Decommissioning the telly

[bobb]

I think the wording change might be because nowadays you can watch TV - and so require a licence - without having a TV.

Indeed. You should have a TV Licence if you watch a programme on the Internet on your computer at the time it is broadcast.

I know we've done this about amillion times, but isn't it more about your potential to watch live TV? If you have an internet connection, you can watch the "Watch live" stuff on iPlayer. Just becuase you choose not to and only watch stuff after broadcast, surely doesn't mean you're exempt? Otherwise it's just like the old days when people with a telly would say "But I only watch ITV"...

[teethgrinder]

If you try to watch live TV on-line, then something comes up on the screen asking if you have a lisence. I had this once, (I never knew it was live until then) so I clicked the "No."
I wasn't given the option of declining to watch the programme, I was directed to the TV lisencing, so I went back a few pages instead and did something else.
If I was dishonest, then maybe they can find out that I was dishonest. I don't know or care because I'm honest. It does suggest that you don't need a TV lisence if you are on the net and that is also how I interpret the rules.

[ian]

I watch about zero TV, but I have one (two!) and I think the BBC is generally a good thing, so I pony up the cash for a licence. I reckon that if you benefit from the BBC you should pay up rather than argue 'I only watch <>' or whatever.

I think only in Britain do we let ourselves be hassled by a few letters, let's strangers into our house to inspect for tvs, and believe in high-tech 'detector' vans electromagnetically peeking through the curtains. If it was the US we'd shoot them on our garden paths and crush them under the mighty weight of class action suits. If it was Italy, we'd just assume they'd arrived in costume for our bunga-bunga party. Etc.

I told the story in another thread on this, but back when I was a student in Liverpool I lived in Kensington (not to be confused with its more upmarket London brethren). Anyway, one day a detector van came around to do the usual hassling. By the time I got home it was upside down and surrounded by local kids. They weren't hassled. Take that as a lesson and either pay up if you should, or just bin the letters if you shouldn't.

[jsabine]

When we didn't have a TV, I really wanted a licensing inspector to call (as threatened by innumerable letters) while we were actually in the house.

I'd have taken a distinct pleasure in being very very polite, not letting them across the threshold, and not telling them whether or not we had a TV: I was fairly confident that that wouldn't meet the standard needed to allow them to come back with a warrant.

I know that's a little bit sad, but I really dislike the idea of being assumed to need a TV licence unless you go on a register of weirdos who don't have a telly. Like Helly says above, I don't pay Road Fund Licence^[1], and that's the end of it: I don't get hassled by DVLA to go on a register of non-car-owners.



[1] Yes, I know that hasn't existed since nineteen-canteen and that it's VED. But VED doesn't have the word licence in it.

[pcolbeck]

I think the wording change might be because nowadays you can watch TV - and so require a licence - without having a TV.

Indeed. You should have a TV Licence if you watch a programme on the Internet on your computer at the time it is broadcast.

I know we've done this about amillion times, but isn't it more about your potential to watch live TV? If you have an internet connection, you can watch the "Watch live" stuff on iPlayer. Just becuase you choose not to and only watch stuff after broadcast, surely doesn't mean you're exempt? Otherwise it's just like the old days when people with a telly would say "But I only watch ITV"...

No only for watching on line simultaneous top over the air broadcast. If you try it with iPlayer you will only get the "do you have a licence" popup for live streaming not for programs that were broadcast say yesterday.
If it was about the potential to watch live over the Internet then possession of a smart-phone or tablet would require a TV license.

[bobb]

If you try it with iPlayer you will only get the "do you have a licence" popup for live streaming

Oh ok, I've not seen that. What's stopping you clicking "yes" anyway? Or do you have to fill in your address or someting?

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

If you try it with iPlayer you will only get the "do you have a licence" popup for live streaming

Oh ok, I've not seen that. What's stopping you clicking "yes" anyway? Or do you have to fill in your address or someting?

I have not seen that either.  In France I can't watch iplayer (altho' some people get round this by using a proxy server based in the UK). I guess you could use a proxy server in the UK if you wanted to disguise yourself similarly.

[hubner]

If you don't have a TV or watch live TV, ignore any letters you get from TV Licensing (use them for scrap paper), don't contact them. They are a private company, there is no obligation to tell them you don't need a licence.

When you think about it, a TV licence is unenforceable. They way they get people to pay is relying on people doing the right thing and sending threatening letters via a database. They have no legal powers, you can refuse them entry if they actually call round.

Just about the only way they can catch anyone is if the "Enforcement Officiers" knock on a door and someone opens the door and they can see or hear TV is on with a live broadcast. As for the supposed TV detector van/equipment, apparently it's inadmissable in court because the BBC refuse to reveal how they work. Or they don't exist.

[pcolbeck]

If you try it with iPlayer you will only get the "do you have a licence" popup for live streaming

Oh ok, I've not seen that. What's stopping you clicking "yes" anyway? Or do you have to fill in your address or someting?

No, click "yes" and iPlayer starts playing. Thats it. Its an honour system.

[Charlotte]

I strongly suspect that the major ISPs will dob you in to the TVL people if you're streaming live TV without a licence and I'd not be surprised to hear that a kickback system was in place to make this worth their while.

[urban_biker]

I strongly suspect that the major ISPs will dob you in to the TVL people if you're streaming live TV without a licence and I'd not be surprised to hear that a kickback system was in place to make this worth their while.

I doubt they'd have the tooling in place to make it work and I doubt the BBC would make it worth their while. But its easily technically possible.

[hubner]

I strongly suspect that the major ISPs will dob you in to the TVL people if you're streaming live TV without a licence and I'd not be surprised to hear that a kickback system was in place to make this worth their while.

Nearly every BBC programe's going to be available to watch or listen online for at least 7 days anyway, except for it seems old B&W films shown at 6am on Saturdays and Sundays. So there's not much difference for the viewer, if they get a warning letter they'll just watch it after it's been broadcast.

In fact it seems that's the future of TV; ie watch on demand. The BBC are going to extend the 7 days limit and they're going to put old 'classic' programmes online permanently.

[pcolbeck]

I strongly suspect that the major ISPs will dob you in to the TVL people if you're streaming live TV without a licence and I'd not be surprised to hear that a kickback system was in place to make this worth their while.

That's proper paranoid that is. I know people who work for ISPs that install and configure their networks and they don't do that kind of thing.

[Kim]

I can't bring myself to get worked up about this 'harassment'.
Letter arrives, addressed to 'Lady fboab', I snigger, into the bin it goes.

?

That's my approach.  Well, not the "Lady fboab" bit, though I might try that next time.

[teethgrinder]

I watch about zero TV, but I have one (two!) and I think the BBC is generally a good thing, so I pony up the cash for a licence. I reckon that if you benefit from the BBC you should pay up rather than argue 'I only watch <>' or whatever.

Do you extend that to BBC radio and online BBC news and weather?

I agree in principal. Though it's not me who decides the rules, I just follow them. I'm willing to forgo my principals if it saves me £130 a year, or whatever it is nowadays.
If I was going to fork out for a lisence, then I'd fork out for a TV too rather than watch i-player on a poxy computer.

[Charlotte]

I strongly suspect that the major ISPs will dob you in to the TVL people if you're streaming live TV without a licence and I'd not be surprised to hear that a kickback system was in place to make this worth their while.

That's proper paranoid that is. I know people who work for ISPs that install and configure their networks and they don't do that kind of thing.

Yeah and if I'd have said a couple of months ago that the NSA have been working to engineer vulnerabilities into critical internet technologies, you'd have called me a conspiracy nut 

[pcolbeck]

I strongly suspect that the major ISPs will dob you in to the TVL people if you're streaming live TV without a licence and I'd not be surprised to hear that a kickback system was in place to make this worth their while.

That's proper paranoid that is. I know people who work for ISPs that install and configure their networks and they don't do that kind of thing.

Yeah and if I'd have said a couple of months ago that the NSA have been working to engineer vulnerabilities into critical internet technologies, you'd have called me a conspiracy nut 

Oh no I would have believed that. They tried to do it years ago with DES claiming it was unbreakable and pushing for it to be kept as a standard when it was borked already, same with the clipper chip for phone encryption. 

[jsabine]

I strongly suspect that the major ISPs will dob you in to the TVL people if you're streaming live TV without a licence and I'd not be surprised to hear that a kickback system was in place to make this worth their while.

That's proper paranoid that is. I know people who work for ISPs that install and configure their networks and they don't do that kind of thing.

Yeah and if I'd have said a couple of months ago that the NSA have been working to engineer vulnerabilities into critical internet technologies, you'd have called me a conspiracy nut 

There's a fine line between maintaining a healthy mistrust of officialdom and veering into becoming a paranoid conspiracy nutjob, but TV Licensing's run by Crapita. There's no excuse for the delusions of competence that this system would require.

[L CC]

I can't bring myself to get worked up about this 'harassment'.
Letter arrives, addressed to 'Lady fboab', I snigger, into the bin it goes.

?

That's my approach.  Well, not the "Lady fboab" bit, though I might try that next time.

You could try "Sister Kim". That would work even better, I reckon.

[Wombat]

I strongly suspect that the major ISPs will dob you in to the TVL people if you're streaming live TV without a licence and I'd not be surprised to hear that a kickback system was in place to make this worth their while.

That's proper paranoid that is. I know people who work for ISPs that install and configure their networks and they don't do that kind of thing.

Yeah and if I'd have said a couple of months ago that the NSA have been working to engineer vulnerabilities into critical internet technologies, you'd have called me a conspiracy nut 

There's a fine line between maintaining a healthy mistrust of officialdom and veering into becoming a paranoid conspiracy nutjob, but TV Licensing's run by Crapita. There's no excuse for the delusions of competence that this system would require.

I hadn't realised that incompetent bunch of muppets ran it.  that explains all...  The company that threw away £3.5m funding that I got, in my last employment.  It takes skill to actually refuse someone trying to give you £3.5m, but they managed it...  How do you "improve" on local authority staff incompetence?  You get the same staff to work for a shit company like Crapita, and lower their terms and conditions, and tell them they aren't actually supposed to achieve anything other than rip off their former employers, and voila, an upgrade to "incompetence V2.0".

[ian]

I watch about zero TV, but I have one (two!) and I think the BBC is generally a good thing, so I pony up the cash for a licence. I reckon that if you benefit from the BBC you should pay up rather than argue 'I only watch <>' or whatever.

Do you extend that to BBC radio and online BBC news and weather?

I do. I think if you're listening to the BBC regularly then you should be willing to pay for it. OK, fair enough if you occasionally check the weather – it's mostly wrong anyway.

It amuses me that people stomp their feet about tax avoiders, MPs expenses etc, but then you often see the same excuseology in play for things like this. Well, I only watch it online, people strenuously declare. Come on, if you're getting the benefit, pay up.

[hubner]

I watch about zero TV, but I have one (two!) and I think the BBC is generally a good thing, so I pony up the cash for a licence. I reckon that if you benefit from the BBC you should pay up rather than argue 'I only watch <>' or whatever.

Do you extend that to BBC radio and online BBC news and weather?

I do. I think if you're listening to the BBC regularly then you should be willing to pay for it. OK, fair enough if you occasionally check the weather – it's mostly wrong anyway.

It amuses me that people stomp their feet about tax avoiders, MPs expenses etc, but then you often see the same excuseology in play for things like this. Well, I only watch it online, people strenuously declare. Come on, if you're getting the benefit, pay up.

Err...it's a TV Licence, not a TV and Radio Licence nor is it a BBC Licence (you had to pay for a TV Licence even if you only watched ITV).

The Radio Licence was abolished in 1971, apparently.

[ian]

I watch about zero TV, but I have one (two!) and I think the BBC is generally a good thing, so I pony up the cash for a licence. I reckon that if you benefit from the BBC you should pay up rather than argue 'I only watch <>' or whatever.

Do you extend that to BBC radio and online BBC news and weather?

I do. I think if you're listening to the BBC regularly then you should be willing to pay for it. OK, fair enough if you occasionally check the weather – it's mostly wrong anyway.

It amuses me that people stomp their feet about tax avoiders, MPs expenses etc, but then you often see the same excuseology in play for things like this. Well, I only watch it online, people strenuously declare. Come on, if you're getting the benefit, pay up.

Err...it's a TV Licence, not a TV and Radio Licence nor is it a BBC Licence (you had to pay for a TV Licence even if you only watched ITV).

The Radio Licence was abolished in 1971, apparently.

Cool. Then you get off scot-free if you only have a radiogram (or apparently if you only watch catch-up TV). I'd assumed it was for both. But yeah, my point stands if you're watching broadcast TV then you should pay and if you don't you should bin the letters.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should be paying now.

[Bledlow]

TV Licensing's run by Crapita. There's no excuse for the delusions of competence that this system would require.

I hadn't realised that incompetent bunch of muppets ran it.  that explains all...  The company that threw away £3.5m funding that I got, in my last employment.  It takes skill to actually refuse someone trying to give you £3.5m, but they managed it...  How do you "improve" on local authority staff incompetence?  You get the same staff to work for a shit company like Crapita, and lower their terms and conditions, and tell them they aren't actually supposed to achieve anything other than rip off their former employers, and voila, an upgrade to "incompetence V2.0".

When I worked for Crapita, many years ago, someone came up with a proposal to save the firm lots of money by investing in improved archiving technology. Much cheaper hardware, more reliable, far less costly storage space needed. It would require consent from the customers whose data we were archiving, but he had that covered: pass on some of the savings to them.

The people in charge decided to demand that the customers help pay for the switch - despite it being mostly to save Crapita money. It didn't happen. Money thrown away.

A director (one of the company founders) once turned up in our office in Oxford & got angry that a desk was untidy, so binned the papers on it. Luckily, someone retrieved them before the bins were emptied, so the bloke who was out on a customer site when a load of important paperwork was delivered to his desk didn't have to ask the customer who it was from to send new copies of the paperwork they'd couriered to him that morning. 

I didn't stay long. When I did, my boss asked if I had a new job to go to, & was relieved that I did. He thought the firm was bloody awful. Like many others, he'd been TUPEd into it.

Only place I've ever worked where the customers & staff ganged up against the bosses.

[Wowbagger]

I can remember having a radio licence. I think it cost about 7/6.

Edit: blimey! It was £1 5s when it was abolished. Perhaps 7/6 was a dog licence.

You needed a separate licence if you had a radio in your car.