Author Topic: Tubeless for Dummies  (Read 195112 times)

bikey-mikey

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #300 on: 06 December, 2015, 05:56:20 pm »
Read the thread, Mikey.  Hutchinson don't blow off the rim because of the thick carbon fibre bead they use.  You might not be so lucky with other tyres.  The Schwalbes seem to get a good write up, and I haven't read any incidents of them blowing off the rim, either.

I'm no luddite - I'm running Hutchinsons on DT Swiss R23 spline tubeless ready wheels.  They haven't blown off the rim, either.

It just annoys me when there are clearly set out standards for these rims and tyres and not everyone follows the standard, including Stan for their rim shape.  The hooks should be bigger.  It'd add about 10 grams to the rim weight!.

As I said, you're a fine fellow !!  It's the Luddites I struggle with !! Sorry if there was confusion.  :demon: ;D :smug: O:-)
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #301 on: 06 December, 2015, 10:25:33 pm »
The theory of an inner tube giving mechanical support still baffles me.  Needing stiffer beads for the shallower hooks they're sometimes used with is all the manufacturers need claim.

I had the same view, but there is a mechanical difference. With a tube the pressure holding the bead under the hooks is exerted through the tube, which is pushed against the tyre creating friction helping to stop the tyre riding up over the bead hooks. This works because air isn't held in any gaps by a seal and so the tube is always forced against the tyre. With a tubeless tyre, the air holds the tyre against the rim wall, but there is not additional resistance to the tyre riding around the bead.

Some mtb rims are now hookless!

Biggsy

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #302 on: 07 December, 2015, 03:26:59 am »
What gaps?  How is pressurised air held away from the tyre casing?
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vorsprung

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #303 on: 07 December, 2015, 01:48:32 pm »
The theory of an inner tube giving mechanical support still baffles me.  Needing stiffer beads for the shallower hooks they're sometimes used with is all the manufacturers need claim.

I had the same view, but there is a mechanical difference. With a tube the pressure holding the bead under the hooks is exerted through the tube, which is pushed against the tyre creating friction helping to stop the tyre riding up over the bead hooks. This works because air isn't held in any gaps by a seal and so the tube is always forced against the tyre. With a tubeless tyre, the air holds the tyre against the rim wall, but there is not additional resistance to the tyre riding around the bead.

Some mtb rims are now hookless!

Dunno if all the Hunt-Mason road wheels are completely hookless but apparently at least the carbon fibre ones are
http://road.cc/content/news/165935-hunt-bike-wheels-massively-expands-disc-brake-wheel-range-2016

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #304 on: 07 December, 2015, 03:07:21 pm »
The theory of an inner tube giving mechanical support still baffles me.  Needing stiffer beads for the shallower hooks they're sometimes used with is all the manufacturers need claim.

I had the same view, but there is a mechanical difference. With a tube the pressure holding the bead under the hooks is exerted through the tube, which is pushed against the tyre creating friction helping to stop the tyre riding up over the bead hooks. This works because air isn't held in any gaps by a seal and so the tube is always forced against the tyre. With a tubeless tyre, the air holds the tyre against the rim wall, but there is not additional resistance to the tyre riding around the bead.

Some mtb rims are now hookless!

Dunno if all the Hunt-Mason road wheels are completely hookless but apparently at least the carbon fibre ones are
http://road.cc/content/news/165935-hunt-bike-wheels-massively-expands-disc-brake-wheel-range-2016

Just the carbon I suspect. I don't think you need to look far to work out what the alloy rims are.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #305 on: 08 December, 2015, 05:58:57 pm »
Just the carbon I suspect. I don't think you need to look far to work out what the alloy rims are.

What are they?  I was toying with the idea of getting some!

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #306 on: 08 December, 2015, 07:26:19 pm »
Just the carbon I suspect. I don't think you need to look far to work out what the alloy rims are.

What are they?  I was toying with the idea of getting some!

Probably, the 17mm internal 28mm deep alloy rims are Kinlin XC 279 in disinformation and the 19mm internal 24mm external Kinlin 31T, which are 31mm deep tubeless ready rims available.from cycle clinic, Dr wheels, rebounded from superstar or (probably) brick lane bikes. There is also the 22T 22mm deep tubeless.

I've just built a set of wheels up using the 31T, including offset rear, which I'll write about later if I get chance.

Mike

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #307 on: 09 December, 2015, 12:20:35 am »
Autospell drives me mad.

As noted above, I've just built a new pair of wheels for my GF Ti.  The previous wheels were called away to do duty elsewhere and, at the same time, I find myself in possession of a spare.set of dynamo lights, so I decided to build up asset of lighting dynamo wheels and see what could be done. I wanted to keep there's as light as reasonably possible, consistent with being reliable and not floppy.

The dynamo I selected is the Shutter Precision SV-9, which is a tiny 2.4 watt dynamo that is claimed to provide the full 3 watts at a slightly higher speed than allowed for in the German standard. Weight isbaround 310g and it is available in various drilling and for different lacking patterns. The downside to the sv-9 is the narrow flange spacing at 50mm outside to outside. After various thought experiments I decided to build 324 spoke radial, heads in to maximise stiffness with laser spokes and a stiff rim to help out.

The rear hub is a hope Mono RS, which with an offset rear rim gave nds tension at 62% of ds and is 11 speed capable. Spokes are 28 2x, laser nds and race ds.

Alloy nipples throughout, blue apart from silver either side of valve hole.

Having got this far I wanted a wide, tubeless ready rim that was as light as possible and available with an offset drilling for the rear. The Kinlin 22T isn't available with the offset drilling,  so the remaining choices were Kinlin 31t, DT Swiss r440 or Ryde pulse sprint.

 The sprints are super light, but have very thin brake tracks and are expensive for a probably short lived rim. The DT Swiss are a bit narrow and shallow for ultimate stiffness,  leaving the 31T.

The wheels built up straight and round with fairly even spoke tension - only my 6th and 7th wheels, but they seem to be the best yet. I took a lot of care destressing and ensuring even tension using ear and ukulele tuner as well as tensioner. Final tensions are 1100N front and 1300N ds rear. Nds is around 800N or slightly over as expected.

Weight has come out at 900g for each wheel before tape, valve and qr. I've got a set of the superstar 22g qr's so they don't add much. This 1800g wheelset compares to 2200g for the previous dyno wheels I built with sp's pv-8 front, 5700 rear, aci alpine and strong (ds rear) spokes 32 3x  with 22t rims.

I've not ridden them yet as I'm waiting for some more rim tape, but hopefully will try them out this weekend.

Mike

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #308 on: 15 December, 2015, 11:53:30 am »
road.cc have a review of the tubeless S-One if you're interested.
http://road.cc/content/review/173205-schwalbe-s-one-tubeless-tyre
Everyone's favourite windbreak

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #309 on: 15 December, 2015, 11:26:12 pm »
road.cc have a review of the tubeless S-One if you're interested.
http://road.cc/content/review/173205-schwalbe-s-one-tubeless-tyre

Sounding good.

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #310 on: 16 December, 2015, 09:41:40 am »
OK here is an update on my 'mileage' (kilometreage?) on my REAR Hutchinson Sector 28 tubeless.

I have at last found the post where I described how I inadvertently ruined the previous rear...

On the Rural South 300 (27th June 15) I had a silly moment. I forgot to reconnect the long strap that tightens around the Koala bag on the seat post. Some time later I was descending a really fast hill with really smooth tarmac, touching 60 kph, and feeling totally secure, when the rear wheel locked up completely.  Oh shit, I'm doing an extended Swedish Rally sideways slide at over 50 kph, and the bike's not even slowing and it's twitchy all over the place and it's still happening and oh god I'm beginning to get scared and I don't know whether to jump or fight the slide till it stops...funny how you get scared when there is time to visualise the pain...  Any way I finally stopped and saw what had happened... The strap had wound round and round the rear axle, and in so doing it stopped the wheel... The tyre had worn right through the tread and two layers of puncture resistant material, and the damage was roughly the size of my little finger, and it looked horrible, but the air was still safe inside it, so I tried riding it expecting it to blow at any time, but it lasted another maybe 180 Kms..  Go figure...

With the exact date I was able to go on Garmin Connect and run a report on my distance etc since then, and I have done:-

8,596.2 kms

over 425 hours 36 mins 21 secs

averaging 20.1 kms including stops

and climbing 62,618 metres

THE TYRE STILL HAS A NICELY ROUNDED PROFILE, AND I'M PRETTY CHUFFED.....

Tyre now at 10,226.61 kilometres

Had no punctures/stoppages and it's still looking reasonable, and it's holding it's pressure well, and still pretty grippy, however I am thinking that I had the chance to retire early and enjoy my life, so I am wondering if I should do the same for the tyre?

Should I retire it early or keep going to the grim death ?

What do you do ??
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
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Morat

  • I tried to HTFU but something went ping :(
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #311 on: 16 December, 2015, 09:16:10 pm »
I'd buy a new tyre. Fascinating though it would be to see how many miles you can wring out of that tyre I don't think the knowlege is worth a face plant in the rain!
Everyone's favourite windbreak

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #312 on: 16 December, 2015, 11:32:52 pm »
road.cc have a review of the tubeless S-One if you're interested.
http://road.cc/content/review/173205-schwalbe-s-one-tubeless-tyre

Sounding good.

It does, doesn't it ?

Sadly, I've had an e-mail from a German on-line shop that they haven't got them in stock and they don't know when they'll get them.
My LBS (1st port of call) said the same, hence my looking for alternative suppliers.
This is a bit of a bugger since the GP4Seasons on the rear of the Disco (by far my favourite bike) is looking so bad that I'm very reluctant to use it.
It's lucky that I'm not audaxing or even riding much atm ..............


tiermat

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #313 on: 17 December, 2015, 07:44:37 am »
road.cc have a review of the tubeless S-One if you're interested.
http://road.cc/content/review/173205-schwalbe-s-one-tubeless-tyre

Sounding good.

It does, doesn't it ?

Sadly, I've had an e-mail from a German on-line shop that they haven't got them in stock and they don't know when they'll get them.
My LBS (1st port of call) said the same, hence my looking for alternative suppliers.
This is a bit of a bugger since the GP4Seasons on the rear of the Disco (by far my favourite bike) is looking so bad that I'm very reluctant to use it.
It's lucky that I'm not audaxing or even riding much atm ..............

According to my inside sources the whole -One range have had their release dates put back until the beginning of next year, now.  I am awaiting a pair of G-Ones.
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #314 on: 17 December, 2015, 03:26:49 pm »
road.cc have a review of the tubeless S-One if you're interested.
http://road.cc/content/review/173205-schwalbe-s-one-tubeless-tyre

Sounding good.

It does, doesn't it ?

Sadly, I've had an e-mail from a German on-line shop that they haven't got them in stock and they don't know when they'll get them.
My LBS (1st port of call) said the same, hence my looking for alternative suppliers.
This is a bit of a bugger since the GP4Seasons on the rear of the Disco (by far my favourite bike) is looking so bad that I'm very reluctant to use it.
It's lucky that I'm not audaxing or even riding much atm ..............

I've probably got a very slightly used 28mm One Tubeless somewhere if you want to try such a thing through the dark months?

PM if so

Mike

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #315 on: 18 December, 2015, 02:38:56 pm »



I've probably got a very slightly used 28mm One Tubeless somewhere if you want to try such a thing through the dark months?

PM if so

Mike

Thanks for the kind offer Mike.
I have an unused 35mm Marathon Supreme hanging around that I can use in the short term and enjoy the comfort of a large tyre  ;D.
There's lots for clearance on the Disco so I don't forsee any issues.




Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #316 on: 24 December, 2015, 09:51:21 pm »
Not come across Mantel before, but they claim stock of the Pro 1 Tubeless in 23mm and 28mm
https://www.mantel.com/uk/schwalbe-pro-one-microskin-tl-easy

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #317 on: 25 December, 2015, 12:28:56 pm »



I have an unused 35mm Marathon Supreme hanging around that I can use in the short term and enjoy the comfort of a large tyre  ;D.
There's lots for clearance on the Disco so I don't forsee any issues.


Hhhmm, much less room than I anticipated; I had to ditch my botch-up mudguards.
Haven't ridden it yet but the tyre looks huge; it measures 36mm at 80psi.
No doubt I'll drop the pressure when I get used to it.


tiermat

  • According to Jane, I'm a Unisex SpaceAdmin
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #318 on: 25 December, 2015, 05:56:19 pm »
According to a conversation I had yesterday, the Ones are now not due until the end of January :(
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #319 on: 25 December, 2015, 07:33:14 pm »



I have an unused 35mm Marathon Supreme hanging around that I can use in the short term and enjoy the comfort of a large tyre  ;D.
There's lots for clearance on the Disco so I don't forsee any issues.


Hhhmm, much less room than I anticipated; I had to ditch my botch-up mudguards.
Haven't ridden it yet but the tyre looks huge; it measures 36mm at 80psi.
No doubt I'll drop the pressure when I get used to it.

Pm sent

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #320 on: 29 December, 2015, 10:50:10 am »
I've had a shaky start with Tubeless. The promise of less punctures and being able to run at lower pressures convinced me to go for it and I have had several issues.

First tyres were IRC Formula Pro Tubeless RBCC
 - After 7km I had a cut in the sidewall on the rear which I fixed with a patch and it worked
 - After about another week I had another cut in the sidewall on the rear, I replaced the tyre with an old fashioned Durano+ and tube
 - The following day I had a piece of glass in the front that the sealant really struggled with, it worked in the end but there was a large cut in the tyre so I didn't trust it.

I ordered some Hutchinson Sector 28's thinking they would be a little more robust
 - 25km of riding I got a slash in the front that the sealant could not deal with

I must be the most unlucky person with this set up but I have not yet given up. I have ordered the Hutchinson Repáir kit and will see how I go. In the meantime I have taken delivery of  a set of Schwalbe S-Ones this morning. They look great and as much as I want to put them on the bike I am going to wait for the spring the amount I have spent on tires and sealant in the last month is eye watering.
 

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #321 on: 30 December, 2015, 12:36:34 am »
That's tough, Tippers....

Stick with it...

Whatever you'd been riding, something capable of cutting gashes such as you mention would have taken out any tyre I would guess...

Are you riding through somewhere where the alkies throw their bottles to smash?
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
https://www.strava.com/athletes/4628735/heatmaps/6ed5ab12#10/51.12782/-3.16388

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #322 on: 30 December, 2015, 10:01:34 am »
It is worth sticking at it.

I had a slightly difficult session last night when I decided to swap out the 25s on my GF Ti for 28s - all Schwalbe one. Everything was straightforward,  but when I let the rear down to put sealant in and tried to reinflate o couldn't get it to hold air. The beads just sat in the well on the, offset, rear rim.

In the end I left it for a couple of hours, cleaned it all up and changed the tape for new and it went up first time with the track pump - back to normal.

The 28mm Ones are huge on 19mm internal rims. Now I just need some guards that will fit...

tiermat

  • According to Jane, I'm a Unisex SpaceAdmin
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #323 on: 30 December, 2015, 10:04:25 am »
The front has held up, no pressure loss for ~4 weeks, whilst sat in the garage, nor any disaster whilst out on it yesterday.

This does mean, though, that I really must get on and do the rear (which I might well do as a series of pics) but I think I will leave it until tomorrow, as doing it today and failing would leave me without a bike to go to the pub on tonight!
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #324 on: 19 January, 2016, 06:59:47 am »
Punctured yesterday.
First flat since 12th May 2015.
Old tube out. New tube in, pump up and go home.
Fix punctured tube in front of telly last night.

No messy goo.