Game of Thrones

[caerau]

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It will be other way round, I reckon. Ramsay will have some sport with Osha - he needs Rickon as a hostage to blackmail Sansa and/or Jon into heading south to Winterfell. Once/if he's got either or both in reach, then Rickon's toast.

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Is it really Rickon though?  Mance Rayder or another wildling in disguise....?

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It's not a glamoured Wildling - Show!Mance was burned by Stannis and Mel in the first episode of Season 5, deep-sixing the two-way glamouring that Book!Mel did in ADwD (plus Tormund killed The Lord of Bones/Rattleshirt at Hardhome in Episode 8 ).

You're not alone in searching for a hope spot, but in this instance, what you see is what you get. The actor portraying Rickon has confirmed that it was Shaggydog's head on a meathook:

Theories about Shaggy actually being alive immediately started popping up online, with many thinking Shaggy’s head was just too small to be a direwolf’s. So was it actually Shaggy?

“Uh, yeah, I’d say so,” Rickon Stark himself, actor Art Parkinson, told The Huffington Post in an interview. The actor continued, “It was a little bit disappointing because, you know, looking at the dogs we had on set ... and that you’d never really get to hang out with them again. When I read that Shaggydog was dead, I was definitely a little upset.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/game-of-thrones-art-parkinson_us_5730d3c3e4b016f378968aee

In this instance, what we see is what we get - the Show!Umbers have handed over Osha and Rickon in order to get Bolton support in fighting the Wildings whom Jon let through the Wall after the Hardhome disaster. So it looks like what is popularly known by book fandom as the Great Northern Conspiracy* has been nuked.

Since the late and unlamented Joffrey's well-earned demise, Ramsay's been built up by the show as some kind of uber-villain, so having the Show!Umbers be arseholes and hand over Rickon is consistent with building Ramsay up just that bit more before he presumably gets his desserts at BastardBowl 2016. Only before that happens, the audience will have to go through another "oh, you utter bastard... " moment, just so they are really invested in Ramsay's downfall. 

Oh, and one more thing - a loose definition of a shaggy dog story is any story with an excessively long buildup for an unrewarding or even infuriating ending, often times a pun. 

* Which revolves around Wyman Manderley sending Davos to recover Rickon from Skagos and using him as a figurehead to rally the North, after they have royally fecked over the Boltons and Freys in Winterfell.
[/s]

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Yeah they burned Mance in the book too - (it's hard to follow the cut of your jib but it looks like you know this?) - but it was a ruse and he's live and kicking there.
Point taken though - I guess it is indeed Rickon...


But the Vale is on the March too - in support of Sansa and Jon Snow - woo.


Awesome stuff with Dany - I claim partial correctness on her getting them all under her leadership - although the method was not what I thought - I thought they'd all fall before her feet seeing that she could ride a dragon - horse lords would be impressed with that I thought.  Guess they still might be.

[citoyen]

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But the Vale is on the March too - in support of Sansa and Jon Snow - woo.

Oh yes, I'm sure Sansa is going to be overjoyed to see Littlefinger again after he left her in Ramsay's clutches. Not that any of it makes sense any more - if it ever did.

Did Brienne actually kill Stannis then? We didn't actually see the execution, which seemed uncharacteristically squeamish at the time, so I took that as a possible sign that she spared him. But now Brienne is saying she did kill him - or is she bluffing to wind up Melisandre?

Actually, it's about time Brienne had a moment of self doubt like Melisandre. For all her ridiculously priggish code of honour, she seems to have a habit of backing the wrong horse and so far all the people she's sworn to protect have ended up dead. No wonder Sansa was reluctant to go with her. It strikes me that Brienne is not very bright.

Littlefinger, however, appears to be a lot cannier, but then again... His decision to get involved with the Boltons always seemed a bit odd, and now he's turning against them to support Jon Snow's motley mob of wildlings. Given that he never acts without self-interest, what can his motive possibly be? He's the Thomas Cromwell of the piece, isn't he? Too sensible to want to be king himself, but megalomaniac/psychopathic enough to want to wield all the influence.

And where do the Greyjoys and Freys fit in? Both families have good reasons to hate the Starks, the Boltons and the Lannisters, so whose side will they fall on?

[Dibdib]

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And where do the Greyjoys and Freys fit in? Both families have good reasons to hate the Starks, the Boltons and the Lannisters, so whose side will they fall on?

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For the Iron Islands, I think we'll have to wait and see what happens at the QueensKingsmoot. But one way or another I can see Yara sailing towards Winterfell looking for revenge.

Walder Frey will, I assume, continue to sit on the fence in his castle at the Twins and wait to see who's left before backing them... and double-crossing them.

[caerau]

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But the Vale is on the March too - in support of Sansa and Jon Snow - woo.

Oh yes, I'm sure Sansa is going to be overjoyed to see Littlefinger again after he left her in Ramsay's clutches. Not that any of it makes sense any more - if it ever did.

Did Brienne actually kill Stannis then? We didn't actually see the execution, which seemed uncharacteristically squeamish at the time, so I took that as a possible sign that she spared him. But now Brienne is saying she did kill him - or is she bluffing to wind up Melisandre?

Actually, it's about time Brienne had a moment of self doubt like Melisandre. For all her ridiculously priggish code of honour, she seems to have a habit of backing the wrong horse and so far all the people she's sworn to protect have ended up dead. No wonder Sansa was reluctant to go with her. It strikes me that Brienne is not very bright.

Littlefinger, however, appears to be a lot cannier, but then again... His decision to get involved with the Boltons always seemed a bit odd, and now he's turning against them to support Jon Snow's motley mob of wildlings. Given that he never acts without self-interest, what can his motive possibly be? He's the Thomas Cromwell of the piece, isn't he? Too sensible to want to be king himself, but megalomaniac/psychopathic enough to want to wield all the influence.

And where do the Greyjoys and Freys fit in? Both families have good reasons to hate the Starks, the Boltons and the Lannisters, so whose side will they fall on?

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Oh yeah I forgot about Littlefinger giving her away to the Boltons - I am still book-orientated and she's still with Littlefinger learning the 'game of thrones' from him in that as far as I recall.  So I forgot that she might have reason to not like him very much in the TV story arc.


Now the kingsmoot of the Iron Islands - hmm - they've already done that in the book so I shall shut up here (mostly) - it is not what you would expect I think - especially as we haven't met some of the Iron Islanders most warrior-like peeps yet - though of course they could do it completely different to the books now so - well who knows... - damn I like these much better when I don't know what's going to happen. 


I don't think Littlefinger is at all malevolent personally - just very very intelligent and ambitious in a world of sharks.  I actually quite like him - books and TV series.
Though him and Varys don't get on at all and Varys is definitely a 'good guy' - er... I think...

[Dibdib]

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Just read an interesting theory about the Baratheon line of succession now that Myrcella's dead - there's no obvious heir to the throne. Apparently (and I'm not going back through the books to check it) with all of Robert's children, brothers, and their childred all dead, you have to start working waaaaaay back up the Baratheon family tree to find a branch which hasn't died out.

A hundred and fifty years before Robert was even born, an aristocrat called Corwen Baratheon married a woman named Leyne and had six kids. One of them, Arion, was Robert's great-great-great grandfather. The next one down to have surviving kids was Elyanna, who married a Lord named Mathin. Lord Mathin Lannister.

Mathin fathered Jason, who fathered Demon, who fathered Gerold, who fathered Tytos Lannister. And who was Tytos' firstborn son?

Tywin Lannister.

http://mashable.com/2016/05/03/game-thrones-heir/#IdCZEDFXUuqr

Now obviously Tywin's dead on the loo, Jaime has sworn his life to the Kingsguard, Tyrion has been found guilty of regicide and sentenced to death, which leaves us with... Cersei!

Obviously the only way she's going to find out is if Maester Pycelle dusts off Ned Stark's old copy of The Noble Houses of Westeros, and if he's reading that, he might well come to the same realisation that got Dead Ned and John Arryn killed...

[spesh]

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Just read an interesting theory about the Baratheon line of succession now that Myrcella's dead - there's no obvious heir to the throne. Apparently (and I'm not going back through the books to check it) with all of Robert's children, brothers, and their childred all dead, you have to start working waaaaaay back up the Baratheon family tree to find a branch which hasn't died out.

A hundred and fifty years before Robert was even born, an aristocrat called Corwen Baratheon married a woman named Leyne and had six kids. One of them, Arion, was Robert's great-great-great grandfather. The next one down to have surviving kids was Elyanna, who married a Lord named Mathin. Lord Mathin Lannister.

Mathin fathered Jason, who fathered Demon, who fathered Gerold, who fathered Tytos Lannister. And who was Tytos' firstborn son?

Tywin Lannister.

http://mashable.com/2016/05/03/game-thrones-heir/#IdCZEDFXUuqr

Now obviously Tywin's dead on the loo, Jaime has sworn his life to the Kingsguard, Tyrion has been found guilty of regicide and sentenced to death, which leaves us with... Cersei!

Obviously the only way she's going to find out is if Maester Pycelle dusts off Ned Stark's old copy of The Noble Houses of Westeros, and if he's reading that, he might well come to the same realisation that got Dead Ned and John Arryn killed...

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Pycelle already knows who's the daddy, so to speak - he was the one who ensured that Jon Arryn did not recover from the poison. He confesses to Tyrion about this, and other services rendered to the Lannisters when Tyrion confronts him after he has worked out who was informing on him to Cersei.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/What_Is_Dead_May_Never_Die_(TV)
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Clash_of_Kings-Chapter_25

ETA: Can't recall if he said as much but as Maester at the royal court in KL, Pycelle was probably the one who delivered Cersei's babies, so he might have worked it out for himself. He was probably also Cersei's source for moon tea for when she hadn't been able to head off Robert's attentions and sperm with a judicious bit of fellatio.

[Dibdib]

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Good point re Pycelle, and there's little love lost between him and Cersei anyway. I suppose Qyburn has some more reading time now he's finished with Frankenmountain...

[spesh]

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Littlefinger, however, appears to be a lot cannier, but then again... His decision to get involved with the Boltons always seemed a bit odd, and now he's turning against them to support Jon Snow's motley mob of wildlings. Given that he never acts without self-interest, what can his motive possibly be? He's the Thomas Cromwell of the piece, isn't he? Too sensible to want to be king himself, but megalomaniac/psychopathic enough to want to wield all the influence.

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LF's modus operandi is to play people and factions off against each other while appearing to be helping them, so getting involved with the Boltons does make sense. He pretends to help the Boltons by pimping Sansa to them, then he dobs them in to Cersei, who agrees that he can be Warden of the North if he mops up after the Stannis/Bolton clash and puts Sansa's head on a spike (fat chance of that happening unless she's no longer useful to him. As for supporting Jon Snow and the Wildlings, not really - more like he'd use them to further his aim of gaining Winterfell, but he'd probably stab them in the back as soon as the Boltons are defeated. He wants Sansa even more beholden to him than she was already, and he won't want the risk of Jon turning her against him. 

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And where do the Greyjoys and Freys fit in? Both families have good reasons to hate the Starks, the Boltons and the Lannisters, so whose side will they fall on?

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Based on recent events, I'm not sure that either family has had cause to hate the Lannisters - certainly not the Freys, who were rewarded for betraying the Starks.

I think the Greyjoys will have bigger fish to fry, particularly regarding the Kingsmoot. Besides Theon's downfall came about because of wounded pride after Balon was an arse to him.

Lord Walder Frey is either unaware of Fat Walda's demise, or if he is, going by previous depictions of his character, he probably doesn't give a damn. He's more likely to have groused about how much silver it cost him as a dowry (why else did Roose pick Walder's fattest daughter?  ). Regardless, I'm hoping the scene in one of the season 6 trailers showing Walder presiding over a feast is foreshadowing Red Wedding 2.0, which will render it moot!

[citoyen]

Hold the door!

 

[citoyen]

Have you chaps not read the books, before all this televisual-type stuff?

No, and I'm not likely to. I have sometimes wondered if it would help me understand a bit better what the blethering heck is going on, but this week's episode has clarified a few matters.

[caerau]

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Not it wouldn't help to...

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explain what's going on really because...

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1.  They're now very different to one another, less so early on admittedly

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2.  The books are a LOT more complicated...

[caerau]

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Boo!


 

[L CC]

Hodor.

 

[Dibdib]

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Poor Hodor  and Summer, too. I haz a sad.

So that just leaves Ghost, and maybe Nymeria.

[caerau]

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Poor Hodor  and Summer, too. I haz a sad.

So that just leaves Ghost, and maybe Nymeria.

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Yes he is a bastard Mr GRRM - we were set up to love those dire wolves from Ep 1 FFS     The Hodor thing was tragic but I personally found the reveal for why he always says Hodor a bit contrived.
I also found Bran's escape a bit implausible - surely the white walkers would catch up with him tout de suite - it's no like they could really get very far even after Hodor 'held the door'


Just when you think they're changing everything from the books they go and do it exactly the same again - re the Iron Islands folk.  The actor who plays Euron Greyjoy and his interpretation of the character was not nearly badass enough for me.

[spesh]

For an effective depiction of Euron, you really need to channel Greebo the cat in human form, as drawn by Paul Kidby:

http://discworld.com/management/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Greebo-the-Man.png

Greebo could, in fact, commit sexual harassment simply by sitting very quietly in the next room.

[caerau]

Yeah that kinda works well 


That's not what they've got in GoT

[citoyen]

That's not what they've got in GoT

It really doesn't help that the actor has a camp, reedy voice and a slight lisp.

[caerau]

Quite

[spesh]

That's not what they've got in GoT

It really doesn't help that the actor has a camp, reedy voice and a slight lisp.

Yebbut he's going to Make The Iron Isles Great Again... 

[spesh]

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Unfortunately, I wouldn't hold out too much hope on Ghost's long term survival, nor Arya reuniting with Nymeria and her wolf pack from hell. Going by what I have read, the wolves have been one of the biggest technical problems in shooting the entire series. The wolves used for filming never do what they are supposed to, which means it takes forever to get just the right shot that can be resized to dire wolf scale without people moaning about obvious CGI. This effectively shuts down production for hours at a time, which costs a fortune. OTOH, Dragons are a lot easier to animate from scratch, on account of not having fur.

I'll call it - Ghost will be yet another addition to the list of reasons why Ramsay Sue needs to die; Nymeria and her pack may well be referred to if the show visits the Riverlands, but will never be seen. She'll be missing, presumed having a good time nomming on Freys.

Quoth the Ned: "The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives."

[citoyen]

Seen on facebook:

[L CC]

Sent by No2Daughter

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[closetleftie]

Sent by No2Daughter

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[spesh]

Too soon, IKEA, too soon...