TCR no8.

[S2L]

The recipe for rides with a significant altitude profile is fairly simple...

1) Lose as much weight as it's sensible... it can be a pound, a stone or 5. I expect anyone wanting to "race" would want to be in a normal BMI range at the very least.

2) Work on your aerobic power output... aim for something around (or in excess of) 3 Watt/Kg.. something you can sustain for an hour

3) Look at gear ratios of less than 1:1 for steep gradients

In this order... starting from the gears is a defeating attitude

Everybody who struggle with their climbing (unless they have knee or back issues) are let down by 1), 2) or 3) ... or a combination of them

[quixoticgeek]

The recipe for rides with a significant altitude profile is fairly simple...

1) Lose as much weight as it's sensible... it can be a pound, a stone or 5. I expect anyone wanting to "race" would want to be in a normal BMI range at the very least.

Working on it, but it's hard as a side effect of the medication I have to take to not die is weight gain.

2) Work on your aerobic power output... aim for something around (or in excess of) 3 Watt/Kg.. something you can sustain for an hour

As discussed at length in a previous thread, it seems to be a general consensus that 3W/kg is just not realistic

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=108743

Tho Frank suggests that climbing some mountains at 130w is plausible. Being able to do that on day 1 is one thing, doing it on day 10 is another.

3) Look at gear ratios of less than 1:1 for steep gradients

In this order... starting from the gears is a defeating attitude

No it's not. Your bike needs gears to be able to be ridden, otherwise it's a balance bike. Therefore I may as well install gears appropriate to the target use, else it's just wasting money.

Just once, I'd like you to say something positive and nice in reply to one of my posts...

J

[S2L]

Just once, I'd like you to say something positive and nice in reply to one of my posts...

J

Primarily, I am trying to say something true. If you prefer to hear that you can climb anything with 1.5 Watt/Kg as long as the gears are low enough, then I can say that, but I don't mean it.

When  the power is too low, the speed is also too low and you simply can't stand upright... so you go down or you gracefully climb down and walk.
Cycling at  3 km/h uphill is not easy... balance becomes an issue

On a moderately loaded bike you will need 3.5 Watt/kg to travel at 8 km/h on a 10% incline... if you have 1.75 Watt/kg then you will only travel at about 4 km/h, dangerously close to falling off. Anything beyond 10% will realistically mean walking

[quixoticgeek]

Primarily, I am trying to say something true. If you prefer to hear that you can climb anything with 1.5 Watt/Kg as long as the gears are low enough, then I can say that, but I don't mean it.

When  the power is too low, the speed is also too low and you simply can't stand upright... so you go down or you gracefully climb down and walk.
Cycling at less than 3 km/h uphill is not easy... balance becomes an issue

It was more the starting from a point of gears comment that annoyed me.

J

[S2L]

It was more the starting from a point of gears comment that annoyed me.

J

... because gears can only help so much and don't address the real problem. You need a trike if you want to cycle uphill really slow with very small gears... with two wheels gears don't help much

[quixoticgeek]

... because gears can only help so much and don't address the real problem. You need a trike if you want to cycle uphill really slow with very small gears... with two wheels gears don't help much

But they are still something that can be really easily changed. There's no point running a 53/39 and an 11-28 cassette, when you're installing new gears anyway, it's a simple move to put in something low. To do otherwise, the inability to turn the pedals point kicks in at a much higher speed.

J

[Kim]

With two wheels gears help down to your likely stall speed, which makes it reasonably easy to work out the bottom limit should be, as you only need to know what a reasonable cadence for balancing the bike at low speed with a b0rked knee (or equivalent) is, rather than having to get into power and mass and gradient.

So you might as well start there, on the basis that the sooner you get the bike sorted out the sooner you can train with it.

[hatler]

Can I just say I'm in awe of anyone who simply attempts TCR, let alone thinks they can finish it.

[S2L]

... because gears can only help so much and don't address the real problem. You need a trike if you want to cycle uphill really slow with very small gears... with two wheels gears don't help much

But they are still something that can be really easily changed. There's no point running a 53/39 and an 11-28 cassette, when you're installing new gears anyway, it's a simple move to put in something low. To do otherwise, the inability to turn the pedals point kicks in at a much higher speed.

J

Of course, as long as you realise that it's not with gears that you will get up the mountains. By the look of things, you have already a remarkably low gearing set up (28 x 40, if I understand correctly?)... I am surprised you can actually use it, as I think at a reasonable cadence, the speed is probably too low to be upright.

So, that leaves you with the real issue to deal with... power to weight ratio

[Kim]

Can I just say I'm in awe of anyone who simply attempts TCR, let alone thinks they can finish it.

+1

[zigzag]

Of course, as long as you realise that it's not with gears that you will get up the mountains. By the look of things, you have already a remarkably low gearing set up (28 x 40, if I understand correctly?)... I am surprised you can actually use it, as I think at a reasonable cadence, the speed is probably too low to be upright.

So, that leaves you with the real issue to deal with... power to weight ratio

not sure if you are aware, but many mountain bikers are using 30x50 lowest gear and stay upright just fine, even balancing wheel slip. so while 28x40 is a very low gear there's nothing to be surprised about.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Can I just say I'm in awe of anyone who simply attempts TCR, let alone thinks they can finish it.

Muchly. Even if they "do it touring".

[S2L]

Of course, as long as you realise that it's not with gears that you will get up the mountains. By the look of things, you have already a remarkably low gearing set up (28 x 40, if I understand correctly?)... I am surprised you can actually use it, as I think at a reasonable cadence, the speed is probably too low to be upright.

So, that leaves you with the real issue to deal with... power to weight ratio

not sure if you are aware, but many mountain bikers are using 30x50 lowest gear and stay upright just fine, even balancing wheel slip. so while 28x40 is a very low gear there's nothing to be surprised about.

I had a mountain bike, in the days when 28 x 36 was the smallest gear... usable in very few instances, but possible on a bike with 2.5 inch tyres, no load and very wide flat bars... on 25 mm tyres, with a loaded bike and road bars?... not so sure

[grams]

I think it’s awesome you’re having another go.

Anyone prescribing a specific W/kg is telling you not to bother and that only certain body types should enter, and that sucks.

The lowest gear on my touring bike is 24x36 and it’s definitely still faster and more pleasant than walking and doesn’t feel anywhere near the lowest viable gear.

That said, focusing on very steep hills is probably less important than getting up very long, less steep hills, which I think are more numerous?

[mattc]

TCR is not a time trial, it is a race against opponents.

... TCR is no different. It's not a time trial, it's a race... very different thing.
If folks don't get that point, then they don't get the spirit of the event.

Sounds to me like you don't understand time trials.

[morbihan]

THE SPIRIT OF THE RACE

“… whatever commentary might be shared online by spectators we are really in a contract of integrity with our peers and it’s only those who have really been there who know the nuances of what is involved…”

Mike Hall 2016

QG you are a peer. 
Do your thing. Train for Brest and the rest is all background noise.

[Phil W]

Of course, as long as you realise that it's not with gears that you will get up the mountains. By the look of things, you have already a remarkably low gearing set up (28 x 40, if I understand correctly?)... I am surprised you can actually use it, as I think at a reasonable cadence, the speed is probably too low to be upright.

So, that leaves you with the real issue to deal with... power to weight ratio

not sure if you are aware, but many mountain bikers are using 30x50 lowest gear and stay upright just fine, even balancing wheel slip. so while 28x40 is a very low gear there's nothing to be surprised about.

I had a mountain bike, in the days when 28 x 36 was the smallest gear... usable in very few instances, but possible on a bike with 2.5 inch tyres, no load and very wide flat bars... on 25 mm tyres, with a loaded bike and road bars?... not so sure

Hmm, 22 X 34 is Shimano's lowest gear of mountain biking from the 9 speed era. I still have that drive train on one of my bikes. That works out at .65 comparable to 30 / 50 which is .6 and 28 / 40 which is .7. Not sure where you get 28 X 36 from as I'm sure 36 on a cassette came after 9 speed.

It's perfectly usable , was so when mtn bikes were still in the 1.75"  1.95" range of tyre width, which is 44-50mm in modern parlance. Plus it was useable technical off road uphill.  If a hill was too steep you'd lift front wheel but for getting through technical uphill sections, perfect.  Sure some adventure bikes used on TCR won't be so far off those widths.

Good luck QG I'd say your gearing is fine. If you have to walk you have to walk, but by that point it'll be faster than riding anyway. 

[orraloon]

As there are sufficient numbers of proper TCR riders on here, a question from a Dotwatcher.

Volunteering for a CP.  I could not contemplate entering TCRn, too old, too much a hobby cyclist, etc.  I was thinking about volunteering for a CP.  But.  Should I get a place on that, given that volunteering gets individuals brownie points for getting accepted onto a future race, would I be blocking an aspirational 'proper' rider?

I'd like to help and support.  But I would not want to deprive someone of a chance to enter.

Or am I being too sensitive?

[rob]

I’ve just bought my first geared bike in, probably, 10 years.

My lowest gear is 34*28.  Should I be worried ?

[Jurek]

I think it’s awesome you’re having another go.

Anyone prescribing a specific W/kg is telling you not to bother and that only certain body types should enter, and that sucks.

The lowest gear on my touring bike is 24x36 and it’s definitely still faster and more pleasant than walking and doesn’t feel anywhere near the lowest viable gear.

That said, focusing on very steep hills is probably less important than getting up very long, less steep hills, which I think are more numerous?

I'm struggling to argue with the first line of that post

[quixoticgeek]

Sorry, I'm going to have to duck out of this thread, I've received a PM asking me to stop.

Thanks everyone for the supportive comments, maybe see some of you on the road.

J

[Paul H]

Sorry, I'm going to have to duck out of this thread, I've received a PM asking me to stop.

J

Tell them to sod off 

[Jurek]

Sorry, I'm going to have to duck out of this thread, I've received a PM asking me to stop.

Thanks everyone for the supportive comments, maybe see some of you on the road.

J

My bold
That'd be so cool.

[bludger]

I’ve just bought my first geared bike in, probably, 10 years.

My lowest gear is 34*28.  Should I be worried ?

My first road bike was 34*28. I never carried really big loads (aside from myself...) up big chunky steep hills on it but for general riding I think it is adequate. I don't regret having moved to 34*32 though!

[Bolt]

Good luck QG I'd say your gearing is fine. If you have to walk you have to walk, but by that point it'll be faster than riding anyway.

Absolutely! and I find in those "get off and walk" situations that it's good to consider that the small amount of time walking with the bike as being extremely beneficial for the miles that lay ahead... just keep moving