Trackpoints and OSM

[Charlie Boy]

I'm not doing very well with this GPS lark.

I've mapped a route in bikehike and reduced the number of waypoints to 150. This still shows me the whole route.

This looked fine on my Garmin basemap. Then I installed OSM mapping from talkytoaster.

Now whn I view it, it very briefly shows the whole route (only 42km) then suddenly tells me it's only 12km and stops part way (after 150 waypoints). Is there something I've missed when uploading it, or do I need to change a setting for the OSM rather than Garmin basemap?

What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions very gratefully received!

[Euan Uzami]

My suggestion is you're using too many different programs to create and view the route. Going from this to that to the other is like chinese whispers.
Ideally use only one. But two at the most (one for creation/rendering, one for transfer) if the one that you need to use to transfer (e.g. garmin program installed on your pc) is useless at rendering, and e.g. bikehike can't transfer it. Three is overkill.
This is why I love the etrex 30, you can just drop a gpx straight onto it as a drive, no need to mess with garmin software at all.


Regards your specific problem I would suggest, out of garmin basemap and 'OSM talkytoaster' (whatever that is), garmin basemap is more likely to be right. If you load the file and it shows the whole route, then the whole route must be in the file.

Why do you need to use 'talkytoaster'? I would say that's your weakest link.

Does it look ok on your unit itself?

There might be something in the gpx file that basemap is able to cope with but talkytoaster isn't. If you're conversant with the file format, open it up and try to spot what it is - if not, you can email me the file if you like and I'll have a look. I do know that some gpx file readers are more lax when it comes to adherance to the schema than others. IME mapsource is stricter than bikehike, for instance. Don't know about basecamp.



edit: also, what unit do you have, and what method do you usually use to transfer routes onto it?

[Euan Uzami]

When you say

Now whn I view it, it very briefly shows the whole route (only 42km) then suddenly tells me it's only 12km and stops part way (after 150 waypoints).

It suggests to me that "it" (whatever 'it' is you're using when doing this step) is loading the whole route, and then deciding you've got a 150 waypoint limit and truncating it to the first 150 waypoints, which is the first 12km. This suggests that what you've uploading is NOT a reduced route. Did you download it from bikehike AFTER reducing the number of waypoints, and did you definitely use the reduced file... for instance, I've often downloaded the full route, and the browser will save it as "route.gpx", then I'll reduce, and donwload again, and because it's got the same filename the browser will call it "route (1).gpx" - you could have taken the original "route.gpx" which is the unreduced one.

[Charlie Boy]

When you say

Now whn I view it, it very briefly shows the whole route (only 42km) then suddenly tells me it's only 12km and stops part way (after 150 waypoints).

It suggests to me that "it" (whatever 'it' is you're using when doing this step) is loading the whole route, and then deciding you've got a 150 waypoint limit and truncating it to the first 150 waypoints, which is the first 12km. This suggests that what you've uploading is NOT a reduced route. Did you download it from bikehike AFTER reducing the number of waypoints, and did you definitely use the reduced file... for instance, I've often downloaded the full route, and the browser will save it as "route.gpx", then I'll reduce, and donwload again, and because it's got the same filename the browser will call it "route (1).gpx" - you could have taken the original "route.gpx" which is the unreduced one.

Yes, the GPS is definately reducing it to 150 points, but I'd already saved it under several different names in an attempt to get the full route loaded. None of them will go beyond 150 waypoints on the Garmin, even though the original route in Bikehike has only 150.

Since typing the above paragraph I disabled the free OSM mapping from talkytoaster and used the garmin basemap, which works and allows 250 waypoints (as long as I follow off road, not onroad).

This is fine and I'll find out shortly if this will get me round my route, but the garmin basemap doesn't show many roads down here in deepest Dorset - only the mainroads.

So it seems I need to buy the garmin maps otherwise I cannot use functions like the map or routeplanner.

Ben T thanks. I'm now off to enjoy the sun and see what happens!

[fuaran]

What Garmin is it?

Most Garmins are limited to 50 points in a route with autorouting, or 250 points in off-road mode.
The basemap doesn't support routing. If you have more detailed maps loaded, you can still switch autorouting off, and then follow up to 250 points in a route.

And this is not specific to OSM, you would have the same issue if you bought some Garmin maps.

[frankly frankie]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ exactly right ^^^^^^^^^     The Follow Road Trap

I don't recognise the behaviour you're describing, but
I think your problem may be in planning a 42km Route with 150 points.  Far too many!

[edit - looking back, I see you're using BikeHike.  This is a BikeHike bug.  BikeHike is good for planning Tracks - but rubbish for Routes, for this reason, it generates too many points.]

Even in 'direct' mode, it should require no more than about 50.   I mean, how many turns are there, in that distance?  Even in laney Dorset?
If you want to use autorouting, then you needn't use more than about 10 points, for that distance.  More than that and you aren't giving the routing algorithms room to do their stuff.
Or download your 150 points as a Track, and 'show on map' and colour it green on the GPS, and that will work quite well.

Less, as they say, is more.

[Charlie Boy]

Thanks everyone.

Fuaran - it's a Dakota 20

FF - BikeHike just put in all those points. As far as I'm concerned one at each junction / turn would be fine. When I planned the route I only clicked in about 9 places to let it calculate / follow the road between those points where I clicked, and BikeHike filled in a further 540 points which I then reduced.

Ref the 'follow road' trap - I've only got options for Off road, On road for distance and On road for time. No 'prompted' option. But the off road selection seems to have helped.

What routing software would you recommend instead of BikeHike?

Sorry to ask so moany questions. The user manual is not especially good.</overstatement>

[Euan Uzami]

What routing software would you recommend instead of BikeHike?

Shameless plug: i'm writing a 'rival' to bikehike, it isn't particularly full featured yet but does have the benefit that it's in continuous* development, and if you want a specific feature you can request it (on this thread http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=60946.0 or email me from the contact section on the front page) and there's always a chance I'll put it in.

See link in sig.

* time permitting, probably faster during bad weather!

[hbunnet]

See link in sig.

Ah! Been wondering where the link was. I have sigs turned off for reading at work.   I'll have a look soon.

[fuaran]

What routing software would you recommend instead of BikeHike?

You could try Garmin BaseCamp. You can install OpenStreetMap based maps in it. Then at least it will have the same roads and similar routing to what's on the Dakota.
Then its fairly easy to plot routes and transfer them to and from the device.

[frankly frankie]

FF - BikeHike just put in all those points. As far as I'm concerned one at each junction / turn would be fine. When I planned the route I only clicked in about 9 places to let it calculate / follow the road between those points where I clicked, and BikeHike filled in a further 540 points which I then reduced.

Ref the 'follow road' trap - I've only got options for Off road, On road for distance and On road for time. No 'prompted' option. But the off road selection seems to have helped.

If you see those options, that is 'prompted mode.  The GPS defaults to that mode when a routable map (such as some versions of OSM) is first installed.  So that's good!

I'm not a bikehike expert, but if it has a points reduction feature then I would try reducing them further - to a maximum of 50 if you want to use autorouting (because more than that simply will not work, end of).  But for such a short distance as 42km it needs to be fewer than that, try 15 if it will go that low. 

After all, you plotted it with 9 clicks - you want the GPS to replicate that thinking, however that may be a bit over-optimistic (partly because of the map mismatch) which is why I suggest 15, not 9.  If the points are more frequent than that all you'll get is a confusion of unnecessary prompts (because each upcoming point generates a prompt, plus each turn generates a prompt) and ideally all you want is prompts at turns.

However since its a Dakota, you could utilise its excellent Track-navigation ability.  Download your planned route as a Track gpx instead of a Route.  No need to reduce points at all.  In the GPS, use the Where To menu as usual but instead of loading a Route, load the Track.

[frankly frankie]

FF - BikeHike just put in all those points. As far as I'm concerned one at each junction / turn would be fine.

Then you could switch BikeHike into 'direct' mode - untick the option for 'Follow Road (google map)', then construct your route by clicking on each junction/turn, then download as a route.gpx

This should work OK with the GPS in 'direct' mode.
If there are fewer than 50 points you can also try the GPS in 'follow road' mode and it will probably be OK, but not ideal in terms of how the prompts are presented (why?**).

** the prompts generated by the waypoints "approaching next point" will tend to override the prompts generated by the autorouting algorithm, which (if you could see them) would be saying something like "approaching left turn onto Grassy Lane".   

[Auntie Helen]

As FF says, if it's a Dakota (like my Oregon) then use the GPX track feature and you have 10,000 trackpoints which is a heck of a lot! You don't get turn-by-turn instructions doing this but you can follow the purple track to see where to go.

I use Talkytoaster's OSM map and it's fine.

Oh, and I just download straight from Bikehike into the Oregon, no fiddling about with Basecamp (whatever that is!)