Campy Pro-Fit pedals - possible to adjust bearings so swing more freely?

[Oxford_Guy]

Hi - I have some Campagnolo Record Pro-Fit clipless pedals that I got at a good price that I was thinking of using for the Mercian Strada Speciale I have on order, but to try to get used to them first, to reduce the chance of a "clipless moment" on my brand new bike, for now I've attached them to my Hewitt Cheviot tourer (I'm not touring at this time of year). I've only used 2-bolt SPD pedals clipless pedals previously.

First impressions are that the bearings are lovely and smooth, they're comfortable to ride on, they provide a very positive click when clipping in and are easy to clip out of when you want to (and no clipping out when you don't want to). They also look great.

On the downside, whilst the bearings rotate smoothly, there appears to be a little resistance (pre-load?) to rotation which means the pedals don't spin completely freely under the own weight, so they don't always hang with their backs pointing downwards . This makes clipping in a bit problematic, I always have to look down to see which position the pedal is in before clipping in with my left foot, which isn't ideal at busy junctions, and a few times I've accidentally put my foot down and tried to clip in on the wrong side of the pedal, which has led to some awkward moments.

So, I was wondering, is it possible to adjust the bearings on these pedals so that they spin more freely under their own weight, without making the bearings have too much play? The pedals themselves are new and look well-packed (perhaps too well packed) with the white factory grease. Thanks.

[Brucey]

please correct me if I have remembered it wrongly but IIRC those pedals have three cartridge bearings on the spindle.  If you slacken the nut on the end of the spindle it just means that the bearings are not held on the spindle correctly; I don't think it is meant to be an adjustment per se?

With any assembly of this sort there are three sources of drag;

a) bearing preload x bearing surface roughness.  Bearing preload with cartridge bearings is set by the fit of the bearings into the pedal body. Both tolerances in the bearing manufacture and the pedal body are relevant to this. Smooth bearings feel smooth even if the preload is way too high.

b) seal drag. If there are lip seals on the bearings they will only work if there is a film of lubricant at the seal lip. This film is somewhat draggy.

c) lubricant drag; thick/sticky/dried out grease will be rather draggy.

NOS or not, those pedals will be quite old now; campag have not made any for quite a few years now. The grease will be part-way dried out and much stickier than normal. This will add to b) and c).  Once the grease is cleaned out (or simply diluted with oil *) you can test for a) type drag.

IME any ( where the housing is leak tight....**) assembly with cartridge bearings in it benefits from the following treatment;

1) pick out all the seals from all the bearings apart from the outside ones through which water and road crud might get at the bearings
2) pack the housing with a semi-fluid grease (SFG).

SFG can have the same consistency as tomato ketchup, i.e. it will more or less stay put when not being sheared but flow very easily once disturbed; it will have less c) type drag and less b) type drag. It will keep the seal lips wetted better than a #2 type grease too. A reduced airspace inside the housing will result in less lube displacement through 'breathing' (as the air temperature/pressure changes).

(*) with dried grease and new pedals like that I'd probably just pick out the seals as described above and then add oil (eg gear oil) to the housing when reassembling each pedal. This will make a kind of DIY SFG. You will be able to tell if you have overdone it or not (fluidity-wise) by how much leakage you get. Generally speaking you can use a lube that is mostly oil, provided it doesn't leak out too fast.

(**) some housings that are meant to be leak tight are not. Sometimes this is a bonus (you can add more lube through a screw hole, for example) but other times it just causes leaks.

hth

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

Thanks Brucey, I think you're right, they're not cup and cone bearings, but cartridge bearings, so not adjustable per se. The technical manual mentions the cartridge bearings in a few places: https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_43_Technical%20manual%20-%20pro%20fit%20plus%20pedals%20Campagnolo_06_12.pdf

I think Campagnolo may still actually make these pedals (as they do for some other "old" items, such as the Record threaded headset), I could be wrong, they're still listed on their website and are available to buy from a number of online stores.

The grease seems white and quite fresh, not yellow and dried, though I might try picking out the seals on the inner bearings and adding some gear oil to the housing.

[Oxford_Guy]

This guide to replacing the bearings (not that I'm going to do that, but what Brucey has suggested requires removing the bearings I think), might help:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/campagnolo/campagnolo-profit-pedal-bearing-replacement-326156.html#post4651309

Sounds like you need a bearing puller tool to remove the bearings, though, which I don't have, and in the words of the author of the article "unless the bearings are really shot, I wouldn’t bother with all this" but he does go onto say " "Because you can push the spacer aside, greasing the bearings is very easy without removing them" 

[Brucey]

so the bearings (from nearest the crank) are

a) - 9x17x5  = 628/9  = 689  (need 689-2RS for sealing purposes)
b) - 9x17x4 = 618/9  =  689
c) - 7x17x5 =  619/7  = 697

note that a) and b) bearings are different widths.

these bearings are quite a bit beefier than those in a lot of pedals. I would imagine that if you keep them well lubricated and the water out, they will last almost indefinitely.  What is surprising to me is that the spindle is only 9mm diameter as close to the crank as it is.

cheers

[Brucey]

FWIW probably the easiest way to lube these pedals (assuming there is no lube port) is to remove the spindle cartridge, then about  half-fill the pedal body with the lube of your choice, and then reinstall the spindle cartridge (slowly).  Provided there is only one lip seal, the lube is fairly fluid and the reinstallation is done slowly, the new lube will purge all the old stuff out of the bearings.  Old lube will ooze from under the retaining sleeve and (probably) a little more will emerge the first time the bike is ridden. Thus there is a little wiping up to be done.

This procedure is basically the same as works with SPD pedals that have a bearing cartridge assembly that is retained by a pastrycutter sleeve (that uses TL-PD40) or a 17mm hexagon.

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

Thanks Brucey - for the technique you describe, would using gear oil work, or just regular bike grease?

[Brucey]

the risk is that you push the seal out of the end bearing by trying to force grease through it. If you do that, gear oil will leak out of the pedal and you will have to disassemble the pedal (at least partly) to put the seal back again.  Getting the extant (thick, sticky) grease pushed though the seal without dislodging it will be tricky.

Thinking about it maybe the thing to do is to put a relatively small amount of gear oil the pedal to start with, so that an airspace remains in the pedal even after it is assembled again. This way the oil will mix with the grease and make something a bit more fluid, easier to push through the seal the next time you lube it.

If the collar pulls away from the bearing far enough, you should be able to replace the seal in the end bearing without a lot of work, should it come adrift.

Note that something gets pushed through the bearings every time the spindle is reinstalled; usually this is just air though. If you have something very fluid inside the pedal, best to replace the spindle with the pedal thread uppermost, so that air is forced through the bearings first.

cheers