Author Topic: Sky - gaming the system?  (Read 188071 times)

Karla

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Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1550 on: 01 April, 2021, 07:13:05 pm »
In 5 weeks time the statute of limitations kicks in and they will have got away with it.

If you believe that, you'll believe Lance still has five of his Tour wins.

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1551 on: 01 April, 2021, 07:22:03 pm »
I'm not a big believer of "no smoke without fire".  Tbf I am more suspicious of the current Tour winner than of past winners who have been tested and investigated but nothing concrete has been found.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1552 on: 01 April, 2021, 07:32:32 pm »
In 5 weeks time the statute of limitations kicks in and they will have got away with it.

If you believe that, you'll believe Lance still has five of his Tour wins.

What did for Amstrong is that the WADA code states that the statute of limitations (8 years) has to be dealt with in the context of the law in the place of domicile of the athlete (so US, rather than Switzerland, home of UCI/WADA). Under US law time limitations cease to exist if the person can be proved to have concealed evidence or lied.  Armstrong lied under path to USADA, to a French judge, intimidated witnesses etc.

Section 32 Limitation Act 1980 in our law is analogous to this, so the provision is there...but I'm not sure if any of the Sky scandals have involved giving evidence under oath.

So, you may be right...but it depends on the above I think.


Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1553 on: 01 April, 2021, 07:33:16 pm »
I'm not a big believer of "no smoke without fire".  Tbf I am more suspicious of the current Tour winner than of past winners who have been tested and investigated but nothing concrete has been found.

Very naive

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1554 on: 01 April, 2021, 09:54:54 pm »
Possibly, after all this is the same view that Armstrong is more likely to be innocent due to having been tested and checked so many times.

The problem is that assuming someone is guilty because their guilt has been oft suggested but never proven is also an issue.

I haven't watched much racing in the last three years and the last Tour, for me, was more Sci-Fi than reality TV.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1555 on: 01 April, 2021, 10:13:06 pm »
I'm not sure at which points pro cycling hasn't been science fiction. I've always watched it, regardless, apart from the Indurain era where it stretched my disbelief to breaking point plus it was boring. For all the underlying truths of the Armstrong era, it was dramatic.

I suppose with Sky it is just embarrassing to be from the country with whom the team identifies and whose victories are used to burnish nationalistic credentials...you know it is founded on bullshit. And what bullshit. The pseudo science. The hagiography. The client journalists who might as well be Sky PR, but most of all the arrogance to think that we will just swallow the crap.

rogerzilla

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Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1556 on: 02 April, 2021, 07:09:11 am »
I wonder if Armstrong will ever revise his first book?  "It's All About The Drugs" would be a good title and it would probably sell quite well.
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mattc

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Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1557 on: 02 April, 2021, 08:05:28 am »
I wonder if Armstrong will ever revise his first book?  "It's All About The Drugs" would be a good title and it would probably sell quite well.
It's no joke - if he writes a Millar-style confessional it will sell millions.
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Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1558 on: 02 April, 2021, 10:47:48 am »
And there’s more

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/56603585.amp

Presumably at some point they’ll strip Sky of all results, Brailsford will ‘fall’ and British Cycling also.

The UK looked like East Germany in its use of sport to promote nationalism and, as was evident already, used East German methods.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1559 on: 02 April, 2021, 11:03:36 am »
I think you've put the wrong link there!^^

I wonder if Armstrong will ever revise his first book?  "It's All About The Drugs" would be a good title and it would probably sell quite well.
It's no joke - if he writes a Millar-style confessional it will sell millions.
He'll have to publish it fairly soon, while he's still the champion that lost, rather than just another bygone name.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1560 on: 02 April, 2021, 11:07:54 am »
I think that blaming Sky/Brailsford/BC for climate change and the spread of infectious diseases is probably a little unfair ;)

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1561 on: 02 April, 2021, 11:11:11 am »
I think you've put the wrong link there!^^

I wonder if Armstrong will ever revise his first book?  "It's All About The Drugs" would be a good title and it would probably sell quite well.
It's no joke - if he writes a Millar-style confessional it will sell millions.
He'll have to publish it fairly soon, while he's still the champion that lost, rather than just another bygone name.

Fixed it!! Different conversation thanks

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1562 on: 02 April, 2021, 11:12:00 am »
I think that blaming Sky/Brailsford/BC for climate change and the spread of infectious diseases is probably a little unfair ;)

:) seems reasonable to me, but changes the link to something less stretched!



Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1565 on: 19 October, 2021, 11:28:46 pm »
Wonder if they do covid testing, too?!

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1566 on: 20 October, 2021, 10:19:52 am »
The gift that keeps on giving

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2021-10/wada-issues-report-from-investigation-into-allegations-regarding-british-cycling?amp&__twitter_impression=true

I'm not sure how to take this report, as it gives no information on the reasons for the non-standard samples and analysis, or what the results were. Presumably those athletes were also properly tested under the WADA/UKAD protocols, but unless a connection is made between an allegation or evidence of doping and these unauthorised tests, what does this actually mean?

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1567 on: 20 October, 2021, 10:23:52 am »
From my reading the main problem is BC and UKAD acting outside of the system of rules with regards to how testing is conducted. And, in addition, the report appears to be suggesting that there were indications of suspicious results which UKAD did not pursue.

This is where I found the report. Inrng is normally very circumspect about doping issues and not prone to drama:
https://twitter.com/inrng/status/1450568646233923587

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1568 on: 20 October, 2021, 10:38:46 am »
I don't think I'm much wiser after reading that Twitter thread. 'Confirmed potential wrongdoing' is a very woolly phrase. Was there wrondoing or not? Was the wrongdoing (if there was any) simply the use of non-certified labs, or was there something more dodgy going on? Are we to take the inference that BC/UKAD were actively conspiring in avoiding legitimate testing in order to protect themselves or particular riders, or was this an attempt to pre-emptively discover if any BC riders were using clembuterol before it was discovered in the WADA programme? Or was it simply a procedural fuck-up that actually had no ulterior motive - and hence the 'potential' wrongdoing?

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1569 on: 20 October, 2021, 11:38:12 pm »
Well, why were they using non-certified labs in the first place? And what individuals made that decision?
Which athlete's samples were sent to the non-certified labs?

It opens up way more questions than it answers and just makes BC/UKAD look even more dodgy.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1570 on: 20 October, 2021, 11:44:17 pm »
Non-certified labs?  Is running UKAD something Dido Queen of Carnage does in her copious free time?
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Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1571 on: 21 October, 2021, 09:07:58 am »
"An operation into investigating contaminated supplements" sounds suspiciously like working out exactly what level of microdosing gets picked up by the (unofficial) testing.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1572 on: 21 October, 2021, 09:26:08 am »
Were these the same labs that did PCR tests?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1573 on: 22 October, 2021, 12:11:55 am »
"An operation into investigating contaminated supplements" sounds suspiciously like working out exactly what level of microdosing gets picked up by the (unofficial) testing.

Yep

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #1574 on: 22 October, 2021, 07:34:27 pm »
@ Larrers and Cudzo,  reply #1565 refers!