Author Topic: Tubeless for Dummies (Read 195081 times)

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #775 on:** 26 September, 2018, 12:40:28 pm »

Rumour has it, Continental are finally going road TL...

zigzag · « **Reply #776 on:** 26 September, 2018, 01:11:26 pm »

conti have been making tubeless (tlr) for a while, so they've got the expertise. hopefully their road tubeless will be as good as (or better than) their tubed tyres.

rafletcher · « **Reply #777 on:** 26 September, 2018, 02:23:55 pm »

Quote from: citoyen on 26 September, 2018, 12:38:59 pm

Just looked up the Galactiks - RRP is £59.99, so it sounds like you got an excellent deal there.

RRP £59.99. Wiggle £63.27

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #778 on:** 26 September, 2018, 02:37:24 pm »

I think you can still get them for around £25

rafletcher · « **Reply #779 on:** 26 September, 2018, 02:48:01 pm »

It seems the original Galaktik is discontinued, the new Galaktic has the new "11storm" compound.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #780 on:** 26 September, 2018, 03:00:04 pm »

It's a light tyre....So dont all rush out and buy them as they may not suit you.

I, however, find they ride slightly better than the Schwalbe One wired I had on before.

vorsprung · « **Reply #781 on:** 26 September, 2018, 04:12:13 pm »

one fairly reliable but cheap place to get hutchinson tyres is https://www.acycles.co.uk/road/tyres/tyres.html

the galatik is on there for £29.99 in 23mm only

Phil W · « **Reply #782 on:** 27 September, 2018, 09:23:46 pm »

Got a rear puncture last night. Sorted it out this morning and found all my sealant had dried out. Gurss the heatwave did that prematurely. Fresh sealant now in.

I have come to the end of my big bottle of Stans. What sealant are folks using these days?

citoyen · « **Reply #783 on:** 27 September, 2018, 10:38:00 pm »

I've got some Muc-Off sealant that I used when I attempted to repair the tyre prior to the 600. It has some additive that is detectable with UV light, apparently, to make it easier to spot a leak. No idea how good it is - as noted earlier, I had to fit a tube after about 30km.

What I can tell you is that putting a tube in a tyre with a load of fresh sealant inside it is a messy job.

jiberjaber · « **Reply #784 on:** 27 September, 2018, 10:56:10 pm »

Café latex appears to still be the favoured one afaik

sojournermike · « **Reply #785 on:** 28 September, 2018, 12:34:21 am »

Or Orange Seal Endurance, although I’ve just ordered a couple of bottles of the Oko Magic Milk from Planet X on the basis of price.

I’ve found the Orange Seal fine until it eventually dries out and will eventually report on the Magic Milk.

Also used cafe latex in the past with no issues.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #786 on:** 28 September, 2018, 05:49:44 am »

Stans is fine. Orange Seal Endurance is good. Currently using Finish Line.

GrahamG · « **Reply #787 on:** 28 September, 2018, 08:31:31 am »

I've got a big bottle of stans going for the price of postage if anyone wants it - prefer the orange seal endurance as it seems to seal quicker at higher pressures.

rafletcher · « **Reply #788 on:** 28 September, 2018, 08:59:17 am »

I've moved to the Finish Line as it's advertised as CO2 friendly and it doesn't dry out so no regular messy replacement Has anyone experienced problems using the latex sealants and CO2? I've always used CO2 to do the initial inflation of my tubeless tyres (those I couldn't get to pop with the track pump anyway) and I never noticed an issue with the Stans sealant, it always stayed liquid for several months.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #789 on:** 28 September, 2018, 09:08:20 am »

Quote from: GrahamG on 28 September, 2018, 08:31:31 am

I've got a big bottle of stans going for the price of postage if anyone wants it - prefer the orange seal endurance as it seems to seal quicker at higher pressures.

May I have it please?
Meet up and buy you a pint or two?

zigzag · « **Reply #790 on:** 28 September, 2018, 10:05:05 am »

i've been using conti revo (no punctures before it dried out) and mavic (three cuts of 1-2mm). mavic sealant sealed the cuts, but not instantly - the pressure had gone down from 90->60psi and the bike was covered in gunky mess. i've patched the cuts from the inside as the first one was not holding the full pressure and didn't want to take chances with the subsequent ones. it's a bit of love/hate relationship i'm having with the tubeless on a road bike.

sojournermike · « **Reply #791 on:** 28 September, 2018, 03:19:21 pm »

Quote from: rafletcher on 28 September, 2018, 08:59:17 am

Has anyone experienced problems using the latex sealants and CO2?

Never used CO2 tbh. Track pump to inflate and ride. When I let it dry out I needed a tube of course!

Phil W · « **Reply #792 on:** 28 September, 2018, 04:10:12 pm »

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 28 September, 2018, 09:08:20 am

Quote from: GrahamG on 28 September, 2018, 08:31:31 am
I've got a big bottle of stans going for the price of postage if anyone wants it - prefer the orange seal endurance as it seems to seal quicker at higher pressures.

May I have it please?
Meet up and buy you a pint or two?

Damn!

vorsprung · « **Reply #793 on:** 28 September, 2018, 04:12:57 pm »

Quote from: Phil W on 28 September, 2018, 04:10:12 pm

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 28 September, 2018, 09:08:20 am
Quote from: GrahamG on 28 September, 2018, 08:31:31 am
I've got a big bottle of stans going for the price of postage if anyone wants it - prefer the orange seal endurance as it seems to seal quicker at higher pressures.

May I have it please?
Meet up and buy you a pint or two?

Damn!

Make an offer of three Newcastle Browns and a whisky chaser! You might still edge it!

Ben T · « **Reply #794 on:** 02 October, 2018, 09:52:48 am »

Forgive me for being thick here because this has probably been asked before possibly even by me but I have either forgotten or didn't understand the answer. But:
In simple terms, why do more people not use tubeless sealant but in tubes? One of the benefits of using tubeless is touted as better puncture protection. But the bit I don't get is why this is a benefit of tubeless, rather than a benefit of 'having sealant'.
Is there some physical reason why sealant won't seal a tube as well as it will a tyre?

When I say 'sealant' I'm talking about actual tubeless tyre liquid sealant, not that green slime stuff.

Hypothetically if say I wanted the reliable fitting experience of tubes without it losing air until it's "bedded in", but also wanted the puncture protection of 'tubeless' (or, of 'sealant'), can I have the best of both worlds here?

sojournermike · « **Reply #795 on:** 02 October, 2018, 10:04:29 am »

Quote from: Ben T on 02 October, 2018, 09:52:48 am

Forgive me for being thick here because this has probably been asked before possibly even by me but I have either forgotten or didn't understand the answer. But:
In simple terms, why do more people not use tubeless sealant but in tubes? One of the benefits of using tubeless is touted as better puncture protection. But the bit I don't get is why this is a benefit of tubeless, rather than a benefit of 'having sealant'.
Is there some physical reason why sealant won't seal a tube as well as it will a tyre?

When I say 'sealant' I'm talking about actual tubeless tyre liquid sealant, not that green slime stuff.

Hypothetically if say I wanted the reliable fitting experience of tubes without it losing air until it's "bedded in", but also wanted the puncture protection of 'tubeless' (or, of 'sealant'), can I have the best of both worlds here?

By a strange coincidence, I'm about to give that a go. However, concerns are that sealant is less effective in tubes as they are more flexible than tyres and so move as air escapes hindering the sealing process and also that they remain susceptible to pinch flats. In the past I've used cafe latex in a latex tube that disintegrated spectacularly as I was riding along lifting the rear tyre off the rim - not sure if that was a consequence of the sealant rotting the tube, but it was very loud and very unsettling at the time. This time I'm going to try using one of the Oko Magic Milk sealants in a butyl tube, really to use some open tubular tyres (Challenge Paris Roubaix) I've got. Hopefully I can manage enough miles in the next few weeks to make a fair assessment.

In other news, I mounted a set of Vittoria Corsa Speed TLR on a pair of wheels I built at the weekend last night. Not sure they are really dark season tyres though... These will probably lead to other sales of wheels if anyone has a need!

Mike

jiberjaber · « **Reply #796 on:** 02 October, 2018, 10:06:19 am »

Quote from: Ben T on 02 October, 2018, 09:52:48 am

Forgive me for being thick here because this has probably been asked before possibly even by me but I have either forgotten or didn't understand the answer. But:
In simple terms, why do more people not use tubeless sealant but in tubes? One of the benefits of using tubeless is touted as better puncture protection. But the bit I don't get is why this is a benefit of tubeless, rather than a benefit of 'having sealant'.
Is there some physical reason why sealant won't seal a tube as well as it will a tyre?

When I say 'sealant' I'm talking about actual tubeless tyre liquid sealant, not that green slime stuff.

Hypothetically if say I wanted the reliable fitting experience of tubes without it losing air until it's "bedded in", but also wanted the puncture protection of 'tubeless' (or, of 'sealant'), can I have the best of both worlds here?

They perhaps would in some circumstances (thorn puncture for example) but not in others (pinch /snakebite puncture) plus added weight (if that's a concern). Whilst you will be able to refill at some time - it might be harder to check it is still liquid / how much is available in there plus eventually you will need to bin the tube if its clogged up with a fair amount of sealant....

I have ridden with some who have used sealant in their tubes and have since made the jump to full tubeless (though required new rims to support that jump).

Why not give it a try to see if the tube & sealant works for you? Tubes are probably cheaper than tubeless tyres so you could experiment to see if it works for you perhaps...

zigzag · « **Reply #797 on:** 02 October, 2018, 11:09:52 am »

sealant inside inner tubes doesn't work that well as the inner tube constantly moves against the tyre; it does keep the pressure at ~30psi (ime) so enough to get back home. plus, when the sealant dries out there's no way to remove it and you end up with unbalanced wheel (or need to replace the inner tube every few months).

andrew_s · « **Reply #798 on:** 02 October, 2018, 01:19:52 pm »

Quote from: Ben T on 02 October, 2018, 09:52:48 am

In simple terms, why do more people not use tubeless sealant but in tubes? One of the benefits of using tubeless is touted as better puncture protection. But the bit I don't get is why this is a benefit of tubeless, rather than a benefit of 'having sealant'.
Is there some physical reason why sealant won't seal a tube as well as it will a tyre?

Sealant generally doesn't work so well in tubes because the holes are typically bigger.

Usually, an inflated tube stretches to the size of the tyre.
Then when the tube is punctured, the hole is effectively also stretched by the same amount as the tube. The air leaks out with the sealant having difficulty sealing the hole until enough air has leaked out that the hole shrinks enough to seal. Then, when you pump the soft tyre up again, it's quite likely that you'll open up the hole and get extra leakage.

The answer is to use a mildly oversized tube, so that it's not stretched when the tyre is fully inflated - eg a 700x32-47 tube in a 700x28 tyre.
If you want pre-filled Slime tubes, you may have to pick the tyre to suit the available tubes.

Oversize tubes work fairly well on thorns, even without sealant, with the edge of the hole being a tight enough fit on the thorn to make a fairly reasonable seal.

Ivan · « **Reply #799 on:** 02 October, 2018, 02:39:52 pm »

Quote from: rafletcher on 28 September, 2018, 08:59:17 am

I've moved to the Finish Line as it's advertised as CO2 friendly and it doesn't dry out so no regular messy replacement Has anyone experienced problems using the latex sealants and CO2? I've always used CO2 to do the initial inflation of my tubeless tyres (those I couldn't get to pop with the track pump anyway) and I never noticed an issue with the Stans sealant, it always stayed liquid for several months.

I use CO2 to fit tricky tyres that won't seal otherwise, but I then deflate them and inject Stans through the valve and inflate normally so there should only be atmospheric concentrations of CO2 in there.