ACME Socially Distanced Group Permanent on Saturday 1st August 2020

[Tomsk]

Ok, here's the situation: Despite rumours, counter rumours and Fake (Good) News, only 6 places per permanent event per day are currently available, regardless of start time, place or whether ridden in reverse. I hope that things may improve soon, depending how the early weeks of Audax Resurection goes.

As of now, there are 6 riders for Boudicca's Revenge 200km and 5 for the 100km on 1st August. I'm leaving myself out of the equation and will ride whichever doesn't end up with a full quota on the day. Or ride another permanent. Additionally, some I'm sure will ride round without a brevet - naughty but understandable. Start time is your choice of course, but can I suggest 07:00 for 200km and 10:00 for the 100km? If I ride the 100 with Big Saxon and The Straggler, we'll surely have a jolly good full-value day out. That way me might all meet up at the Angel and Harp late afternoon/early evening.

If anyone else wants to do a different official 200km brevet on 1st then let me know your intentions and we'll ride that. I've ridden all of mine, with variations and explorations since lockdown, with the exception of Horses for Courses, since I did a helpers' ride the week before the calendar Horsepower back in March - that'd be my default option, but I have no really strong preference if anyone would like another route. One of my 100km calendar routes, the Richard Ellis Memorial, up to the Maglia Rosso Cafe in Hawstead, (which I gather is now open) would make the basis of a nice simple out-and-back DIY if anyone else is interested. Actually, come to think of it the Woodman 100km route might work too - Mid-Essex at harvest-time, lovely!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

So the AUK Secretary specifically saying a few days ago that riding a route in different directions is not the same route is bullshit.

[Manotea]

I've been mulling over what the rules are how and how they might apply to DIYs where all sorts of interpretations might be applied. It may be that Tomsk has been in touch with AUK officials directly or it might be his interpretation. Regardless, seems to me that whilst AUKSEC has been doing his best to respond to queries and make sense of what he's been told, the correct thing to do is not post here or on the auk forum but to have the T&C's for events as we come out of COVID lockdown clearly documented on the AUK website. This is by far the most widely accessible official communications channel, and the responsibility for preparing and publishing that guidence lies with the events and perms secretaries in conjunction with the Board as a whole.

How this helps.

[grams]

So the AUK Secretary specifically saying a few days ago that riding a route in different directions is not the same route is bullshit.

He said it wouldn't, hypothetically, breach social distancing rules, not that it would be allowed.

I think the AUK board are keen not to have mass group perms pre-empt the return of calendar events, which is their prerogative, and limiting every perm to a small number of riders is a reasonable way of achieving that.

I am disappointed that low key calendar events still seem to be a long way off.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Previously posted by me on the AUK forum:
AUK could be overly prescriptive and say "No more than six riders for a DIY".
AUK could try to consider and specifically allow or prohibit every possible permutation (a failing strategy).
AUK could do like the Australians and European randonneurs and limit group sizes on the road and at stops in line with national requirements (social distancing, face coverings inside, etc.). Reported infractions risk DQ.

The last approach is exactly the same approach used for AUK"s activities in normal times, just appropriately adapted to fit the current circumstances.
=====

Unfortunately the AUK Board has gone back to the first option (I should have written perm instead of just the DIY subset) after a period of going with the second option. The third option is better than both.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

So the AUK Secretary specifically saying a few days ago that riding a route in different directions is not the same route is bullshit.

He said it wouldn't, hypothetically, breach social distancing rules, not that it would be allowed.

I think the AUK board are keen not to have mass group perms pre-empt the return of calendar events, which is their prerogative, and limiting every perm to a small number of riders is a reasonable way of achieving that.

I am disappointed that low key calendar events still seem to be a long way off.

I was specifically asking whether, in AUK's view, having two groups going the opposite way round a route each had a separate six-rider limit or collectively had a six-rider limit. The answer then was they were riding different routes, were separate and so did not exceed the six-rider limit. Now, collectively, they do. Pretty simple to understand.

[Manotea]

Another possibly better approach is have groups of six riding together with a captain, uaf style, and use time fencing to keep riders apart. Have captains communicate by Whatsapp. (That avoids the overlap problem with bidirectional riders, etc ). WTAWTAW.

[Tomsk]

I've been in touch with the Permanents Secretary for chapter and verse. I'm ok with the 6 rider limit, you've got to start somewhere, but I hope if things go well the limits may soon be lifted to allow more riders or at least different directions, times, start locations etc. All quite hard to co-ordinate though. The pressure on the 1st August situation is just a one-off and I think 12 riders per weekend on any one of my five available perms is unlikely.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Another possibly better approach is have groups of six riding together with a captain, uaf style, and use time fencing to keep riders apart. Have captains communicate by Whatsapp. (That avoids the overlap problem with bidirectional riders, etc ). WTAWTAW.

Herding cats leaps to mind, for typical AUKs at least.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It seems to be a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

If a group overtakes another group on the road, how is that a problem? That situation happens out on the roads now on sunny weekends. Riders risk DQ if groups get over-large, so I do not think that any AUKs would do that without somebody reminding them.

If a group splits during the event (puncture, tired legs, climbing, etc.), how is that a problem? The two smaller groups continue on and coalesce later, or not.

Separation might be aided by staggered starts. The organiser might ask faster folk to self-seed and start earlier with slower riders starting later to avoid groups overlapping at stops.

[Manotea]

It's a problem because the guidence is to restrict groups to six, so mixing groups breaks that. Time fencing provides a simple protocol to keep groups apart. The alternative is unmanageable and so we end up where we are, amax of six riders taking part in a ride. (And refTomsk' comments, your approach works for you/your situation, but different considerations apply for group DIYs)

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Where was I saying that groups combine? Groups may pass each other on the road, not coalesce. Groups may split and the splits heal (or not) later on.

I’ve ridden lots of Arrows, lots of UAF brevets and quite a few group perms, so I understand the differences and similarities. The arrow is a reasonable analogue to what is needed here. Each group (Arrow team of up to six riders, if you prefer) can ride together or separate as they wish but can not combine or mix with other groups.

[grams]

I'm sure the board will come up with a whole set of rules for how groups are organised and how they're allowed to interact whenever calendar events resume.

Until that next step, which isn't what's happening on August 1st, separation is being ensured by everyone riding a different route and/or a different day.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Starting on 1st August, the Board is allowing a few perms, DIY or otherwise, but in a heavily restricted format. Nothing beyond 200km despite the DIY by GPS option offering a Covid-compliant paperless system at all distances right now.

In future the Board will continue to [redacted]

[Ajax Bay]

I've been mulling [things] over . . .
the correct thing to do is not post here or on the auk forum but to have the T&C's for events as we come out of COVID lockdown clearly documented on the AUK website. . . .
responsibility for preparing and publishing that guidence lies with the events and perms secretaries in conjunction with the Board as a whole.

I agree that it would be great to have clear and reasonable guidance for events as the different categories of event are sanctioned. But there isn't. Has a timeframe been suggested for Ian and John to produce the guidance you say is their "responsibility"? This seems onerous and I hope they will be reaching out for help - #hands-up.
I tried to see whether the minutes record what decision/direction the Borad took/gave but only Jan/Feb/Mar minutes of the AUK Board seem to have been published. Might the more recent minutes help?  https://audax.uk/about-us/minutes/
Why are you seeking to deter 'posting on here' and even more so, why do you suggest that posting/asking questions on the AUK Forum is not "the correct thing to do"?

[Manotea]

I'm not looking to deter posting here, I'm pointing out that the most widely accessible platform for disseminating this info is the auk website.

And whilst its not my intention to join others in giving the board a hard time, they've had months to consider these matters...

[drossall]

By the way, did I miss the bit where someone explained why it's called Boudicca's Revenge? As I understand it, her campaign ranged from Colchester through London to St Albans, but is there a closer connection?

[Tomsk]

By the way, did I miss the bit where someone explained why it's called Boudicca's Revenge? As I understand it, her campaign ranged from Colchester through London to St Albans, but is there a closer connection?

Well, I've long though of Royston Lane (from Cambs up to the Essex border) as Boudicca's Revenge - it's on the Icknield Way, which connects the Iceni capital at Thetford to Salisbury Plain, via the Ridgeway along the Chilterns. It must be the steepest hill in Cambridgeshire - I reckon more than 10% but not enough for an OS 1-in-7 arrow. It was cruel to have that tough little climb on the penultimate stage of the LEL 2013 route - there's a photo of some riders walking it in the subsequent Arrivee! On the 200km route the sharp-eyed might also spot Boadicea Way in Chatteris.

Some of the other bits of both 100 and 200km routes use Roman roads. No doubt Ancient Brit war chariots trundled about on them too.

[drossall]

Good enough for me. I'll tell you afterwards whether she took it out on me personally

[Tomsk]

Anyone for a different 200km on 1st?

Btw, I've checked out water supply options for anyone needing a quick top-up in Dunmow: no outside tap at the Pavilion/public loos opposite me unfortunately. The Churchyard mains tap is just behind the tower (north side) as you approach from Churchend, adjacent to the vestry. On 'Boudicca' in summer I always seem to need a top-up at Littlebury, where there is a mains tap at the church too. In winter, with less good endurance I often huddle in the porch and eat my bonk rations for the last 25km of the ride.

[rob]

Think I’m going to need to restart my Audax career on the 3rd.  That weekend has got a bit hectic.

I’ll pick up a selection of cards from you possibly tomorrow night.

[Lightning Phil]

Thanks Tom

I’ll look more closely at the route over this weekend.  I suspect I’ll do water top up at Church , Dunmow then that should see me through rest of the night and aim for breakfast in Chatteris.

[Tomsk]

Checked out the Angel and Harp situation, in case any want to head there afterwards on 1st August. Booking needed for eating inside (as normal then), but outside is ok without - simple one-way queueing system for the bar, though apparently you can order through an app and nowhere near as busy as usual for a balmy Friday evening. No contact details taken ...

I don't think hordes of cyclists descending would go down well though, it all seemed very restrained.

[Lightning Phil]

I've been in touch with the Permanents Secretary for chapter and verse. I'm ok with the 6 rider limit, you've got to start somewhere, but I hope if things go well the limits may soon be lifted to allow more riders or at least different directions, times, start locations etc. All quite hard to co-ordinate though. The pressure on the 1st August situation is just a one-off and I think 12 riders per weekend on any one of my five available perms is unlikely.

I made the Stevenage Start of Summertime 200 a perm during lockdown. It’s available as both traditional POP and by GPS validation. Controls in Saffron, Thaxted, and Buntingford for Essex based riders. Start anywhere round route.

https://audax.uk/event-details?eventId=8692

[Flatlander]

I've been in touch with the Permanents Secretary for chapter and verse. I'm ok with the 6 rider limit, you've got to start somewhere, but I hope if things go well the limits may soon be lifted to allow more riders or at least different directions, times, start locations etc. All quite hard to co-ordinate though. The pressure on the 1st August situation is just a one-off and I think 12 riders per weekend on any one of my five available perms is unlikely.

I made the Stevenage Start of Summertime 200 a perm during lockdown. It’s available as both traditional POP and by GPS validation. Controls in Saffron, Thaxted, and Buntingford for Essex based riders. Start anywhere round route.

https://audax.uk/event-details?eventId=8692

Very tempting for the first official AUK weekend avoiding crowded Essex (nearly) - I haven't actually missed a personal RRTY monthly through the lockdown. My normal Audax technique sadly met the government rules - incapable of riding with anyone  - Ok sometimes with two or three but not last few months, and I don't stop at any controls when riding on my own (or DIYing) for 200's or 300 in June. So no interaction away from home unlike government advisors on their long distance car travels.

Phil, your route looks about 1.3 Km short. I would start and end at Saffron so plenty of distance from home  but I don't think reaching the course counts for a perm unless it can be ECE'd. It would probably be on distance if I went one roundabout further in stevenage to Six Hills Way/ Gunnels Wood Rd. That used to be on my work commute. I don't ned to do the Station. I would probably stay on road through Stevenage except Gunnel Wood Rd as well as it's hard to meet distance rules on shared cycle ways (If I still care).

I assume it is it Ok to have 6 rides on one perm and riders on another perm that cross paths because it would take bad planning or the groups to meet up.