The cricket...

[andyoxon]

Jos Buttler's not that bad.  Better dismissals/ test matches played ratio, than Alan Knott   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_Test_wicket-keepers

[Von Broad]

Just nattering to my son about the match. His comment:

And just imagine, if buttler wasn't such a crap wicket keeper they wouldn't have had to do it

If proper wicket keepers were picked, we might not have this problem. Although I'm not sure such a thing exists anymore. The last genuine wicket keeper to play for England was probably Jack Russell...

I think [from memory] a similar dynamic came into play with Jack Russel/Alex Stewart. Russell, a superior wicket keeper, but an inferior batsman to Stewart was often left out to make way for another batsman or bowler and Stewart took the gloves - which he did with a good degree of success. There can't be many opening batsman/wicket keepers in the game to play at such a high level.

Not tom stray from the point though....a few mistakes behind the stumps can cost a team dearly, so you pick a weak keeper at your peril.

[Wowbagger]

IIRC Faroukh Engineer used to open the batting and keep wicket for India in the 1960s.

Jos Buttler's not that bad.  Better dismissals/ test matches played ratio, than Alan Knott   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_Test_wicket-keepers

I think a lot of that may have been to do with the bowlers he kept to. Knott kept to quick bowlers and Derek Underwood pretty much exclusively for both Kent and England. Underwood was a "one off" - not really a slow bowler in the traditional sense but made the ball do a lot. Years ago I remember reading an interview with Knott and he was asked about Underwood and keeping to him. "You really have to concentrate as he's so accurate that the batsman has to play everything and I can go for long spells in which the ball never comes through to me. On the rare occasion that it does, I have to be ready for it." I think there was some statistic quoted in which during a spell in which Underwood bowled a whole load of overs, not a single delivery went through to Knott. He wouldn't have got many stumping chances under those circumstances.

[Salvatore]

But Stewart's average was significantly lower when playing as a wicketkeeper than when playing as a specialist batsman. And that's the danger - you take a good batsman and end up with an off-form batsman and second-class keeper. There are plenty of examples. The degree of concentration required to keep wicket for an innings of a test match must on its own be exhausting even before you consider the physical demands. And then you're expected to bat for hours on end.

A batting+bowling all-rounder seems to be able to get away with being potentially good at one or the other, but only needing to be good in one in a particular match. But a batsman-wicketkeeper is expected to be good at both. Or perhaps I'm talking bollocks.

Anyway, personally I'm just glad that cricket is being played and there are test matches to follow, and that there's a chance I might come across a village match when out on my bike at the weekend.

[Wowbagger]

The point is that a batsman-bowler gets quiet spells between overs where he can field at fine leg or third man and have a mental and physical rest. The equivalent would be to have two wicketkeepers, one at one end and one at the other.

[Mr Larrington]

The point is that a batsman-bowler gets quiet spells between overs where he can field at fine leg or third man and have a mental and physical rest. The equivalent would be to have two wicketkeepers, one at one end and one at the other.

This is one of a Several of reasons why USAnians don’t play cricket.  They'd want to change the entire fielding team at the end of every over and have totally separate squads for pace and spin.  And the break between overs would be exactly four minutes long, and any batsman who got sledged by Glenn McGrath* would be on the phone to his attorney prontissimo, and...

* other loudmouthed denizens of Captain Cook's Mistake are available

[hatler]

Very good.

[trekker12]

Actually in rounders baseball they mostly manage using the same team for batting and catching. The only specialist I'm aware of is the bowler pitcher but it's not a sport I watch very often.

[Peter]

The point is that a batsman-bowler gets quiet spells between overs where he can field at fine leg or third man and have a mental and physical rest. The equivalent would be to have two wicketkeepers, one at one end and one at the other.

This is one of a Several of reasons why USAnians don’t play cricket.  They'd want to change the entire fielding team at the end of every over and have totally separate squads for pace and spin.  And the break between overs would be exactly four minutes long, and any batsman who got sledged by Glenn McGrath* would be on the phone to his attorney prontissimo, and...

* other loudmouthed denizens of Captain Cook's Mistake are available

McGrath was one of the greatest bowlers to this date.  He could dish out the sledging but was frequently bested.  This is probably the greatest retort of all, from Eddo Brandes, the Zimbabwean;-

Brandes gained fame for his noted and oft-quoted exchange with Glenn McGrath. After McGrath became frustrated at being unable to dismiss him, the bowler asked: "Why are you so fat?" to which Brandes replied: "Because every time I shag your wife she gives me a chocolate biscuit."[2]  (from Wiki)

Spoiled only by the word "chocolate", which spoils the timing!

[Salvatore]

Wicketkeepers. Sadly I don't think we'll see anything like this any time soon.

Jack Russel performing a leg-side to dismiss Dean Jones. Nothing too remarkable about that except the bowler was Gladstone Small.

https://youtu.be/jgn4f8xDYI8

[Peter]

John, thanks, that was superb!

[bobb]

Spoiled only by the word "chocolate", which spoils the timing!

I first heard it as "Because every time I fuck your wife, she gives me a biscuit".

Of course, nowhere can decide what it actually was:

Because every time I shag your missus, she gives me a biscuit

Because every time I sleep with your wife she gives me a biscuit

Because every time I make love to your wife, she gives me a biscuit

Because every time I fuck your mother, she throws me a biscuit

The addition of "chocolate" is rare.

I suspect "fuck" is deemed too much by some publications, so is replaced by "shag". I think we can be pretty certain it was never "make love" or "sleep with"!

The real version is still out there such as : Because every time I fuck your wife she gives me a biscuit

I hope you appreciate my research 

[Peter]

yes, bobb, the last one is the one I've always known.  Somehow it has the poetry in rhythm and content!  And it really pissed off McGrath, which is so important!

[bobb]

yes, bobb, the last one is the one I've always known.  Somehow it has the poetry in rhythm and content!  And it really pissed off McGrath, which is so important!

Yes, McGrath took exception to comments about his wife. I believe all batsmen stopped after she died.

But before she did, there was time for one more:

Glenn McGrath: What does Brian Lara's dick taste like?

Ramnaresh Sarwan: Dunno, why don't you ask your wife?

[Peter]

yes, that was a cracker, especially coming as it did from a batsman who was about two feet shorter than McGrath.  Did you watch the duel between them that produced it?  It's on the tube.

[Wowbagger]

yes, bobb, the last one is the one I've always known.  Somehow it has the poetry in rhythm and content!  And it really pissed off McGrath, which is so important!

The hallmark of great sledging by the batsman is the effect upon the fielders, and the Aussies were rolling about laughing for quite some time, which cannot have helped GMc's peace of mind. And I doubt that when Eddo Brandes started what, it has to be said, was a mediocre cricketing career*, he ever envisaged being remembered for all time as the King of the Sledgers.

*A quick look through Wikipedia has revealed that Brandes is the oldest player ever to have taken an ODI hat-trick and the three players concerned had, combined, the highest average score of any hat-trick victims. https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/23020910

[Salvatore]

I don't know who the batsman was, but he was a young English batsman really struggling in his first test against Australia. He could barely lay bat on ball, and if he did manage to make contact, it would just dribble to a fielder. The Aussie close fielders, of which there were many, didn't let up with the sledging, leaving no doubt as to their opinion of his ability. Even mild-mannered Mark Waugh, who normally never sledged, started having a go, saying he wasn't good enough to play for England.. At which point the young batsman turned to him and said "Maybe so, but at least I'm the best player in my family", which caused much hilarity amongst the fielders and embarrassment for Waugh.

Mr google says it was James Ormond

[Peter]

Yes, I remember that.  It has the same ring as Catty Lennon's jibe about Ringo, "He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles".

[Mr Larrington]

Then there was the cry from the grandstand somewhere in .au and aimed at Phil Tufnell:

“Lend us yer brain, Tuffers, I'm building an idiot!”

[Wowbagger]

I recall another test in which Boycott was scoring extremely slowly. Some wag in the crowd shouted "Come in, number 1! Your time is up!" and, very soon thereafter, Boycott was dismissed.

[bobb]

Yes, I remember that.  It has the same ring as Catty Lennon's jibe about Ringo, "He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles".

As with so many tales like this, it's almost certainly not true:

Did John Lennon Say 'Ringo Wasn’t Even the Best Drummer in the Beatles'?

[Wowbagger]

I'm sure I must have mentioned this before somewhere around this august forum, but the earliest piece of sledging I am aware of is from the Essex v Gloucestershire game of 1898. There had been a battle royal between Kortwright, assessed by some as the fastest bowler of all time, and W. G. Grace, by this time of advancing age. Grace survived numerous appeals and eventually Kortwright bowled him.

Grace turned to look at the wreckage of his wicket, removed his gloves and started back to the pavilion. "Are you going, Doctor?" enquired Kortwright, "You've still got one stump standing!"

[Salvatore]

I think Kortwright has featured in the nominative determinism thread.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Not surprisingly, there are plenty to choose from.

This is a cycling forum, so referencing the framebuilder seemed essential.

[Peter]

Yes, I remember that.  It has the same ring as Catty Lennon's jibe about Ringo, "He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles".

As with so many tales like this, it's almost certainly not true:

Did John Lennon Say 'Ringo Wasn’t Even the Best Drummer in the Beatles'?

Bobb, I'm very relieved by that.  I've always thought Ringo a terrific drummer ( I think he is a leftie who plays the kit set up orthodoxly?).  And while I'm sure John was capable of such a remark, his voice is my favourite in The Beatles, though I'm of the opinion that The Beatles are a thing, rather than four separate individuals.

Very happy to be relieved of that burden!