Regulation 5.8

[mattc]

Do you not think that the bit about
... submitting an explanation .....may award ... if reasonable

is quite useful? I say this because members may object to it being eradicated.

[border-rider]

Do you not think that the bit about
... submitting an explanation .....may award ... if reasonable

is quite useful? I say this because members may object to it being eradicated.

Most of AUK seems to work by custom-and-practice anyway.

I think FF's cutdown version is the answer.

[teethgrinder]

but you can devise very good perms without main roads or infos / gps; a good example being Citoyen's ones in Kent which had 4 controls

Yes, you can, but is that always the case?
Is there any real disadvantage of using GPS for validation? I've thought of ways we can use it to, in my opinion, improve Audax events. We can argue about my improvements, or otherwise until the cows come home or, heaven forbid, we all agree. But is there any good reason why we shouldn't use GPS for validation?
Rides could even possibly be checked very quickly by a computer. Not sure everyone would agree to validation without human input though.

Quite frankly, Frankie gets my vote.

[mattc]

Is there any real disadvantage of using GPS for validation?

Devils Advocate*:
If anyone works out how to cheat, then just like other computer 'hacking', the floodgates would open.
It is making lots of extra points available to the IT savvy and those with budget for extra toys.

\Devils Advocate

PERSONALLY I suspect the advantages far outweigh these; but you didn't ask that

p.s. your quote from me was actually Martin, but it's not important.
*I have to say that to stop people shouting at me 

[teethgrinder]

It is making lots of extra points available to the IT savvy and those with budget for extra toys.

 

p.s. your quote from me was actually Martin, but it's not important.

Whoops, sorry Regulator mattc.

[Martin]

but you can devise very good perms without main roads or infos / gps; a good example being Citoyen's ones in Kent which had 4 controls

Yes, you can, but is that always the case?
Is there any real disadvantage of using GPS for validation?

the only one I can think of is that the bastard thing will break 3/4 of the way round;

+1 for FF's suggestion

[teethgrinder]

the only one I can think of is that the bastard thing will break 3/4 of the way round;

Same could be said about the rider.

Yes, that's one main reason why I don't use one yet. Having nothing but GPS validation really is for the future and not now. I think by then it'll be a one piece unit combining a phone, computer, sat nav, camera and gawd knows what else. Also, probably everyone will have at least one computer/phone/satnav etc etc... anyway, much like almost everyone has a mobile phone that does a lot of other stuff too these days. Not yet though.

I think we're right to ease into it now and iron out the glitches early.

[Martin]

if you are planning a DIY by GPS you will eventually need to stop to eat something so always worth getting a receipt just in case

[DanialW]

if you are planning a DIY by GPS you will eventually need to stop to eat something so always worth getting a receipt just in case

I agree. More than a few riders have had their DIYs saved by their gps units, when they've forgotten a receipt. The same has already happened the other way round.

[Jaded]

My intention with DIYs by GPS is to get a few receipts regardless. It's a big commitment for me to do a 200 and I'd be royally pissed with myself if I wasn't able to get it validated. 

[Martin]

Is there any real disadvantage of using GPS for validation?

Devils Advocate*:
If anyone works out how to cheat, then just like other computer 'hacking', the floodgates would open

this assumes that the DIY orgs will validate them

[Bones]

Danial,

I agree 5.8 needs altering and "FF's" wording is a good start. Perhaps another line along the lines of "where brevet cards are not used the organiser will agree in advance with the rider(s) which means of proof of passage, acceptable to AUK, will be accepted for that ride" Something like this, which I am sure could be better worded, would be flexible enough to be future proof, I think, and cover DIYs and Perms.

Bones

[DanialW]

Thanks Bones. I wanted to avoid 'scenario setting', as such things lead to inflated regs. I see where you're coming from though.

I'm not standing as events sec this time round, but I'm confident that the ethos of what I'm trying to do will carry on. In fact, my next little job is to reply to an email planning something new and (hopefully) exciting.

[YahudaMoon]

I'm not 100% happy with out the use of a Brevet card. how long have people getting points with out the use of a brevet card ?. Surely there club points could be an issue if the rule has been abused ?

[DanialW]

eh?

[YahudaMoon]

Sorry. I'm new to DIY perms. Ive nothing against them and thinking about doing a DIY perm myself. I've always believed you needed a AUK brevet card for all AUK events.

[frankly frankie]

Thing is, the rule was abused on a regular basis long before GPS became an issue.
eg - rider loses brevet card (happens all the time), rider continues round getting stamps on soggy paper towel, paper towel is submitted for validation, everyone praises rider for initiative and tenacity.

[Weirdy Biker]

I'm not 100% happy with out the use of a Brevet card. how long have people getting points with out the use of a brevet card ?. Surely there club points could be an issue if the rule has been abused ?

The more fundamental thing to me is DIY by GPS has the potential to change the game for various awards and trophies, regardless of how it is validated.   I'm still not settled on whether that possible change is a good thing, a bad thing, or even whether it is actually important.

Probably a debate for another day or thread though.  It's a debate I suspect needs to be had though.

[phil d]

I don't think it changes the game much, if at all.  The rider still has to specify a series of control points such that the minimum distance between them is in excess of the relevant '00 km.  Just like any other permanent, or indeed calendar event.  The only difference is that the GPS track is used to demonstrate presence at each control point, rather than obtaining a stamp/signature (or in more normal current practice, an ATM slip or receipt).

[border-rider]

It makes it easier to rack up AAA points, because you can do DIY perms with AAA now

I'm pretty sure you could get the fixed wheel trophy by slogging round the same 4 AAA 200k DIY perm every week, never meeting another person in AUK...

[mattc]

It allows riders who are a long way from ATMs etc to start from home.
GPS logging is quicker than using an ATM*.
Riders can avoid dual c-ways without going over-distance.

So:
every rider will save some time,
some will get more points for the same kms.


*there will be a few riders who can do a gentle 200km non-stop!

[frankly frankie]

Games change all the time.  Really quite fundamental changes to the laws of Rugby Union, sometimes as frequently as twice per season.   Tennis players are allowed to jump when serving.  Cricketers are allowed to challenge the umpire's decision - whatever next.  And all those sports rely heavily (at the highest levels) on New Technology, and most people think they're better for it.

[Jaded]

I'm not 100% happy with out the use of a Brevet card. how long have people getting points with out the use of a brevet card ?. Surely there club points could be an issue if the rule has been abused ?

The more fundamental thing to me is DIY by GPS has the potential to change the game for various awards and trophies, regardless of how it is validated.   I'm still not settled on whether that possible change is a good thing, a bad thing, or even whether it is actually important.

Probably a debate for another day or thread though.  It's a debate I suspect needs to be had though.

AUK has always been weighted heavily in favour of the retired/non-working with no family ties.

[Weirdy Biker]

On the counter point, it biases awards and trophies towards those who can take advantage of the technology.  Or who can come up with more "intelligent" routes than another audaxer (admittedly a current consideration with non-GPS DIYs as well).

[mattc]

Games change all the time.

So all change is good? we're not allowed to discuss proposed changes? We should ignore any disadvantages that change might bring?

(I for one think that appeals in cricket/tennis, and proposed goal-line camera-ology in soccer are not a clear improvement. So there.)