cannot be stressed enough.
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I've never done more than 400 but only ever use a little "bento box" plus mini saddle bag, along with pockets etc. Anything you use (eat etc) can always be replenished on the way around.
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Funny enough (longer) summer rides need more luggage than winter cos In the winter you keep all your clothes on all the time.
For the brevet cymru last year I had a carradice camper as I had ridden out to Wales with a tent, though I left that behind for the ride. So my bag was half empty which made finding stuff easy.
Meanwhile Chris was toting a packed to the gunnels barley with a density approaching a neutron star. It may have been small but it weighed a ton!
Size isn't everything; when it comes to luggage, a good big'un beats a good little'un.
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Yeah, as Manotea says, it's much easier finding stuff from, and reclosing half-empty bags than jam-packed ones.
I should not be surprised if people travelling with less luggage are more likely to leave stuff behind at controls.
Full bags can have nocturnal explosions near puddles...
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Explosions is a strong word - did you mean emissions? ;D
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Sorry, projectile content emergence due to packing under tension.
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Also worth noting that those of us lying down on the job will need more luggage space on account of the general incompatibility[1] between recumbents and pockets. This is offset by having a really good excuse not to use saddlebags. ;)
[1] Items places in jersey pockets will either end up sweaty and blank, squished and leaky or leave a thing-shaped bruise on your back. Items placed in trouser pockets will either end up on the road, or rub awkwardly.
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Also worth noting that those of us lying down on the job will need more luggage space on account of the general incompatibility[1] between recumbents and pockets. This is offset by having a really good excuse not to use saddlebags. ;)
[1] Items places in jersey pockets will either end up sweaty and blank, squished and leaky or leave a thing-shaped bruise on your back. Items placed in trouser pockets will either end up on the road, or rub awkwardly.
I suspect those lying down on the job need more/ better waterproofing than upwrongs as a greater area is exposed to vertical rain.
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I suspect those lying down on the job need more/ better waterproofing than upwrongs as a greater area is exposed to vertical rain.
Depends.
For a start, unless you're following someone with a naff mudguard your feet tend to stay drier, as they're clear of the front wheel and gravity isn't delivering water from the rest of your legs, so you're generally winning there. Of course, if you've got a front fairing, your feet and legs should stay totally dry (though your face will get a nice soaking with every pothole).
Waterproof jackets are annoying on recumbents, as they don't ventilate properly, and as well as the traditional puddle (or collection of hail stones as I had last month) on your tummy, you can end up with interesting failure modes like puddles of sweat forming at your elbows. They'll also thwart whatever ventilation your seat has.
But recumbents put you in a more aerodynamic position, and even the best ventilated seats act as a layer of insulation, so you tend to dissipate less heat than on an upright. My preferred strategy is to keep clothing to a minimum, get soaked, and only add waterproofs when I actually get cold (which I will as soon as I stop). Putting on waterproofs is only going to soak me anyway. So you're right in that I'll need to carry layers that I might be wearing in the same conditions on an upright.
What's probably needed is a body equivalent of rainlegs...
(And of course the 'vertical rain' thing is a fallacy. It's always a headwind. :) )
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I think Kim's approach of packing everything in the bag that you may take off on the ride plus all the other bits is a good idea
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I bought a Carradice Nelson saddlebag for longer rides (for me this means over 70k!). I found the barley was struggling to hold spare layers and with the recent variable weather, I'm not willing to go out without an extra layer and some spare socks. I also carry a shewee, spare lights and quite a few energy gels and snacks as I suffer if my blood suger drops. And often some chocolate to bung at the lad if the same happens to him.
I have a rack so the lack of seatpost doesn't bother the saddle bag too much.
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well so far I have managed with my Barley, but I've only done 3 official rides and they've all been in the dry, after reading the posts here and with my limited experience I'm already thinking that I possibly don't need to go any bigger, but that Super C does look very practical and if ever I wanted to do some weekend touring that would be ideal ::-)
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You could possibly get a bar bag, which would allow you to expand your capacity if you so wish but also to leave one bag at home if you find you don't need it.
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I had thought about a bar bag, but what about the cables, lights, map holder where would I put all those,
I could always go for a n+1 just for rides over 300Km :demon:
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I had thought about a bar bag, but what about the cables, lights, map holder where would I put all those,
I could always go for a n+1 just for rides over 300Km :demon:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67610004@N03/sets/72157627688370414/
hth
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aahhh I see very clever,I already have one of those brackets and I suppose if I got the right barbag it would have somewhere to put the route sheet or map, I much prefer the idea of a new bike though :)
I'm off to do a bit of fettling,
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I much prefer the idea of a new bike though :)
quite right too.
Regard it an essential accessory for the Topeak bar extender that you are buying.
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;D ;D I don't think I would get away with it, but worth a try, I've just realised I have a stem riser fitted, so the bracket won't fit there, however it's not beyond me to make something to do the job, I'll go for a rummage in the workshop see whats about :thumbsup:
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I quite like my topeak rx bag. The bar it fits onto clamps to the seat post.the bag is quick release so you can easilly take it into a cafe or whatever if you want to. It has the central bag big enough for a days ride space for usual junk plus a waterproof jacket. It also has. Foldaway side panniers you can drop down if you want them. Haven't used the panniers yet as I only do 200 and 100s.
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I'm another one who restricts myself to a Barley, even on PBP. I have toe straps through the loops on top so I can store my jacket in a 1l Alpkit dry sac on top if I want to. A small tribag on the top tube holds battery pack and acts as a nose bag to hold my Harribo. Most of the stuff I ride around with I pretty much never use, but some of it I can't leave behind in case of mechanical epic fail.
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I envy people who can get away with a Barley on long rides, I always end up carrying too much, but a Barley is fine for 400s I think.
I think a lot depends on the weather though, if you can be assured of warm and dry nights then a Barley would be more than adequate. I took a Super C on BCM600 and PBP full of "just in case" clothes. On BCM600 I've been glad of extra clothes on board and the ability to carry quite a lot of food.
You just need to remember not to fill to capacity any large saddlebag you may get.
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It varies, but the combination I've got used to is a Carradice bag plus a bum bag that contains spare tubes, a pump, a few bonk rations, brevet card, wallet, phone, and bear. That means that my valuables travel with me and I usually manage not to leave anything lying on a cafe table which is so easy to do.
In winter/spring when I need heavier clothing for the dark sections I prefer a single pannier which sits on the left hand side to counter my natural lean to the right when I get tired.
A bar bag is really handy when I'm riding with my son as its a good place to keep motivational goodies such as biscuits and flapjacks.
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It varies, but the combination I've got used to is a Carradice bag plus a bum bag that contains spare tubes, a pump, a few bonk rations, brevet card, wallet, phone, and bear. That means that my valuables travel with me and I usually manage not to leave anything lying on a cafe table which is so easy to do.
In winter/spring when I need heavier clothing for the dark sections I prefer a single pannier which sits on the left hand side to counter my natural lean to the right when I get tired.
A bar bag is really handy when I'm riding with my son as its a good place to keep motivational goodies such as biscuits and flapjacks.
It's heart warming to see you always take your bear along :D
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I recently (a couple of years or so ago) removed racks from most of my bikes and went back to sideways luggage with a Carradice small saddlebag (Barley?). It has worked fine for self-sufficient rides of up to 1200km. It probably has more capacity than my previous rack-pack. A Bagman Quick Release Adapter (http://www.carradice.co.uk/index.php?page_id=accessories) has stopped the swing.