Author Topic: Tubeless for Dummies  (Read 194291 times)

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #600 on: 06 June, 2017, 10:14:17 pm »
Malcolm has posted a pretty good article recently (there is also a video in his latest news which is, umm, interesting) on living with tubeless.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres

Malcolm is keen to convert the world to tubeless and considering the mileage, range of bikes and various type of riding he does I think he is a pretty good ambassador for the set up. He's the only reason I am still even marginally considering it as an option.

The info on CO2 and it's effect on the sealant is of special interest I expect.


Interesting . The sealant is in contact with air all the time as you pump up your tyre with air. So not convinced about this PH thing when it also meets air on the outside. I haven't carried spare tubes on my road bike for 2.5 years now. The superglue tip is a nice one though.  Just need to get a puncture in my tyres after 3 and a bit years now.

I'm inclined to agree. The depressurization may lead to some evaporation, or more likely atomization, of the water carrier that would allow the latex and filler to dry out and clump. Whatever, it works and Malcolm is a bright chap who has an entirely sensible and scientific approach to wheels, for example.

Mike

Phil W

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #601 on: 06 June, 2017, 10:16:51 pm »
Found this 1992 European patent for tubeless sealant which pretty much describes the basis of what we are seeing now.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/d516d6a2615f5e71ced5/EP0508669A1.pdf

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #602 on: 10 June, 2017, 06:25:37 pm »
So here's a thing. I've just built a set of wheels for my next off road project. Tyres installed and juiced up with stans. I have stans seeping through the rim joint. It does seal but if I apply pressure on the wheel it starts to leak. What to do? Thought about putting superglue along the joint to try and seal before I remount the tyre. Any other suggestions?

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #603 on: 10 June, 2017, 07:13:04 pm »
So here's a thing. I've just built a set of wheels for my next off road project. Tyres installed and juiced up with stans. I have stans seeping through the rim joint. It does seal but if I apply pressure on the wheel it starts to leak. What to do? Thought about putting superglue along the joint to try and seal before I remount the tyre. Any other suggestions?

Bit odd - usually the spoke tension should be sufficient to ensure the rim seals, plus the tape should sort.

What are the rims?

I've been using some 25mm wide tape - equivalent to the Effeto Mariposa tape - that cover the full rim bed and onto the should of my rims. That may help, together with the tyre bead?

Mike

vorsprung

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #604 on: 11 June, 2017, 09:39:00 am »
So here's a thing. I've just built a set of wheels for my next off road project. Tyres installed and juiced up with stans. I have stans seeping through the rim joint. It does seal but if I apply pressure on the wheel it starts to leak. What to do? Thought about putting superglue along the joint to try and seal before I remount the tyre. Any other suggestions?

By "rim joint" you mean where the two ends of the piece that make the rim join to make a circle?
That sounds like a defective rim, get a return on it

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #605 on: 11 June, 2017, 10:19:18 am »
If you do mean the joint between the two ends of the rim then I had this with a set of cheap DT Swiss rims. There was no way of solving the problem without a new or replacement rim.

Torslanda

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #606 on: 11 June, 2017, 01:05:51 pm »
If the rim is described as"tubeless ready" then 'money back please'...
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #607 on: 26 June, 2017, 07:17:03 am »
After 2 years of faultlessly working... https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=101247.msg2181684#msg2181684

Off to go buy some stans tape...

jiberjaber

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #608 on: 26 June, 2017, 08:12:23 am »
The thing missing at the moment from my armory is some sort of rapid inflation things....
I've got a topeak race rocket mini but I've never tried to pump up the tubeless with it (they seem to be going so well at the moment  :o)

Any recommendations? I'm off to Maastricht by bike on Friday morning, so feeling like I might needs something CO2 based as an insurance... (plus for LEL obvs...)
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #609 on: 26 June, 2017, 11:20:13 am »
... so feeling like I might needs something CO2 based as an insurance... (plus for LEL obvs...)
Seems CO2 and tubeless sealants are not a good combination.

jiberjaber

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #610 on: 26 June, 2017, 04:55:08 pm »
I wouldnt be using it as a permanent solution - I've a track pump and air can at home for anything like that, so would plan to let the air out at home and pump back up... heck I could even replace the sealent at home if needs be...

I'd would rather not be stuck in the middle of nowhere so this is purely about emergency air when out in the field (I've got an adapter for car pumps if one is near by).
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #611 on: 27 June, 2017, 11:06:50 am »
Just take a tube.  It happens so rarely.

jiberjaber

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #612 on: 27 June, 2017, 11:27:03 am »
Thanks Frank - will stick with the original plan then :)  :thumbsup:
Regards,

Joergen

mattc

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #613 on: 13 July, 2017, 07:18:48 pm »
So who saw the ITV4 Chris Boardman piece recently about putting sealant in tyres? (and pondering why the pros don't do it).

Were they showing tubeless, or old-fashioned clinchers with sealant added?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #614 on: 14 July, 2017, 10:07:55 am »
So who saw the ITV4 Chris Boardman piece recently about putting sealant in tyres? (and pondering why the pros don't do it).

Were they showing tubeless, or old-fashioned clinchers with sealant added?

They were showing tubeless I think.  He was pondering why it was that the pros wouldn't want that extra watt or two in return for such puncture resistance. I can think of a few reasons;

1) pros have spare wheels and spare bikes readily available.  Once or twice a season, a handful of riders (with something to lose) run a risk of being genuinely delayed in a stage race by a puncture on a narrow road, because of poor race service.
2) it is probably a greater loss than most folk suppose, or that testing on rollers shows; in the real world (rather than on Crr testing rollers) the whole wheel is jiggling up and down over bumps and  the losses are likely to be greater under these conditions.
3)  the whole setup is appreciably heavier than with tubs
4) in the event of a flat (and you will still get them), tubs are a known evil, handling wise. Tubeless, not so much.
5)it runs contra to the ethos of 'marginal gains' prevalent in pro cycling these days.

You might just as well ask why it is that the pros don't add sealant to the tubs they use at present; it would work as well, pretty much, and would be a fair bit lighter (for any given strength etc).

Arguably you could make significant gains in bike reliability by ditching electric gears; since they were first adopted in the peloton,  I don't think I've seen a major race where no-one had a 'duh, no gears' moment.

cheers


GrahamG

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #615 on: 14 July, 2017, 10:26:25 am »
I took it as adding sealant to tubs, don't think he was suggesting switching to whole new tyre/wheel systems.
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #616 on: 14 July, 2017, 03:56:18 pm »
So who saw the ITV4 Chris Boardman piece recently about putting sealant in tyres? (and pondering why the pros don't do it).

Were they showing tubeless, or old-fashioned clinchers with sealant added?

They were showing tubeless I think.  He was pondering why it was that the pros wouldn't want that extra watt or two in return for such puncture resistance. I can think of a few reasons;

1) pros have spare wheels and spare bikes readily available.  Once or twice a season, a handful of riders (with something to lose) run a risk of being genuinely delayed in a stage race by a puncture on a narrow road, because of poor race service.
2) it is probably a greater loss than most folk suppose, or that testing on rollers shows; in the real world (rather than on Crr testing rollers) the whole wheel is jiggling up and down over bumps and  the losses are likely to be greater under these conditions.
3)  the whole setup is appreciably heavier than with tubs
4) in the event of a flat (and you will still get them), tubs are a known evil, handling wise. Tubeless, not so much.
5)it runs contra to the ethos of 'marginal gains' prevalent in pro cycling these days.

You might just as well ask why it is that the pros don't add sealant to the tubs they use at present; it would work as well, pretty much, and would be a fair bit lighter (for any given strength etc).

Arguably you could make significant gains in bike reliability by ditching electric gears; since they were first adopted in the peloton,  I don't think I've seen a major race where no-one had a 'duh, no gears' moment.

cheers

Do neutral support cars have to carry wheels everyone wants - pro cycling is full of superstition, including the marginal gains stuff;)


Of course, if you've an extra 50 watts in the seat tube, then you may not mind a couple of watts here or there

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #617 on: 04 August, 2017, 09:24:39 am »
I'm taking the jump into tubeless for my new commuter, with some trepidation. Stan's Notubes sounds like a safe bet for the kit, but how do you decide which width tape to use? the rims are 25mm Hydra - does that mean 25mm tape is right? Should I try a 25mm strip of paper or summat?

vorsprung

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #618 on: 11 August, 2017, 07:08:37 pm »
I'm taking the jump into tubeless for my new commuter, with some trepidation. Stan's Notubes sounds like a safe bet for the kit, but how do you decide which width tape to use? the rims are 25mm Hydra - does that mean 25mm tape is right? Should I try a 25mm strip of paper or summat?

The external dimension is 25mm  you want the internal, which is less.  Maybe 21mm

jiberjaber

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #619 on: 11 August, 2017, 09:16:04 pm »
I used schwalbe kit with 21mm on my archetypes if that helps
Regards,

Joergen

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #620 on: 25 August, 2017, 01:38:32 pm »
I've updated my blog article to take into account the problems that co2 has with sealant
https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2016/12/24/whats-so-great-about-tubeless-tyres/

Next experiment will be putting some Bontrager AW2 Hard Case Lite 23mm tyres on the winter pub bike (it can't take wide tyres) and using Orange sealant. 

I've used the somewhat bizarrely named "Bontrager AW2 Hard Case Lite" in a previous non-tubeless version and found them to be pretty good

Everyone says Orange sealant can cope better with large holes

Hopefully the two together will make a good winter tyre combination

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #621 on: 06 September, 2017, 03:59:52 pm »
After all my previous woes I'm back on tubeless for another run at it.

I've just mounted some IRC Formula Pro X-Guards on my Fixed bike which is what I will use for my Winter Audaxing and general riding.  These tyres are apparently about as solid as you can get for tubeless so fingers crossed they hold up for me. They definitely feel more substantial but the marketing blurb would suggest you loose little in the way of rolling resistance and they are definitely still comfortable.

I decided to give it another go after a few reasonably good mile on the WTB Horizons that I put on the 650b wheels. The only issue I had there was a rusty nail I picked up off road managed to find it's way through the tread AND the sidewall :-(. Using them through the winter for audaxing, general riding and some London commuting should give me some confidence in the whole set up come the new season.

I'll give some updates as things progress. The Flatlands 600 this weekend will be their first long outing after some London commuting during the week.

EDIT:
I should add that I think in the past the issues I did encounter were part of a learning curve and a few things that I think I got wrong were,

1. Using Stans Sealant which some now recognise as not being the best at Road Pressures and absolutely not with CO2
2. When I have had a puncture I have been too quick to rip the bead off and put a tube in. This video from Malcolm showed me that https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/tubeless-tyre-road-side-repair
3. Not carrying the correct kit with me to deal with possible slashes in the tyre

Having now seen a few live examples of holes sealing after a quick stop and finger held over the top and the video of the worm and super glue I'm once again hoping that I can get moving and confident that it will work.

dim

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #622 on: 06 September, 2017, 10:09:23 pm »
I posted this on another thread, as I'm looking at tubeless

from another forum, but very interesting:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/maxxis-padrone-tubeless-242537.html



“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

vorsprung

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #623 on: 14 September, 2017, 02:11:57 pm »
I posted this on another thread, as I'm looking at tubeless

from another forum, but very interesting:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/maxxis-padrone-tubeless-242537.html

I read part of that thread but realised that it is mainly discussing products.  And the thread is 6 years old.  So half the products are not available now, or they have changed.  So not useful

mattc

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #624 on: 14 September, 2017, 03:12:14 pm »
Is TG still using tubeless on the current attempt?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles