Author Topic: Tubeless for Dummies  (Read 195131 times)

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #225 on: 02 November, 2015, 06:45:20 pm »
I had a puncture yesterday, just coming out of Brighton.  It felt as if I might have run over a bit of debris, then I heard a loud noise, repeated about three times, then nothing.  I looked down and saw that the back tyre was looking a bit soft - although the bike was handling OK.

I stopped and had a look.  There was a wet patch on the tyre and it did feel soft, but not flat, and it wasn't going down any more.  I realised that the noise was most likely to have been escaping sealant and air hitting the mudguard for 3-4 tyre rvolutions, then silence as a seal formed and held.

I decided to try to put some more air in.  I got the pressure up a bit but the hole re-opened, but then re-sealed when the pressure got back to a certain level.

So, I got back on and rode.  The tyre felt fine - although I detected a hint of back-wheel wobble on a fast descent so took it slightly easy on a couple of very fast and twisty bits afterwards.  After half an hour I stopped again to check and the pressure felt the same.  I then rode all the way back to London, at virtually full speed. 

When I got home, I had a look at the tyre, expecting I might have to take it off and patch inside.  I put the pump on and discovered that it had been holding about 35psi.  I inflated it back up to 70 and found that the seal was now holding at that pressure - ie the puncture had fixed itself. 

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #226 on: 03 November, 2015, 08:58:31 pm »
Dunno, if you have the right combination of rim, tyre and the right equipment it is easy.  Trouble is there is quite thin info on what works and doesn't work.  Getting hold of the correct stuff isn't that easy.  Compared to fitting clichers it isn't as well understood or easy to do.  Remember, on yacf (which has on average higher cycling "know how") we have more than on thread about how difficult it is to fit clicher  tyres.

I went with Schwalbe Ones (28) on Archetype rims (stan's 21mm tape, valves, injector, Schwale Sealant and mounting fluid)   
I managed to get all the bits in one hit @ one of the German online suppliers  -  and it all seemed to go a lot easier than your experience.
Regular tyre levers (although with a bit of fighting I might have got them with thumbs)
First inflation with track pump and no sealant seemed to hold pressure so the beads must have seated right away.

The only issues I had on first fitting was sealant clogging the injector between doing front & back wheels, and one of the valve locknuts needed an extra tweak as my original casual 'finger tight' wasn't quite good enough.

I read somewhere that road tyres needed only 30ml of sealant (60ml for MTB) but as I was on 28s I went with 45ml

On occasion I've left bike for a week or more then ridden without checking pressures and certainly things have felt a little more 'cushioned' than usual but not 'squirrely' even when subsequent checking showed less than 60 psi.

Think they went from 95 down to about 70 over the course of PBP.

Had one single visitation, not dissimilar to Frank's experience... but hissed for longer and liberally coated inside of mudguard with sealant before holding about 10psi.  Re-inflated to 70-ish with the mini-pump at roadside and rode home without problems.  Rode another 200, also without problems, before dismounting the tyre to check it thoroughly for internal damage and replenishing sealant.

Maybe I was lucky with my rim/tyre combination first time around but they certainly get a  :thumbsup: from me.

Samuel D

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #227 on: 04 November, 2015, 11:52:36 am »
Had one single visitation, not dissimilar to Frank's experience... but hissed for longer and liberally coated inside of mudguard with sealant before holding about 10psi.  Re-inflated to 70-ish with the mini-pump at roadside and rode home without problems.  Rode another 200, also without problems, before dismounting the tyre to check it thoroughly for internal damage and replenishing sealant.

So now you have a tyre weighed down with an unknown quantity of gloop, gloop on the mudguard, and gloop in a puncture that may or may not hold for the life of the tyre. And you still had to stop when you got the puncture, though I accept you had less work to do than replacing an inner tube would have involved.

This doesn’t sound like a worthwhile trade-off to me, yet very many road cyclists are converting to tubeless. Maybe I just hate gloop more than most.

Kim

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #228 on: 04 November, 2015, 04:09:49 pm »
So now you have a tyre weighed down with an unknown quantity of gloop, gloop on the mudguard, and gloop in a puncture that may or may not hold for the life of the tyre. And you still had to stop when you got the puncture, though I accept you had less work to do than replacing an inner tube would have involved.

This doesn’t sound like a worthwhile trade-off to me, yet very many road cyclists are converting to tubeless. Maybe I just hate gloop more than most.

I must admit to sharing your scepticism.  I've recently fitted some tubeless-capable tyres to my mountain bike, and have been pondering whether it's worth mucking about filling them with snot.  It seems to be a trade-off between ability to run at <30PSI and having a chance at self-sealing after hawthorn attacks, and having to do extra snot-maintenance on an infrequently used bike.

On the road, where I get maybe one or two punctures a year, I'm struggling to see the advantage.  But I'm not a weight/rolling resistance weenie.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #229 on: 04 November, 2015, 07:52:01 pm »
For me, there are two benefits: the first one I had expected and the second is a pleasant surprise.
1. That it enables me to use fast tyres in winter.  I don't enjoy changing tubes with cold, wet fingers so I always used to use tough tyres (generally Bontrager Racelite Hardcases).  I had very few punctures on them but they weren't great to ride on.  The Schwalbe Ones are racing-quality tyres - really enjoyable to ride on.
2. The ride really is much better at lower pressure.

Where is the trade-off?  There is no gloop: the sealant is a liquid and you need c.30ml/30g per wheel.  Given you don't need a tube, the weight does not go up. 

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #230 on: 05 November, 2015, 01:06:23 am »
So now you have a tyre weighed down with an unknown quantity of gloop, gloop on the mudguard, and gloop in a puncture that may or may not hold for the life of the tyre. And you still had to stop when you got the puncture, though I accept you had less work to do than replacing an inner tube would have involved.

This doesn’t sound like a worthwhile trade-off to me, yet very many road cyclists are converting to tubeless. Maybe I just hate gloop more than most.

I must admit to sharing your scepticism.  I've recently fitted some tubeless-capable tyres to my mountain bike, and have been pondering whether it's worth mucking about filling them with snot.  It seems to be a trade-off between ability to run at <30PSI and having a chance at self-sealing after hawthorn attacks, and having to do extra snot-maintenance on an infrequently used bike.

On the road, where I get maybe one or two punctures a year, I'm struggling to see the advantage.  But I'm not a weight/rolling resistance weenie.

I've been umm-ing-and-ah-ing over it for a while, but my Shiny! New!1 Schwalbe Ones arrived today from Germany, along with a big bottle of Stan's sealant.

Now to avoid procrastination, and just fit the bloody things ... Hope I can get them to seal.



1: New tyres. Old version. But because they're discontinued, I got 'em for €30 each. I can cope with that price.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #231 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:02:54 am »
Had my first puncture last night. was riding offroad on a stony track and heard a pss...pss...pss.  Then felt a tiny brief spray on my leg (no, it wasn't Rogerzilla hiding behind a tree).  It did it another two times within about 100 metres then stopped.  I stopped and was surprised at how firm the tyre still was.

Samuel D

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #232 on: 05 November, 2015, 08:09:40 am »
was riding offroad on a stony track and heard a pss...pss...pss.  Then felt a tiny brief spray on my leg

YUCK!

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #233 on: 05 November, 2015, 05:13:02 pm »
was riding offroad on a stony track and heard a pss...pss...pss.  Then felt a tiny brief spray on my leg (no, it wasn't Rogerzilla hiding behind a tree). 

Could have been worse. Might have been Hummers.

Phil W

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #234 on: 05 November, 2015, 06:57:43 pm »
was riding offroad on a stony track and heard a pss...pss...pss.  Then felt a tiny brief spray on my leg (no, it wasn't Rogerzilla hiding behind a tree). 

Could have been worse. Might have been Hummers.

Was it a white liquid on your leg?

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #235 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:03:42 pm »
Yes!  White and slightly sticky

Kim

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #236 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:05:47 pm »
Yeah, but did it taste like spunk?

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #237 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:16:16 pm »
What does spunk taste like, Kim?

Kim

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #238 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:18:29 pm »
Underwhelming.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #239 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:21:08 pm »
Really? Did you have high expectations of flavour then?

Kim

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #240 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:22:42 pm »
People do seem to make quite a fuss about it...

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #241 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:24:21 pm »
I can think of other things I'd rather eat, to be honest.

zigzag

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #242 on: 05 November, 2015, 11:16:58 pm »
i remember about a year ago a heard a conversation between club riders about a chap who had a tyre cut while riding in a chaingang. as he was riding tubeless, the riders behind got a serving of white stuff onto their faces  - he wasn't very welcome in the group after that. i wonder if the tolerance to such incidents will grow as tubeless tyres are getting more popular.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #243 on: 05 November, 2015, 11:20:17 pm »
Were they disappointed with the taste?

Ben T

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #244 on: 05 November, 2015, 11:28:59 pm »
Were they disappointed with the taste?
No one ever found out because their mouths were sealed. :)

bikey-mikey

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #245 on: 06 November, 2015, 12:13:54 am »
All very droll, but you only get the psst psst noise and puffs of escaping fluid in the very occasional deep cut type of incident, and you won't even notice the vast majority of ordinary silently sealed pricks...

In a chain gang it's better to get a hypothetical (I don't believe this actually happened) spray in the face from a rider who carries on, than a group crash caused by a sudden complete deflation, tyre off rim, punctured clincher, happening six inches in front of a fast following group
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #246 on: 06 November, 2015, 07:17:52 am »
I did something silly yesterday. As there was a 3mm tyre cut I attempted to use one of those repair kits where you have a brawdle with an eye and you thread a strip of gooey stuff through it and poke it in the hole (which had sealed)

It made it worse.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #247 on: 06 November, 2015, 08:18:20 am »
All very droll, but you only get the psst psst noise and puffs of escaping fluid in the very occasional deep cut type of incident, and you won't even notice the vast majority of ordinary silently sealed pricks...

In a chain gang it's better to get a hypothetical (I don't believe this actually happened) spray in the face from a rider who carries on, than a group crash caused by a sudden complete deflation, tyre off rim, punctured clincher, happening six inches in front of a fast following group

When I had just such a through-cut incident the spray didn't travel more than a couple of feet. I'm sure I've ingested far worse from wet roods covered in farm detritus sprayed about by passing cars.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #248 on: 06 November, 2015, 11:33:49 am »

1: New tyres. Old version. But because they're discontinued, I got 'em for €30 each. I can cope with that price.

Where did you manage to find stock?

vorsprung

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #249 on: 06 November, 2015, 02:06:17 pm »

1: New tyres. Old version. But because they're discontinued, I got 'em for €30 each. I can cope with that price.

Where did you manage to find stock?

http://www.bikediscount.de/Schwalbe-One-Tubeless-Faltreifen-EVO

claim to have 25mm in stock for 32.90 euros

Oh, no if you press "buy" it says "ausverkauft".  So not there