Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: LiamFitz on 22 March, 2009, 07:29:41 pm
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I've had great results from my 705 on 200k Audax rides and now want to use it for a 300 - but fear the battery, at 12-15 hours, just won't go the distance.
I was thinking of getting one of these - Garmin Edge 305 Portable AA Battery Charger uses TipExchange (http://www.gomadic.com/garmin-edge-305-emergency-aa-battery-extender.html) and have two questions:
- has anyone used one on the road with a 705?
- I hear that some people find that when they put their 705 on charge away from the mains charger, the unit thinks it is linked to a computer and won't work as it should (which would rather limit a recharger's usefulness when rolling along...) - Any wisdom out there????
Liam
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OK - I bought one of these and I've not had to use it in anger yet, like you I've found that the battery is fine for a (slow) 200km.
However, they send you one with the batteries side by side. It is quite flimsy and more importantly, you cannot get rechargeables into it and close the lid. I brought this up with them and they sent me a replacement, which has the batteries arranged in two side by side lengthways pairs. It is much better built too.
My plan would be to run the Garmin off the batteries to stat with, then go to the internal battery afterwards. Or carry more AA rechargeables with me.
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I bought a battery pack called Lil Sync for my 205 and it does work with my 605. You're right about the 605/705 thinking it's connected to a PC so you have to get a power only USB cable. I had a selection and tried them all and found one that supplied power but didn't send the 605 into PC mode. The USB cable from a Free Loader, solar power pack, also does power only. Check them out as they may sell the cable separately.
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Just to add, when you plug this adaptor in the Garmin lights up, so I have to turn the back light off again. It behaves as an external power source. The plug for it projects quite a way out the back of the unit, at least as much as the computer USB plug. So, if you can't get your computer lead plugged in when the 705 is mounted on the bike, you'll have to change the mount to be able to use this battery pack.
You can get other TipExchange converters, I have one for the iPod/iPhone too, so the battery pack will get me out of a problem with a flat phone too.
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However, they send you one with the batteries side by side. It is quite flimsy and more importantly, you cannot get rechargeables into it and close the lid. I brought this up with them and they sent me a replacement, which has the batteries arranged in two side by side lengthways pairs. It is much better built too.
I found this too but just assumed that that was they way they were built and thought no more of it. So good on yer Jaded for being pro-active! :thumbsup: I just use mine with std alkalines... and rubber bands to keep it together!
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Here's the Garmin mounted, and the battery connector shown
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3576/3380053749_213b60b6fc_o.jpg)
This is the 'new' battery holder, resting on the top tube for the photo
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3545/3380876780_9bf7f0b9bd_o.jpg)
Finally the 'old' battery holder, clearly showing that I can't shut the rechargeables in!
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3380078723_2a99626eb0_o.jpg)
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I have the Gomadic one you have linked to. (In a 305) it works fine as an external power source (light does not come on when connected but battery meter shows that device is charging).
However, it is not able to accommodate Ansmann re-chargeables. Also, the battery springs are very weak.
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The other one os a Gomadic too, they just don't seem to advertise it. I guess the margin on it is way less, as it is much better built. Also a better shape for fixing to a tube etc.
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Thanks guys
I have bought the 4 battery Gomdaic but now feel that the dinky version looks much neater!!!!
Hope it's waterproof as it look like its going to be soggy on Saturday
L
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Liam, they are both 4 battery.
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... and do you run it all day or just dig it out when the internal battery on the Garmin is getting low?
Liam
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hmm I know I am not an electronic genius but
1) There is a cheap and reliable DC-DC 5v regulator called a 7805. In various flavours but the one I have in mind does up to an amp
2) USB spec calls for "5 +/- 0.25 volts" and up to 500ma
3) A schmidt hub will do up to 500ma. And it isn't busy in the day
5) USB sockets are widely available as salvage on last years equipment
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... and do you run it all day or just dig it out when the internal battery on the Garmin is getting low?
Liam
Oh, I'm on the steep learning acent at the moment. (The one that the altimeter can't assess properly! ;D)
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... and do you run it all day or just dig it out when the internal battery on the Garmin is getting low?
Sorry to jump in here.
I've had my 605 going for 12.5 hours and there were still a couple of bar indicators to go. Mostly I use my battery pack to recharge when I'm camping. I have used the battery pack, with my 205, to run/charge as I was riding and once with the 605 when I thought it might run out of internal power 20 miles from home.
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1) There is a cheap and reliable DC-DC 5v regulator called a 7805. In various flavours but the one I have in mind does up to an amp
2) USB spec calls for "5 +/- 0.25 volts" and up to 500ma
3) A schmidt hub will do up to 500ma. And it isn't busy in the day
5) USB sockets are widely available as salvage on last years equipment
Already available hub powered chargers, mostly German origin.
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The solution is to keep lobbying Garmin to produce a version of the Edge series which takes AA batteries.
I can get 60 hours out of my eTrex with a pair of Lithium AAs in it. 40 hours or so with a pair of 2700mAh rechargeables.
The reason I haven't bought an Edge is simply because of the non replaceable batteries, if they had that it'd be the perfect cycling GPS.
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The reason I haven't bought an Edge is simply because of the non replaceable batteries, if they had that it'd be the perfect cycling GPS.
I think it is perfect, or at least very close, for cycling. The cycling that I do anyway. ;)
Do you want a GPS for cycling or audaxing? If I audaxed then I think I would find the lack of battery changing a drawback.
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I think it is perfect, or at least very close, for cycling. The cycling that I do anyway. ;)
Do you want a GPS for cycling or audaxing? If I audaxed then I think I would find the lack of battery changing a drawback.
Exactly. I want it for Audaxing which is a pretty niche market. Since I don't rely on mapping (only preplanned routes) then the 605/705 are over the top for my needs, a 305 that takes AA batteries is what I need, but a 605/705 without purchased maps (or just importing OSM) would be nice for the colour display.
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An update on the battery pack situation.
I've just got a (very expensive and very rare) USB mini extension cable. The means I can put the battery pack in my rack bag and run the cable to the GPS. It also means that the plug is no longer fouled by the (bar) stem. I was worried that this would eventually result in failure of the USB mini socket on the GPS.
(edited for rubbish ;D)
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The alternative could have been a tri-bag mounted just behind the stem although I'm not 100% sure that the battery pack would fit in it (I have a similar one I use as an emergency phone charger or to put a bit of charge in my Garmin Forerunner as it only lasts 8 hours, will check whether it fits later on). Still might not be ideal as it may put too much force on the cable where it exits the box and cause it to break.
Like this one:
Tri Bag All Weather - Bikes & Cycles Online - Tredz.co.uk (http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Topeak-Tri-Bag-All-Weather_19305.htm)
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Ah. I put my route sheet there!
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I think the problem with the Tri Bag is cable length.
Size-wise the bag is about 20 mm longer than 2 AAs placed end to end so either version of the Gomadic would fit.
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Ah ha - the obvious thing I didn't check! Looking at the photo in a previous posting it looks as if the cable from the pack is only 15cm... which, unextended, would make anything but taping to the headset difficult. Am I right?
L
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Flexible portion of cable from the 4 wide pack is 16cm
Flexible portion of cable from the 2 side by side pack is 14cm
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Thanks... now, what other pointless tasks can I set you?
Liam
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You could always make your own charger.
I made a charger for my Edge 305 following the instructions here (http://blog.motionbased.com/2006/04/booster_pack.html) and it worked fine. I just enclosed the battery holder in a zip lock bag and attached it to the underside of the stem with zipties. This seemed sufficient protection even in the most extreme of downpours.
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I think the problem with the Tri Bag is cable length.
This photo makes it look possible if the battery pack is placed in the tri-bag so the cable is sneaking out of the top/front.
This is the 'new' battery holder, resting on the top tube for the photo
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3545/3380876780_9bf7f0b9bd_o.jpg)
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It's turned up, so now testing it.
The unit doesn't go into computer mode when connected as I feared. I think I'll need to work out whether I use it either:
a) From the start and let the unit run itself down
b) Use the internal battery and then switch on the external source around 200k...
Ever noticed that you never have any batteries in the house when you need them? Or is that something to do with having kids?
Liam
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Well my first test in anger will be tomorrow night, on the Ride from Oxford to London. Except my ride starts 50 miles further away at home. I'm going to set out with the GPS powered by the AA pack, see how far I get on that, and aim to switch to internal when the AAs give up. The battery pack will be in my rack bag, and I'll take a spare set of AAs along just in case.
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The AAs lasted from 17:15 to 06:40. With the minimum or next to minimum back-light on. They were still going, so I don't know how long they'd last altogether.
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Worked quite well on Saturday. Ran on normal power until the 200K mark and plugged in the battery pack. Ran clearly with that from around 5.30 pm to 11.30 when I finished.
Mounted the pack in an old wash bag (ex BA Executive Club don't y'know) and three zip ties to secure it. Because the lead comes out of the bag next to the head the bag ended up at an angle to accomodate the cable feeding out of the bag and around the headset so an adjustment might be in order next time. A couple of extra CM in the cable would have been useful.
Thanks for the advice everyone.
Liam
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I've been using one of the longer style boxes for ages. Mine has a very thin coiled cable, which eventually started to fray badly where it exited the battery box.
Simple solution - chop up a standard USB cable and solder it in.
This is where I found something interesting: the original cable had the unused pin next to the ground on the USB connector grounded, whereas my cable only had four wires (and nothing to the unused pin).
Pin 1 - VBUS
Pin 2 - D-
Pin 3 - D+
Pin 4 - unconnected
Pin 5 - GND
Pin 1 - VBUS
Pin 2 - D-
Pin 3 - D+
Pin 4 - connected to pin 5
Pin 5 - GND
Running with pin 4 unconnected, the 705 goes into computer mode. Running with that pin grounded, it works as normal (and charges from the external power).
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As a follow-up, I've had a bit more time to look into this and have now played with a powermonkey and a couple of tips (kindly sent to me by the very nice people at Powertraveller), you can get by with just a four pin cable. You have to tie the two data wires together - so you get
Pin1 - VBUS (+5v)
pin2 - connected to pin3
pin3 - connected to pin2
pin4 - unconnected
pin5 - GND
This also means that you can control the 705 saving out its data to the file system. I don't know if the problem has been fixed yet in the firmware, but certainly early versions could run out of memory during a long (600k) ride, and start to drop the early data points as the buffer looped around - even if there is plenty of space available in the internal file system and/or memory card. Going into connected mode means it saves the ride out to file system, so you should never run out of memory (unless doing a world tour).
Now that I (think I) really understand what is happening, I can put a switch onto my battery box to change the mode that the 705 runs in, to allow putting the ride into long term storage if it starts to run out of space.
I should get the chance to find out if the running-out-of-memory issue has been fixed in firmware yet on the Elenith - as I intend riding there and back, bringing the total to close to 700K. V2.30 says "Removed time limitation from history recording." in the release notes, but I don't know if this is the same thing. On my long rides after I lost part of the "Bridge too Far" 600K I've had a stop somewhere where I could briefly plug into a computer to avoid this altogether.
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I should get the chance to find out if the running-out-of-memory issue has been fixed in firmware yet on the Elenith - as I intend riding there and back, bringing the total to close to 700K. V2.30 says "Removed time limitation from history recording." On my long rides after I lost part of the "Bridge too Far" 600K I've had a stop somewhere where I could briefly plug into a computer to avoid this altogether.
It sems to be more of a 'feature' than an 'issue'.
I'm not familiar with the Edge models but in the manual doesn't it say something about resetting the timer periodically to avoid overwriting the history data? Every 4h if you're recording once per second, or every 12h in default mode.
The Etrexes have a known limit of 10,000 track points and at default settings you'd be likely to hit this limit sometime after 500km, however if recording the daily log to card as well I don't think this limit even applies (and if it does your ride is split over 2 days anyway).
[straying OT] Incidentally I experimented over Easter with the Etrex recording interval settings - leaving the 'method' on 'Auto' (which I quite like) but raising the 'interval' from 'Normal' to 'More Often' results in approximately 50% more points being used. So a recorded track that consisted of about 400 points in 'Normal' mode now consists of about 600 points.
Raising the setting to 'Most Often' doesn't make very much difference - maybe another 15% - so the 600 points goes up to about 680 or so. At this rate the 10,000 point limit would be reached at about 300km or maybe slightly before.
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The Etrexes have a known limit of 10,000 track points and at default settings you'd be likely to hit this limit sometime after 500km, however if recording the daily log to card as well I don't think this limit even applies (and if it does your ride is split over 2 days anyway).
The 10,000 point limit doesn't apply to data logged to the card. I've done a lot of rides at 1 point per second, where 10,000s is only 2h 47m. You get all points logged to the card, and if you ride back close to your outward track on the return journey, you can see the expired points dropping off the start end of your track.
(60CSx, but that's mostly the same as an Etrex)
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As a follow-up, I've had a bit more time to look into this and have now played with a powermonkey and a couple of tips (kindly sent to me by the very nice people at Powertraveller), you can get by with just a four pin cable. You have to tie the two data wires together - so you get
Pin1 - VBUS (+5v)
pin2 - connected to pin3
pin3 - connected to pin2
pin4 - unconnected
pin5 - GND
I think an Arrivee 'how to' article on this subject would be really appreciated Matt.
Probably past the deadline for LEL, unfortunately.
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My Gomadic has recently developed a frustrating problem. I've so far only used it to recharge (rather than run) my Edge 305, and I recharge the Edge whilst it's off. It was all working fine but now has become a bit erratic.
Sometimes, I plug it into the Edge, switch the Gomadic on and the Edge powers up too. Other times, it behaves, the 'Battery Charge in Process' displays all fine and dandy like it should... but only for a few minutes, then the message disappears but the Edge hasn't recharged. First time it happened I thought the AAs were dead so changed them, but the same thing happened. If I leave it all for a couple of hours, same AAs in the Gomadic, and try again it's fine.
Anybody got any ideas?
Thankfully, I have a few months before LEL to resolve this but I don't know whether to play safe and look at alternative recharging solutions rather than risk it.
EDIT: Credit to Gomadic. I emailed their support with this problem and they've said it sounds like a problem so they are going to replace it for me AND with a unit that takes rechargeables. Fingers crossed that the new one works!
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Why not pack your mains charger & sneakily plug it in when sitting in the cafe.....but if there is only one socket free I thought of it first!
Quite a bit of charge can be had in 15 mins.
P.S. the edge 205 can be supported happily from 4 AA ni-cads for about 6 hours, then it's own internal battery takes over no need for complicated regulators.
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Came across this little challenge on BCM this weekend....
Twice, whilst attached to the Gomdaic, the Edge 705 stopped and the screen showed a picture of a white battery - I assume this was because there was no longer enough juice in the Duracels. On both occasions I ignored it (firstly because I had some new batteries in my drop bag which was about 45 minutes away and secondly because I was within half an hour of the finish).
However, today when I came to review my heroic climbing and vast distances covered...there was no trace!
I can't seem to find an answer anywhere, but do we think it's a safe assumption that because I let the thing die nothing was saved and was therefore purged?
Answers on a postcard?
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Answers on a postcard?
The white battery image is a PC tower. I think your 705 decided that it had become connected to a PC and tried to download to it but didn't save the history. Maybe the files are there in the folders?
P.S. the edge 205 can be supported happily from 4 AA ni-cads for about 6 hours, then it's own internal battery takes over no need for complicated regulators.
More like 20-30 hours.
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Answers on a postcard?
The white battery image is a PC tower. I think your 705 decided that it had become connected to a PC and tried to download to it but didn't save the history. Maybe the files are there in the folders?
Sadly not there in old history files... lesson leant.
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Sadly not there in old history files... lesson leant.
Do you have the basic info on the history screen. Time, distance, speed avg/max etc?
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Not a sausage - the last mentions are of a training ride last week and some fiddling this morning!
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However, today when I came to review my heroic climbing and vast distances covered...there was no trace!
Funny you should mention this. The tracks on my eTrex have gone missing. That would be because the 'record tracks' setting has mysteriously changed to 'no'! I'm heartbroken, especially as the Trip Odom is showing 653km...
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However, today when I came to review my heroic climbing and vast distances covered...there was no trace!
Funny you should mention this. The tracks on my eTrex have gone missing. That would be because the 'record tracks' setting has mysteriously changed to 'no'! I'm heartbroken, especially as the Trip Odom is showing 653km...
I had exactly that on The Dean. I can't ever imagine why I'd ever choose to set it to "no" so I'm guessing it was some ham-fisted/fat-fingered mistake by me. Got to the end and went to check whether I'd used up all of the track memory (still had 14km to go to get to the Travelodge in Wheatley) and found I'd used 0% of track memory.
Annoying as I wanted to check where I'd been slower/faster than the year before.
I now check the settings before starting (or when it's been turned off) and make periodic checks during the ride that the track is being laid on the map page.
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(Makes note to self to check this setting periodically)
... and make periodic checks during the ride that the track is being laid on the map page.
... but what you see on the map page is the 'Active Log' which sits in memory - not the log on the SD card
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(Makes note to self to check this setting periodically)
... and make periodic checks during the ride that the track is being laid on the map page.
... but what you see on the map page is the 'Active Log' which sits in memory - not the log on the SD card
SD card? :)
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SD card? :)
Some modern GPS devices have SD cards, or microSD cards, to record data. The ancient thing you have, GB, has little people with chalk and slate inside. ;)
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Answers on a postcard?
The white battery image is a PC tower. I think your 705 decided that it had become connected to a PC and tried to download to it but didn't save the history. Maybe the files are there in the folders?
Sadly not there in old history files... lesson leant.
I assume you've actually looked on the device itself using a file app to see if the tcx exists?
I've had a couple of annoying times (including BCM) where a crash causes a corrupt tcx - which then is ignored by Garmin's software. You can retrieve the data by copying the file out and manually correcting the xml, but it is more of a pain in the arse than riding 600km.
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I assume this was because there was no longer enough juice in the Duracels.
I think I may have a similar problem.
The replacement unit Gomadic sent me does the same thing as the first one did; i.e. does not fully recharge the Edge. It either turns the Edge on and/or just stops charging. But at least with it taking rechargeables it is easier to experiment.
On measuring them with my multi-meter, it appears that once the batteries drop below a certain point, they Gomadic stops charging. If I turn the Gomadic off and on again, it turns the Edge on. The Edge registers that there is an external power source but whether it's using it/charging, who knows?
Caveat: I don't really know what I'm saying/doing here BUT one of my fully charged rechargeables measures around 1.43 volts. The Gomadic stopped charging and the level was 1.34 volts. A similarly 'used' alkaline measured 1.29 volts.
Gomadic reckon 4 to 5 charges out of a set of alkalines... but there's no way I'd get that. One set would not fully charge the Edge if it were discharged! So it's going to make LEL a battery-fest for me! I'm either going to have to take a stash of charged up rechargeables OR buy new alkalines as needed then possibly carry them around in their semi-depleted state to use later at home. I guesstimate around 20 batteries would see me through!
Can one of you folks who have a Gomadic comment? I'd be interested to see what results you might have gotten.
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I dunno anything about the Gomadic thingy but NiMH rechargables are nominally 1.2V under load. Alkalines may start out at 1.55V but this drops very rapidly under load, after 30 minutes they will be lower voltage than the NiMHs would be. The (expensive) solution might be Energizer Lithiums - these will maintain a higher voltage for much longer than Alkalines (maybe 5-6x as long) and do have the merit of weighing much less - they are half the weight of NiMHs so you can pack twice as many.
7Dayshop sell a pack of 6 for £5.70 so its worth experimenting with them.
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The (expensive) solution might be Energizer Lithiums - these will maintain a higher voltage for much longer than Alkalines (maybe 5-6x as long) and do have the merit of weighing much less - they are half the weight of NiMHs so you can pack twice as many.
7Dayshop sell a pack of 6 for £5.70 so its worth experimenting with them.
I used Lithiums in my eTrex Vista HCx gps for the Brian Chapman. Very Impressed. Easily 45hrs+ and half the weight of a piair of nimh rechargeables. I'll be using them for my longer rides from here on.
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Just noticed that I left my 705 on after a long walk yesterday. The thing was still going, with 14 hours on the clock.