Which Bryan Chapman

[Redlight]

OK, I'm sure there are many opinions on this buried in other threads but life is short...

So, all this talk of Travelodges has made me start thinking about next year and maybe getting a few forms in the post. 

I've never done the Bryan Chapman so, apart from an extra quarter point for the climbs, can anyone enlighten me as to the significant differences between the BCM and the BCM Scenic?  And which would be the best for a first-timer? 

For guidance, I have no difficulties with the distance but I tend to find the long steady climbs (of the LEL variety) comfortable, but am not good on the short sharp ones (of the Kernow & South West variety).

Rob

[Paul D]

Do the 2004. The Scenic is mostly similar but includes a few different (read 'slower/steeper etc) ways of getting to the same place. The Elan Valley from Rhyader is the most 'infamous' detour.

I've done the 2004 twice. I reckon I'm ready for the Scenic this year. Glad I didn't do it on my first attempt - the 2004 is tough enough.

[Weirdy Biker]

I've done both.  Each is a cracking ride.  But imho you don't gain that much more out of the scenic, mainly the Elan reservoirs and a couple of not entirely necessary climbs.  Certainly not enough to trade off the possibility of descending off Snowdonia in daylight and more kip in Kings YH.

[Nuncio]

And if you enter the 2004, there's nothing to stop your picking and choosing Scenic legs if you feel the inclination (excuse the pun).  The converse is not the case.  Most of the 2004 climbing is of the long and steady variety.  I can't comment on the scenic.

[border-rider]

Enter the 2004.

You can always take the scenic diversions if the weather suits - I usually do a couple of them - but if it's bad you'll welcome getting back to Dolgellau that hour or so sooner.

edit: what Nuncio said

[Paul D]

Yeah, the scenic isn't all doom & gloom. The lane from Boughrood is a lovely and no slower alternative to the 'orrible A470 to Builth. You ride it on the Brevet Cymru. No doubt that's one of the bits MV also always rides.

[border-rider]

Yeah, the scenic isn't all doom & gloom. The lane from Boughrood is a lovely and no slower alternative to the 'orrible A470 to Builth. You ride it on the Brevet Cymru. No doubt that's one of the bits MV also always rides.

Yep

[Weirdy Biker]

Most of the 2004 climbing is of the long and steady variety.  I can't comment on the scenic.

As is the scenic, but there are some quite challenging climbs mixed in.  The one before Dolleglau (or however you spell it) springs to mind, as do a couple as you head back towards Englandshire.  Around Knighton has a few, something about an observatory is burnt into the memory bank. <Edit: Spaceguard>

Then again, there is a right bugger of a climb on the 2004, before the return to Monmouth.  You think you are done with the climbing and a wall confronts you.

All good fun though - can think of worse ways to spend a weekend!

[border-rider]

Then again, there is a right bugger of a climb on the 2004, before the return to Monmouth.  You think you are done with the climbing and a wall confronts you.

Llancloudy, just before Welsh Newton.  I might try the Scenic detour just to avoid that.  The roller-coasters leading up to it are not good on fixed either.

At least at the top of it it's a couple of miles of fast downhill, then a load of mostly-flat to Tintern

[Manotea]

Then again, there is a right bugger of a climb on the 2004, before the return to Monmouth.  You think you are done with the climbing and a wall confronts you.

Llancloudy, just before Welsh Newton.  I might try the Scenic detour just to avoid that.  The roller-coasters leading up to it are not good on fixed either.

At least at the top of it it's a couple of miles of fast downhill, then a load of mostly-flat to Tintern

I don't recall the run up to Llancloudy as being exceptionally tough, though llancloudy itself was more than big enough. I'm sure I'll manage it next year....

[mattc]

Yeah, the scenic isn't all doom & gloom. The lane from Boughrood is a lovely and no slower alternative to the 'orrible A470 to Builth. You ride it on the Brevet Cymru. No doubt that's one of the bits MV also always rides.

Well ... you do get a bonus extra chevron to climb (where the BC400 control sits on top). [unless there's a short cut somewhere ... ] So it HAS to be a good few minutes slower (though it is very nice).

[Paul D]

Well ... you do get a bonus extra chevron to climb

I remember being worried about that at the time, but when you get there it's one of those so-short-it-hardly-registers chevron climbs. You can virtually get to the top of it by momentum (honest).

I will conceed that there's probably a few minutes lost on this route rather than the A470...you don't get to draft artic lorries every 60 seconds.

[vorsprung]

Then again, there is a right bugger of a climb on the 2004, before the return to Monmouth.  You think you are done with the climbing and a wall confronts you.

Llancloudy, just before Welsh Newton.  I might try the Scenic detour just to avoid that.  The roller-coasters leading up to it are not good on fixed either.

At least at the top of it it's a couple of miles of fast downhill, then a load of mostly-flat to Tintern

Obviously the Llancloudy big hill is quite big and not quite what you want at that stage of the game

But the stuff leading up to it is great fun on gears, get up to 50kph downhill and then see how far up the next one you can get standing on the big ring.

As for the OP question, "scenic or 2004" both are utterly beautiful but for the first attempt maybe the 2004 is a better idea as it is somewhat easier

[MSeries]

Do the 2004 route, most other people will be doing that so you have a better chance of finding riding companions.

[BlackSheep]

Do the 2004 route, most other people will be doing that so you have a better chance of finding riding companions.

Sound advice for the BCM virgin MSeries, although if you're very strong in "Welsh spring weather" the scenic can repay with some extra rewards.
A rough summing-up of the differences:-
1) 2004 - slightly faster roads, although a km or so further.
    Scenic - Mainly lanes, a bit quieter, possibly not so fast.
2) 2004 - Main roads all the way to next control, slightly longer (IIRC).
    Scenic - Lanes to Buith, and again through the Elan Valley, probably more work as the lumps are more pronounced.
3) Route same for both stages, until the final drop into Dolellau - when Scenic takes slightly more direct route.
4, 5) Route same for both stages.
6) Route almost same for both routes, difference being scenic climbs out of Dolgellau slightly more direct. And a bit of a lumpier short-cut mid-way through the stage.
7)  The scenic has a very short divert after the first climb, and does climb-up after Knighton. but then the routes converge  before Weobley
the 2004 route is slightly longer (by the odd km) but does get to enjoy the Llancloudy climb. The Scenic misses-out on Llancloudy, but finds plenty to climb in it's place. Once in Monmouth - the routes to the finish are identical.     
I've managed 6 BCMs, the rides being split 3 of each.

The smart move is to enter the 2004, and do the scenic bits if you want.

[scottlington]

I did the BCM for the first time this year and did the Scenic. Apart from the obvious and aforementioned hilliness the worst thing I found about doing the scenic was the 'forced' divergence from my companions at that time. Only I was doing the scenic and I did find it a little soul-destroying especially when I was tired and the 'weather' set in - the last thing I wanted to be doing was turning away from a safe little group and climbing some beastly hill on my own... 

Biggest mistake I made though was to actually enter the Scenic - as others have mentioned, I should have entered the 2004 and done the scenic bits if I wanted to. Next year I will do the 2004 and probably forever more. I've done the scenic and have no need to do it again.

[Chris N]

I've done the 2004 twice. I reckon I'm ready for the Scenic this year. Glad I didn't do it on my first attempt - the 2004 is tough enough.

Like Paul I've done the 2004 twice - so will be riding the Scenic this year, if only to see what the fuss is all about the difference is.  I'm still going to aim to be in at least in Llanberis in daylight.

The 2004 is hard enough but wonderfully organised and recommended as a first (and still my only) 600.  The large field, great controls and stunning scenery are definitely worth it.

[TOBY]

I've done the 2004 twice. I reckon I'm ready for the Scenic this year. Glad I didn't do it on my first attempt - the 2004 is tough enough.

Like Paul I've done the 2004 twice - so will be riding the Scenic this year, if only to see what the fuss is all about the difference is.  I'm still going to aim to be in at least in Llanberis in daylight.

The 2004 is hard enough but wonderfully organised and recommended as a first (and still my only) 600.  The large field, great controls and stunning scenery are definitely worth it.

I rode the 2004 last year it was fantastic and I can’t recommend it enough for all the reasons already listed. That said like Paul and Chris I'll be entering the Scenic this year – it has a shorter list of finishers so you look a bit more exclusive innit?

[Hummers]

The Scenic splits away from the main group a number of times, only to join them again later. Pay attention or you'll be trundling along and miss your turn off (especially the first one). I found the joining and leaving of the main group quite dispiriting if you are on your own - especially in bad weather - but as you will be in a group of your own, this shouldn't be so much of a problem.

It also uses potholed, grotty and (in 2009) flooded lanes which is a stark contrast to the buttery smooth and perfectly acceptable quietish A roads of the 2004.

I found the first 200k on the BCM Scenic pretty tough and arrived in the YHA pretty shot away.

H

[Hot Flatus]

Ridden it twice.  First go was the Scenic in 2007, second time was last august as a DIY but taking in some of the 2004 roads I didn't know.

Next year I'll be entering the Scenic 

[TOBY]

Ridden it twice.  First go was the Scenic in 2007, second time was last august as a DIY but taking in some of the 2004 roads I didn't know.

Next year I'll be entering the Scenic 

Are you taking the baby on the bike or in the bag drop?

[Hot Flatus]

She'll be old enough to have a bakkie by then