[HAMR] More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)

[Sergeant Pluck]

Has there been any word on the effectiveness of Steve’s plan to keep his HR down? I know he used this in his first months on the road, but is he still deliberately avoiding faster HR? Or did it serve its purpose in those early stages?

[Kim]

Has there been any word on the effectiveness of Steve’s plan to keep his HR down? I know he used this in his first months on the road, but is he still deliberately avoiding faster HR? Or did it serve its purpose in those early stages?

Last time I brought this up, the man himself came along shortly afterwards and said he wasn't riding to a heartrate.  Presumably he's been on the bike for long enough that he knows what level of effort he can maintain.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Has there been any word on the effectiveness of Steve’s plan to keep his HR down? I know he used this in his first months on the road, but is he still deliberately avoiding faster HR? Or did it serve its purpose in those early stages?

Last time I brought this up, the man himself came along shortly afterwards and said he wasn't riding to a heartrate.  Presumably he's been on the bike for long enough that he knows what level of effort he can maintain.

Thanks Kim - missed that.

[mattc]

Did anyone here make a concrete statement, back in January, of what run-rate makes the attempt unfeasible?

I said a while ago that any schedule that requires Steve to average 220+ miles per day till the end to take the record is beyond his reach. Or did you mean January 2015?

Yep, Jan 2015.

(but you can bank that statement above, in case we're still having this discussion in June! )

[LittleWheelsandBig]

<SNIP> in case we're still having this discussion in June! )

If this is still going on in April, (regardless of the average daily mileage required to take the record) Steve's position is highly likely to be "It is so close to August now, I might as well keep going."

[Von Broad]

Whilst there remains a possibility, I feel that Steve deserves support and encouragement for his efforts.   

But he's getting good consistent support and always has done right from the outset.
Financially he's in a sound position, but more importantly he is getting the hands on home-support in MK - and it's unselfish, generous, loyal support carried out by people that have their own lives to run at the same time, without which Steve goes nowhere fast. That's the real essential, necessary support. And it goes largely unacknowledged on here as well. Kurt would have been nothing without Alicia and the van and Steve likewise.

As for encouragement, I have a bit more of a problem with that. Henceforth, it doesn't sit easy with me to encourage him further into prolonged periods of extreme physical exertion, and make no mistake, they will be extreme states if he is going to get anywhere near the target he desires. Sorry, but I'm just not comfortable encouraging him into that, not now, not at this stage.

[andyoxon]

A reminder:

ad hominem
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

just leave it out...

Back to Steve.

My bold - to hopefully demonstrate one of the main problems here.

...

Well not quite, as Steve is not really engaging in discussion and posting about the record attempt(s) on this thread.

Anyway...

[mattc]

A reminder:

ad hominem
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

just leave it out...

Back to Steve.

My bold - to hopefully demonstrate one of the main problems here.

...

Well not quite, as Steve is not really engaging in discussion and posting about the record attempt(s) on this thread.

Anyway...

How absurd. He's been a regular and frequent poster on YACF for years until Jan 2015 when he became a bit busy. Even in 2015 he posted here occasionally.

It's well known that he dips in and reads threads from time to time.

[TimC]

Matt, nothing that's said here - no matter how negative on the chances of Steve's success - is an attack on Steve. It's a comment on what he's doing, which is a public, and publicly-funded, enterprise. It is therefore open for comment, and there's no assumption that any comment should be positive. No-one on here has expressed any antipathy toward Steve himself. They are as entitled as anyone to express their thoughts on the likelihood of success. It really isn't for you to assume offence on Steve's behalf if those thoughts are not optimistic.

[Pale Rider]

A reminder:

ad hominem
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

just leave it out...

Back to Steve.

My bold - to hopefully demonstrate one of the main problems here.

...

Well not quite, as Steve is not really engaging in discussion and posting about the record attempt(s) on this thread.

Anyway...

How absurd. He's been a regular and frequent poster on YACF for years until Jan 2015 when he became a bit busy. Even in 2015 he posted here occasionally.

It's well known that he dips in and reads threads from time to time.

Not as absurd as thinking anything posted on here is an attack on Steve.

I expect you know that, but you keep on posting irrelevant nonsense in a bid to stop reasonable assessment and criticism of the record attempt.

[Polar Bear]

Whilst there remains a possibility, I feel that Steve deserves support and encouragement for his efforts.   

But he's getting good consistent support and always has done right from the outset.
Financially he's in a sound position, but more importantly he is getting the hands on home-support in MK - and it's unselfish, generous, loyal support carried out by people that have their own lives to run at the same time, without which Steve goes nowhere fast. That's the real essential, necessary support. And it goes largely unacknowledged on here as well. Kurt would have been nothing without Alicia and the van and Steve likewise.

As for encouragement, I have a bit more of a problem with that. Henceforth, it doesn't sit easy with me to encourage him further into prolonged periods of extreme physical exertion, and make no mistake, they will be extreme states if he is going to get anywhere near the target he desires. Sorry, but I'm just not comfortable encouraging him into that, not now, not at this stage.

So am I missing something here or is your point and that of many posters here that Steve should stop now simply because you all believe that it's not in his best interests to try?   

It's a 365 day attempt requiring Steve, of which he was fully aware at the outset, to ride on through the worst of winter as well as the best of summer.   His schedule requires it, to get anywhere near the record requires it, to simply complete the challenge whether ultimately successful or otherwise requires it.   Didn't you all think that this would be the case?   I'm pretty certain that Steve as a prolific mile eater before this challenge started had a pretty good idea of what might lay ahead of him and he's attacking it with commendable commitment and tenacity. 

The very fact that you and others think that it's too tough out there is exactly why he deserves support, encourangement and ultimately, some bloody respect.

[mattc]

Matt, nothing that's said here - no matter how negative on the chances of Steve's success - is an attack on Steve. It's a comment on what he's doing, which is a public, and publicly-funded, enterprise. It is therefore open for comment, and there's no assumption that any comment should be positive. No-one on here has expressed any antipathy toward Steve himself. They are as entitled as anyone to express their thoughts on the likelihood of success. It really isn't for you to assume offence on Steve's behalf if those thoughts are not optimistic.

"attacks on Steve"? That seems a bit of a straw man - or at least putting words in my mouth. Odd.

Anyway, i feel free to post my views, and sometimes my views/thoughts relate to daft comments already made here (and some of those comments are indeed critical of Steve).

Its clear that several other members - whose views I have mostly found quite sound in the past - think along similar lines to me (on this topic, anyway!). So I'm clearly not some deranged fantasist.

(To be honest, several of today's posts feel like attempts to shut me up. We can't have that in this Temple to Free Speech, can we? )

[Wobbly]

To be honest, several of today's posts feel like attempts to shut me up

Matt, this thread. It's not about you.

Trust me.

[Von Broad]

So am I missing something here or is your point and that of many posters here that Steve should stop now simply because you all believe that it's not in his best interests to try?   

Ok sorry for the misunderstanding - I'll try and clarify and be as clear as I can: I'm not comfortable [me, personally] with encouraging him any further. I'm not prepared to pretend otherwise. I'm not talking for anybody else but myself and I'm not saying Steve should do anything differently than he is doing. He will do as he sees fit regardless. That is all.

It's a 365 day attempt requiring Steve, of which he was fully aware at the outset, to ride on through the worst of winter as well as the best of summer.   His schedule requires it, to get anywhere near the record requires it, to simply complete the challenge whether ultimately successful or otherwise requires it.   Didn't you all think that this would be the case?   I'm pretty certain that Steve as a prolific mile eater before this challenge started had a pretty good idea of what might lay ahead of him and he's attacking it with commendable commitment and tenacity. 

I thought exactly the same on day one of the challenge too.

The very fact that you and others think that it's too tough out there is exactly why he deserves support, encourangement and ultimately, some bloody respect.

I can only repeat what I've just said: I'm not telling anybody else what to say, think or do.

[L CC]

The very fact that you and others think that it's too tough out there is exactly why he deserves support, encourangement and ultimately, some bloody respect.

I don't think 'it's too tough out there'. If he was bashing out 200 miles day after day in it, I would, awe-struck, tell him to carry on. I'd probably be working much harder to help, too, with both practical and cheerleading support.

I think trying to do what he's doing, here and now, is doomed to failure, and for his long (and short!) term health, he should stop this attempt.
It would appear from his actions that his thoughts on it are that this is the chance he's got, and he has to go for it here & now. As he's the one riding, that's ultimately his choice, but in exactly the same way I think it's stupid to (for example) ride The Dean in snow, I think it's shortsighted to ride ever decreasing ever slowing daily distances in deteriorating weather for a record you aren't going to break.
If we've learnt anything over the last 13 months, it must surely include:

• Steve is every bit as hardcore as we thought
• Kurt is hardier than we thought
• Full time mobile support makes it a lot easier
• Riding further is easier if you ride faster
• Warm weather and riding companions can help
• There are a finite number of hours in the day and even the mighty teethgrinder needs sleep

[yanto]

The very fact that you and others think that it's too tough out there is exactly why he deserves support, encourangement and ultimately, some bloody respect.

I don't think 'it's too tough out there'. If he was bashing out 200 miles day after day in it, I would, awe-struck, tell him to carry on. I'd probably be working much harder to help, too, with both practical and cheerleading support.

I think trying to do what he's doing, here and now, is doomed to failure, and for his long (and short!) term health, he should stop this attempt.
It would appear from his actions that his thoughts on it are that this is the chance he's got, and he has to go for it here & now. As he's the one riding, that's ultimately his choice, but in exactly the same way I think it's stupid to (for example) ride The Dean in snow, I think it's shortsighted to ride ever decreasing ever slowing daily distances in deteriorating weather for a record you aren't going to break.
If we've learnt anything over the last 13 months, it must surely include:

• Steve is every bit as hardcore as we thought
• Kurt is hardier than we thought
• Full time mobile support makes it a lot easier
• Riding further is easier if you ride faster
• Warm weather and riding companions can help
• There are a finite number of hours in the day and even the mighty teethgrinder needs sleep

Thank you for that, you have captured the essence of what i've so inadequately been trying to say;  this isn't being disloyal or disrespectful to Steve, it's about being concerned for him.

There are times when NO and STOP are the correct words.

[mustgettaller]

"attacks on Steve"? That seems a bit of a straw man...

Anyway,...

Its clear that several other members ...

(To be honest, ...

Yawn.

[TimC]

Matt, nothing that's said here - no matter how negative on the chances of Steve's success - is an attack on Steve. It's a comment on what he's doing, which is a public, and publicly-funded, enterprise. It is therefore open for comment, and there's no assumption that any comment should be positive. No-one on here has expressed any antipathy toward Steve himself. They are as entitled as anyone to express their thoughts on the likelihood of success. It really isn't for you to assume offence on Steve's behalf if those thoughts are not optimistic.

"attacks on Steve"? That seems a bit of a straw man - or at least putting words in my mouth. Odd.

Anyway, i feel free to post my views, and sometimes my views/thoughts relate to daft comments already made here (and some of those comments are indeed critical of Steve).

Its clear that several other members - whose views I have mostly found quite sound in the past - think along similar lines to me (on this topic, anyway!). So I'm clearly not some deranged fantasist.

(To be honest, several of today's posts feel like attempts to shut me up. We can't have that in this Temple to Free Speech, can we? )

If you didn't believe that some posts were an attack on Steve, what was all this about then? I'm not putting words in your mouth; simply responding to what you have implied - that some posts are an ad hominem attack on Steve. And I think that is a mistaken impression.

A reminder:

ad hominem
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

just leave it out...

Back to Steve.

My bold - to hopefully demonstrate one of the main problems here.

...

Well not quite, as Steve is not really engaging in discussion and posting about the record attempt(s) on this thread.

Anyway...

How absurd. He's been a regular and frequent poster on YACF for years until Jan 2015 when he became a bit busy. Even in 2015 he posted here occasionally.

It's well known that he dips in and reads threads from time to time.

[mattc]

To be honest, several of today's posts feel like attempts to shut me up

Matt, this thread. It's not about you.

Trust me.

No shit Sherlock

But I'm pretty sure that when you et al quote me, and then tell me stop <whatever>ing, then yup, it probably is about me. It seems certain people make a lot of these posts; hopefully it keeps them happy ...

[TimC]

Yeah, just stop <whatever>ing. And <whateverelse>ing. Does my head in!

[Wobbly]

I love this thread. No, seriously. I really do.   

I'm not being sarcastic either.

Can't say the same for some of the actual comments, mind. 

[Wowbagger]

*has visions of Wobbly looking at the thread title but not actually clicking on it*

[Greenbank]

A reminder:

ad hominem
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

just leave it out...

Back to Steve.

My bold - to hopefully demonstrate one of the main problems here.

...

Well not quite, as Steve is not really engaging in discussion and posting about the record attempt(s) on this thread.

Anyway...

How absurd. He's been a regular and frequent poster on YACF for years until Jan 2015 when he became a bit busy. Even in 2015 he posted here occasionally.

It's well known that he dips in and reads threads from time to time.

You're missing the point quite considerably:-

1) There are plenty of ad hominem attacks on people other than Steve in these threads, by both sides. That's one of the big problems.

2) If you want to bring Steve into it then, yes, the specific comments against Steve's plan/attempt/etc are also an attack against Steve but that doesn't make those ad hominem because Steve himself represents his plan/attempt/etc. They're not just an attack against Steve the person for the sake of it.

Unless, of course, someone can point out an example of an ad hominem attack against Steve. I can't spot one.

[Jack_P]

I didn't want to go out today, but inner chimp shouted "teethgrinder is planning double your ride man up"
Having ridden with Steve, dare I say I think we are of similar ability physically.
So I headed out Easterly, got bored on the fen roads after 2 hrs, checked the average at 15.7 mph and headed back West.
The meagre breeze was biting cold and the average dropped to below 15.

I then dropped onto the old A1 between Alconbury and Norman Cross (a TT course I believe) going North South out and back. I stuck to my usual little pressure on the pedals style and speed rose to 17.5 mph for 2 hours. It was bliss, safe road, totally dry and sheltered, OK the A1 noise is a pain, the gradients are steady, I didn't get bored.
Rode home Westerly afterwards at 15.2 mph for 2 hours, much harder effort.

Seeing Steve wander round the fens lately struggling to average 15mph dare I put forward this 18mile out and back as a viable "mile grabber" for inclement East/West wind days.
The Premier Inn café at Norman cross is a Teethgrinder haunt, he could get a room there (maybe even free after recent problems) for a couple of nights. Have spare bikes and clothing delivered there; local riders and supporters would find him easily, easy A1 access, and I'm sure some nice sheltered groups of riders would form.   

Sorry for rambling, but If I was going for the record right now, rather than a long bike ride, that's what I'd be considering, dull as it sounds.

[PAC]

Crikey...a huge amount of posts today whilst I've been out enjoying (no joke) the cold and icy conditions on the Willy Warmer .  My thoughts on the record attempt...I think it's an attempt at a record which Steve might or might not succeed in achieving (naturally, like everyone on here, I hope he does), not an attempt for creating war on YACF

Cheers,

Peter.