2023 Results are in (unofficial)

[surfinggraham]

I missed getting my brevet stamped at Tinteniac, but my timer chip worked. At the finish they checked online on their phone, saw I'd been through and simply wrote "OK" in the Tinteniac block in my card.

[Von Broad]

Am I missing the blatantly obvious here?
I can't quite understand why the brevets cards were not kept at the end of the ride?
I can see the advantage of not subsequently posting them back along with a medal and any other info, it saves a lot of admin hassle, but surely it would make ACP's job so much easier to check a missing timer chip on a riders control history? Quick look at the brevet card sees the rider has gone through the control with the necessary stamp and time, no problem - rider validated.
I guess it will all be sorted but it's going to take a lot of messing about to get there, and a lot of input from the riders emailing in saying, "my brevet card shows....".

Meanwhile I can temporarily bask in the glory or knocking twenty hours of my previous times 

[davocon]

It does strike me that they thought through “what happens if their brevet card is missing a stamp” but not fully “what happens if they missed a timing chip” as I can’t see a way for them to avoid some hefty post ride admin for people in those situations. A laptop at the finish and a way to manually update from the brevet card would have given them a fully accurate electronic record immediately.
But maybe there are things in place we didn’t see in our sleep deprived states?

[Wycombewheeler]

It does strike me that they thought through “what happens if their brevet card is missing a stamp” but not fully “what happens if they missed a timing chip” as I can’t see a way for them to avoid some hefty post ride admin for people in those situations. A laptop at the finish and a way to manually update from the brevet card would have given them a fully accurate electronic record immediately.
But maybe there are things in place we didn’t see in our sleep deprived states?

of course because riders make mistakes, but their timing system is infallable 
not even considering the riders parking their bikes outside the dormitories at Fougeres and not crossing the timing chip near the control building 

[Graeme]

The control times tell some interesting stories. I'm particularly impressed by those who were increasingly slow on the approach to Dreux (presumably resting well at each control) and then suddenly found 20+kph to cover these last 45km just before the cut off. The effort of a lifetime! Chapeau!

[Graeme]

I really feel for those who put huge efforts in to reach the finish line and are OTL by minutes. There are some extraordinary efforts: I really feel for the British rider who buried himself from Mortagne-au-Perche only to miss the cutoff by 2 minutes. The French rider too: 1 minute 4 seconds OTL.

[Wycombewheeler]

I really feel for the British rider who buried himself from Mortagne-au-Perche only to miss the cutoff by 2 minutes.

Just think, 10 seconds less at each control and he would have been in time.
1 minute less per control and he would not have needed a heroic effort after Mortagne.

(Ignoring the possibility he joined groups as they were passing)

[abc123]

Hello,
I have been looking at the PBP data (from https://track.rtrt.me/e/CC-2023) and had some questions for anyone who rode this year's event, please:

Overall, almost 75% of riders are recorded as having a slower pace for the first stage than they did for the second stage (averaging over all riders, pace 1 is about 96% of pace 2)
I wasn't expecting that (assuming fresh legs and minimum non riding time included in stage 1 times). The average rate of ascent looks a bit higher for stage 2 than stage 1, so is the first stage just a bit harder than the second stage?

If you calculate the stage pace from the stage times and stage distances, the calculated values match the published stage paces for every rider on every stage, apart from stage 1 and stage 2. For every rider, the published pace value for stage 1 is less than the pace value calculated from the rider's time. For stage 2, the published pace value is always greater than the calculated pace value. The differences are small (fractions of a km/hr) but consistent, and for all other stages, published pace and calculated pace match exactly.

I tried adjusting the calculations to use the group start times, rather than actual start times (many riders will take a few minutes to roll over the first timing mat, so the actual start time is not the same as the group start time) but this doesn't appear to account for the differences.

Basically, I wondered if anyone noticed anything funny about the stage 1 and stage 2 time recording (e.g. timing mats on the exit from the control, rather than the entrance?) or noted discrepancies between the official stage 1 and 2 times or distances and your own recorded results?

[T42]

I really feel for the British rider who buried himself from Mortagne-au-Perche only to miss the cutoff by 2 minutes.

Just think, 10 seconds less at each control and he would have been in time.
1 minute less per control and he would not have needed a heroic effort after Mortagne.

(Ignoring the possibility he joined groups as they were passing)

Did they use ankle-bracelet transponders this year?  If so, he could have pled that the extra effort required to twirl the thing slowed him down.

[John Stonebridge]

Basically, I wondered if anyone noticed anything funny about the stage 1 and stage 2 time recording (e.g. timing mats on the exit from the control, rather than the entrance?) or noted discrepancies between the official stage 1 and 2 times or distances and your own recorded results?

Others may know better but from my curtailed ride I recall only one timing mat at Mortagne at 120km and it was as I left.  I wasn't actually expecting one at all there tbh.   

At Villaines Im certain it was on arrival (based on my displayed time it had to be). 

[grams]

Yes, the timing mat was at the Brestward side of Mortagne, so all those crazy high speed big group miles aren’t well reflected.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

That makes a lot of sense, as I stopped for just over 20 minutes in Mortagne.  Based on my Garmin data, ignoring the stopped time in Mortagne my speeds were virtually identical for the two legs

[abc123]

Thanks everyone, that's really useful, and helps to explain the results, if the time stopped at control 1 has been included in the first stage time, and the stage 2 time is effectively just riding time.
The 25% of riders who recorded a faster time on stage 1 also appear to be faster overall finishers than the 75% who rode faster on stage 2, i.e. they probably bounced the first control and their overall timings are therefore influenced less by the mat being on the exit side.

[Flâneur]

If you calculate the stage pace from the stage times and stage distances, the calculated values match the published stage paces for every rider on every stage, apart from stage 1 and stage 2. For every rider, the published pace value for stage 1 is less than the pace value calculated from the rider's time. For stage 2, the published pace value is always greater than the calculated pace value. The differences are small (fractions of a km/hr) but consistent, and for all other stages, published pace and calculated pace match exactly.

I think there are some funny things in the data still (maybe always will be). For instance, my timings record that I covered Pleyben to Carhaix in 2hrs46*, at a speed of 7.65km/h, so from this one would surmise it's 21km from Pleyben to Carhaix. Nick Dehaan covered the same section in 1h14 @ 28.94km/h, which suggests a distance of 35.7km. My GPS trace indicates 39km between the controls. Who knows?

*in my defence, I had a mechanical

[IanF]

The timing mat location at Mortagne might have something to do with the speed difference noted, but I didn't stop there and my speed from there to Villaines was still faster, so something else may be going on!

[abc123]

I'm trying to do similar analysis to the charts I produced for LEL last year, and it would be very useful to get some actual GPS recordings of the event (including times) to validate what I am doing. If anyone is happy to share their ride data, please send me a DM.
Thanks

[Lightning Phil]

The first stage will have been hotter, the start is cobbles, it will have had more congestion than stage 2. People would have put their PBP gilet on sometime during stage 1.  Faffing and clothing adjustment on stage 1. Stopping to get more water at road side. The difference in speeds can be accounted for by 5 or less minutes stopped time.  Lots of reasons, non of them important or useful to know in the scheme of things.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Group F had a lead vehicle that slowed the group quite a bit from the start and for quite a distance, until we were well past the aftermath of a fairly serious bike crash.

[thing1]

The first stage will have been hotter, the start is cobbles, it will have had more congestion than stage 2. People would have put their PBP gilet on sometime during stage 1.  Faffing and clothing adjustment on stage 1. Stopping to get more water at road side. The difference in speeds can be accounted for by 5 or less minutes stopped time.  Lots of reasons, non of them important or useful to know in the scheme of things.

But the 84h starters on Monday morning had the same slow stage 1 effect.
The initial ride out being neutralised behind a pace vehicle was my first thought too, it was for 15km so 15% of the stage. But different timing mat at Mortagne sounds likely cause too

[zacklaws]

Basically, I wondered if anyone noticed anything funny about the stage 1 and stage 2 time recording (e.g. timing mats on the exit from the control, rather than the entrance?) or noted discrepancies between the official stage 1 and 2 times or distances and your own recorded results?

Others may know better but from my curtailed ride I recall only one timing mat at Mortagne at 120km and it was as I left.  I wasn't actually expecting one at all there tbh.   

At Villaines Im certain it was on arrival (based on my displayed time it had to be).

My memory is getting a bit "skant" at the moment about it now but I cannot recall seeing any timing mats at any of the controls such as what I have seen in the past on PBP when we wore ankle tags in 2015 and on sportives  etc I have done years ago

But, same as 2019, what I contrived as what was recording the times was those little yellow plastic ramps about 12" wide which every control had and which looked liked they was protecting cables as we crossed them on entry and exit at controls. The start line and finish line had them. If I recall in some places there was two in quick succession just a few feet apart.

[frillipippi]

Group A safety car during stage 1 slowed down the pace significantly, and took a wrong turn too. When this happened, the fastest riders immediately behind it didn't notice the mistake and followed it for a while, losing "precious" minutes. I know it because I had already lost contact with them and was proceeding at my own, much slower pace: suddenly I was overtaken by this train of A riders pushing like hell (in the meanwhile the safety car had left them), asked them how it came that they were behind me, and they told me about the wrong turn.

To me, the absence of the safety car in stage 2 explains the faster average.

[Wycombewheeler]

Group A safety car during stage 1 slowed down the pace significantly, and took a wrong turn too. When this happened, the fastest riders immediately behind it didn't notice the mistake and followed it for a while, losing "precious" minutes. I know it because I had already lost contact with them and was proceeding at my own, much slower pace: suddenly I was overtaken by this train of A riders pushing like hell (in the meanwhile the safety car had left them), asked them how it came that they were behind me, and they told me about the wrong turn.

To me, the absence of the safety car in stage 2 explains the faster average.

stage 1 included any time spent at Mortagne, while stage 2 included zero stopped time. This had more impact that the time behind the safety car.

[zigzag]

my speed was slower by 0.9kph on the first leg which i attribute to slow safety car for the first 11km, having to turn around after the car led us off course and three steep-ish climbs before mortagne. i didn't otherwise stop until villaines.

[frillipippi]

Group A safety car during stage 1 slowed down the pace significantly, and took a wrong turn too. When this happened, the fastest riders immediately behind it didn't notice the mistake and followed it for a while, losing "precious" minutes. I know it because I had already lost contact with them and was proceeding at my own, much slower pace: suddenly I was overtaken by this train of A riders pushing like hell (in the meanwhile the safety car had left them), asked them how it came that they were behind me, and they told me about the wrong turn.

To me, the absence of the safety car in stage 2 explains the faster average.

stage 1 included any time spent at Mortagne, while stage 2 included zero stopped time. This had more impact that the time behind the safety car.

You're right, the safety car only impacted fast riders while refilling bottles (etc.) at Mortagne impacted the wide majority of us - only exception I can think of: super-fast cyclists with their own staff that handled them new bottles as if they were at the Tour 

[zigzag]

fwiw, i carried 3l in 4 bottles, which lasted up to villaines. i was a little jealous (every time i ride pbp) of supported riders carrying not much with them. my loaded bike weighed 15kg :'(