[LEL17] LEL fitness - what's really required

[ElyDave]

Longest ride so far is the Mildenhall 200 this year. I've also done single day ultra runninng in the past but no multi day events.

So, questions

- What level of fitness is really needed for LEL
- general mileage per year
- single distance ability
- average speed for a first timer
that have lead to sucess in the past.

[Frank9755]

It's a mental challenge not a physical one so, given you can ride a 200, it's likely you will be physically capable of getting round.   

Whether you can and do or not comes down to your motivation and mental state.  How you respond to challenges and deal with setbacks, with discomfort and with boredom. 

All the fitness and speed stuff will dictate how quickly you can do the ride but won't guarantee success.

[alwyn]

It's less about fitness and more about conditioning. Much like manual labour gives you useful callouses on your hands, lots of riding toughens you up for lots of riding.

I'm not fast at all, and have no interest in getting faster. I rode SRs for six seasons before doing PBP, and looking at my split times my speed stayed pretty steady throughout the event. But I was pretty comfortable throughout and had no doubt I'd finish it time. And I think that's what practice and experience brings, rather than success per se.

[T42]

Haven't done LEL but have a few 1000k+ rides under my belt. Ride a lot, climb a lot, go fast.  On my best ride I started with 8000 km and around 60,000 metres of climbing since 1st Jan.  Worst was with 5500 km and 42,000 metres. And 8 more years of course, the ones that hurt.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Get comfortable on your bike, get fast enough to get enough sleep during LEL and plan on finishing it, despite problems or discomfort. Only you can determine what is enough sleep or enough speed.

You don't need very much fitness to ride LEL (my first 1000 brevet followed many months of me riding literally once a fortnight) but the fitter and faster you are before the start, the easier LEL will be for you. I've only ridden two LEL but have finished more than 20 x 1000+km brevets. That first 1000 was a painful, drawn out affair. Subsequent long brevets with more fitness have been much more pleasant.

[Jethro]

I have never done anything longer than a 600 and have no interest in the longer events, but basically the way I see it is 4 x 300k and finishing with a 200k

[LMT]

I like to think of long distance riding as a pendulum, the more fitness you have the less mental fortitude is needed ime, and vice versa.

As a benchmark in terms of fitness I'd say at least 4w/kg, mileage is whatever it takes to get to this, the ability to churn out 400k + ride in a day with an average speed of 25kph should see you around. Of course people will do the ride that don't have this, but I'd use this as a benchmark.

[Somnolent]

As a benchmark in terms of fitness I'd say at least 4w/kg, mileage is whatever it takes to get to this, the ability to churn out 400k + ride in a day with an average speed of 25kph should see you around. Of course people will do the ride that don't have this, but I'd use this as a benchmark.

4w/kg ?
Over how long?
Don't have a power meter, nor any plans to get one, but according to Strava I'm barely averaging 1.2 w/kg on most of my rides.

I was pretty close to the limit on LEL 2013 & PBP 2015 on:
Distance per year ~ 5000km, consisting essentially of SR & RRTY and very little else.
Moving average over the longer events not much more than 20km/h
Didn't get a whole lot of sleep, but enough to get by.

Don't sweat it.  At one point on LEL I rode with a guy who had never even done a 200k !
Just get in as many miles as you can without getting in the way of real life, and as other have said, it's just as much about what's in your head as what's in your legs.

[Frank9755]

My Threshold power (what I can do for an hour) is 3W/hr. On long rides I might start at 2 and a bit but all day pace would be 1.1 - 1.6

[Fidgetbuzz]

As a benchmark in terms of fitness I'd say at least 4w/kg, mileage is whatever it takes to get to this, the ability to churn out 400k + ride in a day with an average speed of 25kph should see you around. Of course people will do the ride that don't have this, but I'd use this as a benchmark.

Sorry .. but my experience would say that this is just way way over the top of what LEL needs.. .. let me quote my Perth Albany Perth ride in 2014 from Strava detail.. age 72 .. Total riding time 60 hours , KW/Hour .. day 1  98, day 2 92, day 3 59 , day 4 70.  Total climb 6600 metres .. so flattish .. I weigh about 72kgs so output per KG .. 1.3ish ..

Mental determination to finish .. considerable .. 11 year old granddaughter had promised to ride the last 50 kms with me .. so pressure was on.

If I look further back ( if Strava is to be believed) .. I never managed much over 2KW/hour.. but finished all sorts of rides with  time in hand ..maybe not much time on the really long ones .. but those were the ones where mental determination got me through.

[LMT]

People are missing the point that I thought I made quite clear, better fitness means less mental fortitude is needed. And 4w/kg is something to aim for, I would not expect someone to keep this pace for the entire ride, but as a benchmark for fitness going into the ride I'd want to be at this level.

[zigzag]

averaging 3w/kg would be (more than) enough to win lel; 1.5w/kg is easily enough to complete it with plenty of time in hand.

[Somnolent]

People are missing the point that I thought I made quite clear, better fitness means less mental fortitude is needed.

No - they are not, they are taking issue with the rest of your post.
You might want to aim for 4w/kg, but since you didnt specify a time period, later posters were pointing out that it is perfectly possible to complete LEL with wattages of one-half, one-third or even less than this over the course of the sort of ride that the OP has already completed.

Consider it from poiint of view of a newcomer to this game.  Rides his/her first 200 and maybe Strava says he's averaging not much more than 1w/kg, and then someone comes along and announces a benchmark of at least 4w/kg.  What a way to put people off !

[Kim]

It's a mental challenge not a physical one so, given you can ride a 200, it's likely you will be physically capable of getting round.

I've never ridden LEL.  Never even successfully completed a 300.  But I know a thing or two about failure, and it seems worth pointing out that there's more to a physical challenge than fitness.  There's also not breaking yourself to the point you can't (or don't want to) complete it, which isn't quite the same thing.

Deciding that completing a bike ride is more important than avoiding long-term injury can be filed under "mental challenge" I suppose.  I've always been shit at that, on account of enjoying bike rides too much.

[LMT]

People are missing the point that I thought I made quite clear, better fitness means less mental fortitude is needed.

No - they are not, they are taking issue with the rest of your post.
You might want to aim for 4w/kg, but since you didnt specify a time period, later posters were pointing out that it is perfectly possible to complete LEL with wattages of one-half, one-third or even less than this over the course of the sort of ride that the OP has already completed.

Consider it from poiint of view of a newcomer to this game.  Rides his/her first 200 and maybe Strava says he's averaging not much more than 1w/kg, and then someone comes along and announces a benchmark of at least 4w/kg.  What a way to put people off !

4w/kg is a level of fitness, it's nothing to do with holding a wattage for any longer than what is needed in order to carry out a FTP test - you are clearly getting confused with what is a level of fitness and needing to hold x amount of watts for the entire ride.

And correct, people could complete the ride on a level which is less than this, but the point I was making and what you alluded to in an earlier post is that this would require a fair amount of mental strength.

Train hard, ride easy.

[rob]

God, it's getting like the TT forum on here.

You don't need to know your power numbers to complete LEL.   You also shouldn't really care. 

I'd aim to be able to get round a lumpy 600k and be able to have 2-3hrs kip.   Once you've managed that you can deal with LEL as the min speed is lower.

Definitely concentrate on maximising speed of passage through controls.

[citoyen]

Speaking only for myself, the biggest problem I would find in tackling LEL is the sleep deprivation. I am a firm adherent of the LWaB philosophy of riding fast enough that you can allow yourself plenty of sleep time. And that means I wouldn't be able to undertake LEL at my current level of fitness (I haven't actually done the sums but making a guess based on how much sleep I think I would need, and therefore how fast I would need to ride, I just don't think I could manage it).

Others find it easier to deal with sleep deprivation so can afford to ride slower.

4w/kg is a level of fitness

Fine, but you need to give some context to your figures. You didn't mention anything about FTP tests in your original post, and this is a thread about LEL, so it's perfectly reasonable for people to have assumed you were talking about riding at that output for the whole of LEL.

you are clearly getting confused

The fact that several people misinterpreted your post suggests that the problem lies in the way you expressed it.

I also agree with rob that getting obsessed over power numbers is not the right approach to completing any audax ride anyway. I've managed to get round several 600s without having a clue what my power output is. I suspect the same goes for most PBP/LEL veterans.

[Hummers]

Mental determination to finish .. considerable .. 11 year old granddaughter had promised to ride the last 50 kms with me .. so pressure was on.

Roger, what a fantastic moment that must have been and one that will last 

H

[Hummers]

Longest ride so far is the Mildenhall 200 this year. I've also done single day ultra runninng in the past but no multi day events.

So, questions

- What level of fitness is really needed for LEL
- general mileage per year
- single distance ability
- average speed for a first timer
that have lead to sucess in the past.

If you ride an SR series in 2017 and keep up your fitness with s couple of 200s every month up untill 3 weeks before LEL, you should be fine.

H

[Fidgetbuzz]

Mental determination to finish .. considerable .. 11 year old granddaughter had promised to ride the last 50 kms with me .. so pressure was on.

Roger, what a fantastic moment that must have been and one that will last 

H

Indeed Mr H .. she even has my finishers medal as her memento of the event.. which hopefully will be a lasting memory for her when I am long gone.

[rob]

Speaking only for myself, the biggest problem I would find in tackling LEL is the sleep deprivation. I am a firm adherent of the LWaB philosophy of riding fast enough that you can allow yourself plenty of sleep time. And that means I wouldn't be able to undertake LEL at my current level of fitness (I haven't actually done the sums but making a guess based on how much sleep I think I would need, and therefore how fast I would need to ride, I just don't think I could manage it).

Others find it easier to deal with sleep deprivation so can afford to ride slower.

I rode the first 36hrs straight through last time and then had 6hrs sleep each night.   This approach wouldn't suit everyone, but I can do a night without sleep and catch up later.   This may be a skill I have learnt over the years or a natural ability.   Not really tested it out.

[T42]

Actually, the best mental prep for LEL this year would have been the UAF version of PBP last year. Failing that you could do their 2017 1000k Audax if it falls before LEL.  UAF brevets are ridden in a pack with road captains, and are the best way there is of convincing yourself you can manage really long (well, middle-distance) rides.  You also have the security of a nice comfy van crawling along behind to pick up the waifs and strays.

Basically, if you can manage 22.5 kph over the distance you can look forward to sleeping 4 hours per night, which is a luxury compared with some rides I've done.  The hardest thing there is, once you set off to do a brevet on your own, is to keep your speed down to that at the start and save strength for later on.  The second hardest thing is convincing anyone you ride with of the same thing, unless they've done a UAF brevet.

[postie]

This is what i would do.
                                         1) join a local club to ride with, regular riding all year really helps and you may find riders with long distance riding experience.
                                          2)ride some winter 200km events, helps when the longer rides come along and your find riders who have ridden 1000km plus events.
                                          3) spend less time on internet forums!!!!
                                          4) enjoy it!!! And thats the most inportant thing.

Hope this helps.

[ElyDave]

wow, what a level of conflict in just 22 posts

Power  - 4w/g is c.280W for me, yes I can put that out according to the turbo, where peak is regularly >300W on interval sessions.  Average for an hour to 90 min turbo is nearer 150-170 at average HR around 145.

My sole 200 so far was done in 7:20 riding time, 8h32 elapsed time.  That was too fast.  My legs were dying towards the end, as were neck, shoulders, wrists, but that was on a DF which I would not use for LEL.

Hills - you do know where I live!  I'm sure I've found some at stamford in the past when I rode to Leicester.

This year so far I'm averaging about 70km/week, so 3500-4000 km for the year if I keep it up.  In all practicality with the travel my job encompasses a single 200k per month would be the most I could achieve.

Very interesting and varied approaches though.

[ElyDave]

This is what i would do.
                                         1) join a local club to ride with, regular riding all year really helps and you may find riders with long distance riding experience.
                                          2)ride some winter 200km events, helps when the longer rides come along and your find riders who have ridden 1000km plus events.
                                          3) spend less time on internet forums!!!!
                                          4) enjoy it!!! And thats the most inportant thing.

Hope this helps.

1) been there, done that, there are several folks in my local club who think you can only be a REAL member if you TT every week, club ride twice a week, and don't like recumbents.  I'm no longer a member
2) doing my first 100 on the bent next week, sorting out lighting for further in the winter when it's dark (various bits on order)
3) yes, I know, but looking after the kids today, turbo this evening when the other half is home and watching dancing
4) absolootely