Calling for experience of Pashley trikes, please.

[mzjo]

My daughter, who lives just outside Paris, has just got her bike back and is looking forward to getting out a bit. Her partner is a very nervous (and unwilling) cyclist with a weak back and we are looking for a suitable machine to offset this. Her mtb is still in my garage!
Daughter had been thinking of a 'bent trike and had found a suitable dealer not too far from them. On discussing this with Coco this week-end she was most concerned at not being sufficiently visible to cars and not being able to see past them. Cue a night's thinking and the best I could come up with was a Pashley style trike. Not quite as good for the back as a bent, but stable and higher up.
It wouldn't have to go far or fast or carry much weight (apart from the rider, who would undoubtedly lose a bit from using it!). Dourdan is a bit steep in places so I was thinking of the 7sp model rather than the Picador. Folding  appears to be an option from the maker's site but I didn't see anything about e-assist. No problem with dealers, a few even close to us, although the Paris ones appear to be in Paris itself which is not so good.

So does anyone have any experience of Pashley trikes, good or bad? What are they like weight wise and for reliability? What are the alternatives of this sort of machine? All comments gratefully received.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Tricycle Association folk are not too impressed by Pashley’s trikes. They are a little under-engineered and trike-specific parts for older models are apparently unavailable, even from Pashley.

It might be worth going on the TA forum and asking the multitude directly. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/on3wheels/

The only folding trike that actually folds well is the Di Blasi but it has several quirks, including limited seat height adjustment.
https://missioncycles.co.uk/product/diblasi-r32/

There are a few e-trikes out there but most are a bit agricultural.
https://missioncycles.co.uk/product/e-mission/

I think a semi-recumbent trike might be a more visible and reasonably stable option.
https://powabyke.com/product/electric-semi-recumbent-trike/

Don’t forget the one-wheel drive trikes in the UK put power into the down-camber wheel to assist in keeping the trike out of the gutter. Taking a 1WD UK trike to France will require more steering input to keep in a straight line.

[mrcharly-YHT]

i owned a pashley trike.

Plus points:
You won't go fast enough to stress the frame.
The basket on the back is good for shopping.

Minus points
They are heavy, soggy to steer and hard work.
Paintwork (used to be) carp and prone to flaking off.

Not sure I'd recommend them for someone with back problems, due to the weight.

[Brucey]

Pashley trikes?

A bit heavy and a bit basic; their market is mainly for (old) folk who want to potter about. Maybe it isn't an altogether  bad match for the intended rider....?

   One thing I would say is that trikes can be very unpleasant to ride on heavy cambers and some French roads are heavily cambered; If you already have a weak back trying to pedal a trike whilst canted to one side because of the road camber is highly unlikely to improve it.

cheers

[Kim]

It probably goes without saying that recumbents, and recumbent tricycles in particular, are the opposite of invisible to motorists.  Not being able to see past cars is an issue when your eyeline's below window height, but one of ability to make progress rather than of safety.  (You have to treat every car as if it were a van.)

Of course it's hard to convince someone of that, other than by giving them enough cumulative experience of cycling in traffic with/on one, which isn't an option if they don't have something to ride.  'Common sense' says that being seen is about optics, rather than psychology.

Perhaps one of the less low down 'bent trikes might be an option?  Deltas like the Hase Kettwiesel might be less stable at speed than tadpoles, but they tend to give a higher riding position, and there's something to be said for the turning circle...


(My limited Pashley trike experience confirms mrcharly-YHT's synopsis.  It's a nice machine for pootling to the shops at approximately walking speed.)

[mzjo]

It probably goes without saying that recumbents, and recumbent tricycles in particular, are the opposite of invisible to motorists.  Not being able to see past cars is an issue when your eyeline's below window height, but one of ability to make progress rather than of safety.  (You have to treat every car as if it were a van.)

Of course it's hard to convince someone of that, other than by giving them enough cumulative experience of cycling in traffic with/on one, which isn't an option if they don't have something to ride.  'Common sense' says that being seen is about optics, rather than psychology.

Perhaps one of the less low down 'bent trikes might be an option?  Deltas like the Hase Kettwiesel might be less stable at speed than tadpoles, but they tend to give a higher riding position, and there's something to be said for the turning circle...


(My limited Pashley trike experience confirms mrcharly-YHT's synopsis.  It's a nice machine for pootling to the shops at approximately walking speed.)

We did try to explain the psychology to Coco but she didn't get it (being overly logical) or perhaps didn't want to get it. Phillipa gets it (but then she would, she's my daughter ). She was also taken with the Kettwiesel, perhaps because it looks like a three-wheeled Dino which is the bent that she knows. If the folding version goes small enough to get through the flat and into the backyard for storage then it could be a solution. It should be born in mind that the objective is to ride where the traffic is not, not where it is so a certain part of this is a mute point.

I am aware of the behavioural changes created by changes in road camber. My other thing is driving unbraked sidecar outfits which are quite assymetric. One lives and learns with it and it's more of a problem when you know how to ride with camber one way and you discover the opposite side than if you are learning from scratch.

I remember Pashley trikes from several decades ago when there were issues with axles braking due to poor design and poor materials, which is partly why I asked the question. Weight, of any sort of option, is of course a worry.

The Mission trikes are interesting but they are a UK operation which doesn't help me. I will have to find out who handles them (or makes them) on the continent to find a dealer. I think I could be trawling some dutch web sites soon.

Thanks for your help everyone. I will probably do an update when a solution has been found.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

There are similar retailers on the Continent.
https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/buying-a-bicycle/tricycle-adults/tricycle/
https://www.damius.com/en/our-company.html

[Cudzoziemiec]

One of my neighbours has an electric assisted upright trike which I think is one of these: https://jorviktricycles.com

And another has a non-electric upright trike which is something else that's not a Pashley, but she doesn't ride it much, and I can't remember what it actually is.

[zigzag]

one kind of trike i'd be keen to have is one of those tilting/leaning ones, but properly engineered and fairly light (say 12kg max). i think it would be a lot of fun ride, especially on twisty descents.

as for pashley trikes - three wheeled bso.

[Regulator]

Don't go with Jorvik Cycles...


...unless you want to be associated with Gyles Brandreth.


https://twitter.com/GylesB1/status/1279730464211775488

[Cudzoziemiec]

Never mind Gyles Brandreth, don't go with Jorvik if the roads are cambered. I've just spoken to my neighbour; she's sold the Jorvik and bought an ICE recumbent. Two reasons, one was the effect of camber coupled with high centre of gravity, the other was the limited battery range of about 30 miles. The ICE she has manages 70. So after thinking she'd never ride a recumbent – it was what her husband initially reckoned she should get but she resisted – she's now much happier on one.

[tatanab]

the effect of camber coupled with high centre of gravity,

Even with the enormous weight of these utility machines (typically 50 lbs plus before you consider electric assist) the centre of gravity is dominated by the rider, unless exceptionally svelte.  So the C of G tends to be somewhere around saddle height.  The rider has to move their weight around a little to aid stability, even at low speeds.  This constant movement or adjusting of position, which is minimal in an experienced rider, might well not suit somebody with back problems (as noted above).  This why I tell people that the only time a trike is truly stable is when it is stationary on a flat surface.

[Kim]

Related, a friend of barakta's seems to do a good line in broken bones due to attempting to ride a racerunner on typical BRITISH pavements, where there's an aggressive camber at every private driveway.  (The alternative, as we're all familiar with, is to get abuse from motorists for using a low-speed vehicle on the road, dodging potholes and fighting cambers as necessary.)

I think she's given up and is now driving to a nearby industrial campus, where she's obtained permission to use their lovely smooth service roads for exercise.

[MikeFromLFE]

Anecdote
Mrs M used to ride a Pashley Picador trike when the children were little and they'd fit on the back.
She managed to turn the whole ensemble over on a badly cambered car park entrance.
No damage to any of the three of them, or the machine, but a lesson learned,.

(The trike is sitting gently rusting at the back of the garage. It's probably usable with three new tyres, and an oil can though.)

[mzjo]

I think I will give Phil a link to this discussion. It might be more use than me trying to pass it on secondhand.

A second thought - how much lower (or higher) than a car driver's seat is a Kettwiesel seat? Thinking about it, it strikes me that the difference must be minimal.

Anyway the advice will be to go to the local bent seller and try a few out.

[Kim]

I'm eye to eye with car^[1] drivers on my Streetmachine with the seat fully reclined.  A Kettwiesel seat's a bit lower than that (it's between the wheels, rather than above them), but it's a more upright riding position.

Manufacturer's spec says the seat height of the SMGT is 63cm, and the Kettwiesel is 48cm.

There's also a variation of the HPVelotechnik Scorpion with a much higher seat (57cm) than is usual for a tadpole trike.  No doubt other manufacturers have got in on that in the few years since I saw one.  I've sat on one, but haven't ridden it, so can't vouch for the handling.

ETA: By comparison an ICE Adventure seat height is 31cm.  You can get a bracket to raise that by 10cm.


_{[1] Normal cars.  Not 4x4s, or those oversized modern things that look like cars until you put them on a road and discover how enormous they are.}