Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: hellymedic on 07 February, 2023, 05:22:06 pm
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"A lady driver behind the coach called me and said there was a flame coming out of the light duster."
From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-64552896 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-64552896)
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Zooming in that looks like a misprint.
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When viewed on my fondleslab, the article does indeed say duster. I suspect it’s a scanning or handwriting to text error.
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Typo, I'd say, but never mind. We needed a kerning thread.
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FTFY
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I see what you did there.
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Kim, you are very clad!
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Kim, you are very bacl!
ftfy ;D
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One thing that does `wind me up' if not quite `make me cringe' is when people use the backtick as if it were a left quote mark. It doesn't kern properly for the simple reason it's not for use in text, it's a special character for programming. It looks even worse where the font doesn't slope the character they use for the right quote, and always makes me stumble and backtrack when reading.
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Shirley it's for adding accents and was appropriated by the programmers who could only count to 0x7F and therefore couldn't do any of that FOREIGN rubbish anyway. And then some other programmers invented character sets and the <compose> key and restored its original purpose. And then someone who may or may not have been a programmer, but was definitely being sloppy used a glyph that was the mirror image of a ''' in a popular operating system, and the rot set in.
But yes. Almost as annoying as when certain software (chiefly Microsoft Word and random Fruity products) decides to substitute the usual quote characters with the chiral ones when you're trying to write computer documentation.
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No kerning thread is complete without Megaflicks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/keming/comments/8zpk7s/megaflicks_or_megafucks/
At primary school, the hymns were written by hand on big sheets of sugar paper. For the first three years, I was singing "Bom of the one light, Eden saw play". I thought they'd spelt Bomb wrongly.
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The way in which, as children*, we unthinkingly accept misread or misheard hymn lyrics that don't make the tiniest bit of sense, is worthy of its own thread. But not this one.
*Perhaps as adults too, but hymn-singing tends to be more of a voluntary activity once you've left school.
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Reading "burned to the ground" and thinking "That should be a double M".
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The notion of Reading being set ablaze bringeth good cheer on a murky morn in E17 ;)
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My life has not been in vain.
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Kerning was originally an old Cornish sport. My Kernow & SW event pays homage to it.
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52689992960_2eb1cf4a30_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oh2Zdu) :sick:
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As mentioned elsewhere (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2205.msg2869017#msg2869017)...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53531118638_fabafa4558_w.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pymYzm)
Kerning disaster (https://flic.kr/p/2pymYzm) by citoyen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/103760266@N08/), on Flickr
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I see what you mean.
The whole right section needs to move left, the final "s" is over the margin. Horribly asymmetrical.
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Almost as annoying as when certain software (chiefly Microsoft Word and random Fruity products) decides to substitute the usual quote characters with the chiral ones when you're trying to write computer documentation.
Annoying doesn't come close, bloody infuriating begins to get nearer but even that doesn't quite cover it. Every time I get a new work machine I spend hours switching off all the oh so very, very helpful, "Let me do what I think you want to do rather than letting you actually do what you want to do." bollocks.
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I've just read the entire thread and I'll just say that it doesn't mean a thing to me.
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I've just read the entire thread and I'll just say that it doesn't mean a thing to me.
You could just google 'kerning'.
Fonts (yes, yes..) come in 2 general classes: Monospaced, and Proportional.
Monospaced means every character takes up the same width on the page. Like a typewriter. So I and W both occupy the same width. This has advantages, and dis-advantages. It makes tables line up nicely.
And this is one of the reasons for serifs on fonts; the little horizontal wings on the top and bottom of the 'I' glyph: to make them seem a little less out-of-place in monospaced text.
Proportional fonts vary the width of the glyphs. So I is narrower than W.
Now, kerning is how you adjust the space (and sometimes overlap) between individual glyphs. It's a visual thing. Mostly, it goes un-noticed, because typographers have done the work to make it so. But sometimes, it's done badly and is visually jarring.
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Properly laying out type is an art we've mostly given up on the Web where everything is rendered automatically [ugly].
It makes me a bit sad to know there are now entire generations who haven't seen a proper, exquisitely printed page, and most of the people who did that are either retired or dead.
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https://datasheets.kyocera-avx.com/AVX-SCC.pdf (https://datasheets.kyocera-avx.com/AVX-SCC.pdf)
The spacing of the thread size of "M16" made me think that the studs on the capacitor were M6, which I thought was a suitably chunky size, and I bought eyelets with 6mm holes.
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This kerning krime should be easy to spot [click image to magnify my embarrassment]:
(https://iili.io/JEawB6l.jpg)
Light Reading (http://prettygoodbritain.com/bokeh/light/lightreading.html) was a 'zine I produced in the 90s from my home at the time, Jersey City, NJ. It was self-published in the most literal sense: I did everything but man the printing press. I was, believe it or not
(https://iili.io/JEaecF4.jpg)
Not
a professional typesetter at the time. In my defence, I was too busy writing to pay much attention to such mundane details as THE MASTHEAD. That it never got past Vol. 1, Issue 1, probably didn't have anything to do with kerning.
(https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/acf/pics/picasruler.jpg)
Brought the tools of the trade (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=91.msg10324#msg10324) with me across the pond.
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This kerning krime should be easy to spot [click image to magnify my embarrassment]
I hate to break this you but the masthead is one of the least offensive things about that whole page.
I was, believe it or not
Not
a professional typesetter at the time.
Ok, you’re forgiven. :)
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I see what you mean.
The whole right section needs to move left, the final "s" is over the margin. Horribly asymmetrical.
Is it an optical illusion, or has the final "s" dropped below the line slightly as well?
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I hate to break this you...
The critic has to educate the public; the artist has to educate the critic.
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@Feanor - the first thing I did was to google "kerning". That wasn't sufficient for me to understand what people were talking about. There were some jokes, which I didn't get, and a criticism of the Sadler's Wells building, which I couldn't comprehend. Looked all right to me...
So far as the original post was concerned, about a bus on fire, I had no idea what that was about.
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@Feanor - the first thing I did was to google "kerning". That wasn't sufficient for me to understand what people were talking about. There were some jokes, which I didn't get, and a criticism of the Sadler's Wells building, which I couldn't comprehend. Looked all right to me...
So far as the original post was concerned, about a bus on fire, I had no idea what that was about.
The bus on fire thing referred to flames coming out of a light duster, spelt "D U S T E R" Cars and buses don't have light dusters. The bunch of lights on a car or bus is referred to as a light cluster. "C L U S T E R". With bad kerning the lower case "c" and "l" of cluster get run together and look more like a "d", hence light duster. However, in that particular case it was more likely to be a transcription or typographical error, as Beardy points out further down the thread.
"kerning error" can be referred to a "keming error" in a self referential bout of hilarity.
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Ok. I didn't know such a thing was a "light cluster". I don't recall hearing that expression before. Merçi bien!
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Mostly, it goes un-noticed, because typographers have done the work to make it so.
Exactly this.
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I see what you mean.
The whole right section needs to move left, the final "s" is over the margin. Horribly asymmetrical.
Is it an optical illusion, or has the final "s" dropped below the line slightly as well?
I don't think it's an illusion, it's just poor workmanship.
Individual letters on brickwork is a) harder to get right laterally (because the "ideal" fixing may line up/intersect a vertical joint) and b) really obvious when it doesn't align with the coursing.
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I thought it might be a feature of the typeface. Look at the a and the d - the bowl appears to sit slightly below the bottom of the stem. In Wells, the e and s appear to sit slightly below the baseline of the W and ll.
Hard to tell, really. Not possible to get up close enough for a proper inspection!
Kerning is shit either way.
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I thought it might be a feature of the typeface. Look at the a and the d - the bowl appears to sit slightly below the bottom of the stem. In Wells, the e and s appear to sit slightly below the baseline of the W and ll.
Hard to tell, really. Not possible to get up close enough for a proper inspection!
Kerning is shit either way.
I'm no expert, but it's normal for the rounded bits (bowls?) to sit lower on the baseline or even overshoot it, otherwise they don't look like they're level. Example here (https://designmodo.com/letterform/) about halfway down, the word "Sphinx". But the important thing is that larger font sizes have a smaller overshoot as a percentage of the size.
Maybe the designer chose to enlarge a small font size deliberately based on the typical viewing distance, obviously they are designed for printing and viewing at normal reading distance. Or maybe they didn't give it much thought at all. Hard to know without looking at it directly rather than at a photo.
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Nor am I any kind expert but I’m aware it’s not an unusual feature. I was just wondering if that is the reason for the final s in Sadler’s appearing to sit below the baseline as Tim H suggests. As you say, it’s hard to tell from the picture.
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FTAOD I was agreeing with you
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Look at the image of the main entrance here:
https://www.uniquevenuesoflondon.co.uk/venue/sadlers-wells
The lettering on the glass, mixed case and a different font, shows a similar kerning issue:
https://www.uniquevenuesoflondon.co.uk/sites/default/files/cover/Sadler%27s%20Wells%20external.jpg
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FTAOD I was agreeing with you
:thumbsup:
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Look at the image of the main entrance here:
https://www.uniquevenuesoflondon.co.uk/venue/sadlers-wells
The lettering on the glass, mixed case and a different font, shows a similar kerning issue:
https://www.uniquevenuesoflondon.co.uk/sites/default/files/cover/Sadler%27s%20Wells%20external.jpg
Even stranger that they've used a different but similar typeface on the building.
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https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/feb/29/clothoff-deepfake-ai-pornography-app-names-linked-revealed
The Spanish incident flared into global news last year and made Almendralejo, a small town of faded renaissance-era churches and plazas near the Portuguese border, the site of the latest in a series of warning shots from an imminent future where AI tools allow anyone to generate hyper-realistic images with a few clicks.
From the above article. Topically, I misread the final word in that paragraph.