Bealach na Ba - now in fluo yellow

[David Martin]

Entries for the 2010 Bealach na Ba challenge open in about an hour. Apparently next year you have to wear a fluorescent bib on the ride 

[Mrs Pingu]

sounds like a good reason for not doing it.

[nuttycyclist]

FFS

How can we make comment to the organisers that "Elf and Safe Tea" from their perspective doesn't actually boil down to anything on the road.




Two immediate thoughts come to mind:
1) Immediately after France said that Hi-Viz had to be carried for all car occupants I witnessed the victims of a collision at the road side.   Bright hot sunny day, excellent visibility, I'd have seen the people whether in yellow or not.  They'd been in the car in the toll booth queue, and then rear ended by a driver who hadn't noticed all the warning signs (over 2km*?), flashing lights, lanes widening into 10, barriers and buildings across the road, etc

2) Dartford patrol hit and witnessed by Mrs Wow

















* maybe they should have used miles 

[Martin]

is that so all the traffic can see the cyclists? I think I saw one car on the whole road when I did it (and they were cyclists who'd abandoned the climb due to the weather)

bloody stupid; I hope riders will vote with their feet

[Chris N]

What traffic?  The road will be closed:

Please be aware that if you enter either the Bealach Beag or the Bealach Mor you will be required to wear a fluorescent bib throughout the event. This is a condition that we need to abide by in order to secure the road closure over the Bealach na ba to Applecross. We will endeavour to source as cycle friendly bibs as possible but they must be worn.

Rules

[mattc]

bloody stupid; I hope riders will vote with their feet

Martin,
I agree, but with respect (cos we've discussed the lids issue before), why do you say this, whilst approving a helmet rule? Are you expecting to fall on your head, but never get SMIDSYed?

---------------
Incidentally, their 'rules' have some good bits:

All riders are recommended to carry 2 drink bottles, an energy bar or similar snack, tools 2 replacement inner tubes.  We also advise that riders carry I/D and a small amount of money.  In the event of bad weather, you must take a waterproof jacket.  You will be issued with an instruction before the start and not be permitted to start without it.

[hellymedic]

David Martin posted a picture somewhere on yacf showing how fluo yellow can be less conspicuous in the Scottish countryside. Crazy.

[Martin]

bloody stupid; I hope riders will vote with their feet

Martin,
I agree, but with respect (cos we've discussed the lids issue before), why do you say this, whilst approving a helmet rule? Are you expecting to fall on your head, but never get SMIDSYed?

I wondered how long this thread would last before someone brought helmets up  

there is a big difference IMO, hiviz vests on a sparsely trafficked or even closed road is of vitually no benefit to anybody; it's just box ticking. Unless the riders can't see each other without vests...

<cynic>
BTW; do they insist on riders wearing official vests? ie ones with a sponsor's name on?
</cynic>

and since when have I approved of compulsory helmets on any event? it's the insurers who insisted on that.

[toontra]

FFS

How can we make comment to the organisers that "Elf and Safe Tea" from their perspective doesn't actually boil down to anything on the road.

I think you'll find that this isn't at the organiser's instigation.  Locals have been moaning long and hard about these events and using any old excuse to get them banned, including safety, so I think this is the organisers attempt to compromise and mollify the natives.

[mattc]

I wondered how long this thread would last before someone brought helmets up  

They are both safety measures of hotly-debated effectiveness, which are forced on riders by organisers of some events, despite not being required on the public highway. [and in events which are NOT races.]
So I thought it was relevant.

...
and since when have I approved of compulsory helmets on any event? it's the insurers who insisted on that.

So do you think riders should vote with their feet, and not enter lid-rule events ... ?

[Martin]

They are both safety measures of hotly-debated effectiveness, which are forced on riders by organisers of some events, despite not being required on the public highway. [and in events which are NOT races.]
So I thought it was relevant.

well I think there is a big difference; helmets are commonplace (if not always mandatory) on all cycling events; with the exception of the Skyride and PBP tabards are not. But YMMV 

So do you think riders should vote with their feet, and not enter lid-rule events ... ?

absolutely; if they don't want to wear one

[Graeme Wyllie]

At the risk of being accused of thought crime, it seems a fairly sensible move to me.  

I'll maybe apply a similar rule to my calendar audax events. 
 

[RJ]

What traffic?  The road will be closed:

Please be aware that if you enter either the Bealach Beag or the Bealach Mor you will be required to wear a fluorescent bib throughout the event. This is a condition that we need to abide by in order to secure the road closure over the Bealach na ba to Applecross. We will endeavour to source as cycle friendly bibs as possible but they must be worn.

Rules

Blame either the Highland Council, or Northern Constabulary.

[Rig of Jarkness]

David Martin posted a picture somewhere on yacf showing how fluo yellow can be less conspicuous in the Scottish countryside. Crazy.

What's crazy is that anyone can suggest that the background colour of the Scottish countryside is fluo yellow !  Grey, yes, green, yes, purple, yes (in August), even black & white when stood in front of a field of belted galloways but never, ever, fluo yellow !  Unless of course the route goes past Dounreay in which case I suppose anything's possible !

[nuttycyclist]

David Martin posted a picture somewhere on yacf showing how fluo yellow can be less conspicuous in the Scottish countryside. Crazy.

What's crazy is that anyone can suggest that the background colour of the Scottish countryside is fluo yellow !  Grey, yes, green, yes, purple, yes (in August), even black & white when stood in front of a field of belted galloways but never, ever, fluo yellow !  Unless of course the route goes past Dounreay in which case I suppose anything's possible !

I think hellymedic might actually be thinking of a post I made based on David Martin's photographs.

A couple more hi-viz thoughts, now I've found David Martin's photos that I was thinking of from elsewhere on the forum (hope you don't mind me re-posting.)



Hi-Viz waistcoat is invisible, but the red sleeves stand out ok.  Had that rider been in all hi-viz top, or bare arms, how invisible would they have been?



The rider in hi-viz orange and yellow is nowhere near as visible as the rider in blue.

In response to charterhall, just look at that first photo, had that rider been in a hi-viz yellow jacket instead of a red jacket with hi-viz tabbard, they'd have been practically invisible.

Also, and I haven't the reference, a cyclist was killed on a dual carriageway.  At the inquest the judge commented that as the driver was heading into the sunset the cyclist was invisible due to the fact their hi-viz clothing was the same colour as the background.


I make a point of wearing clothes that are a contrast to the surroundings so that I am visible.  1 time in a hundred this is Hi-Viz.  My biggest regret is that my rain jacket is an Altura in hi-viz yellow; trying them on in the shop I was torn between the sensible black one, and the comfortable yucky coloured one.  In the end I settled for comfort over style.

[hellymedic]

Thanks nutty!
Fluo yellow is sometimes NOT conspicuous in some green and yellow backgrounds.

[Rig of Jarkness]

The photographs prove nothing - they are a reflection of the exposure settings of the camera. 

[hellymedic]

Agreed, but camera settings are often made to record/imitate what is perceived by the human eye/brain combination.
I doubt that this image would have been made or posted if the appearance to the human eye were substantially different.

[anth]

And I could go out this afternoon and easily get a photograph which showed the opposite (conditions making a dark-clothed rider almost invisible whereas a fluo one is very noticeable).

One swallow does not make a summer etc etc etc. In some circumstances hi-viz will be virtually invisible, in some circumstances hi-viz will be more visible. Why do people always see the world in a black-and-white (if you'll pardon the pun) this is completely right, this is completely wrong, way?

Or maybe I'm just more willing to accept than most when I might be wrong or when my case actually isn't as strong as it might be?

[anth]

Re. the rule itself. It has to simply be an attempt to omllify the locals, who really don't like the event (or a significant minority anyway) because otherwise requiring hi-viz, and so allegedly more visible to cars, in order to maintain the climb as being closed to cars side-steps logic completely.

[Jaded]

Which locals is it - those near the climb/Applecross, or those on the longer route - or all of 'em?

[anth]

Before this year's event there was a circular went round from the organisers. I think it was primarily people in and around Applecross, not happy at the shorter road out being closed for a few hours (it's a BIG detour otherwise). But there were also some alleged 'incidents' on the Bealach Beag, run earlier in the year, with cyclists blocking roads and (again, allegedly) not letting an ambulance through that was on a call for a rider who had fallen.

Now especially on that last point I have serious doubts as to the veracity, and I reckon a lot of it is down to cyclist preconceptions once again coming to the fore. But I wasn't there, so maybe it did happen as was reported.

[David Martin]

Anyhow, this is me on the ride this year:



There were a lot of riders in darker colours. Though how you could miss them is beyond belief. Maybe we should do a daily mash style article for GM red deer so they can be brightly coloured too.


And Anth, are you doing it this year? IMO a fluo bib is no worse than having to wear a polystyrene potty.

..d

[amaferanga]

IMO this is a cynical attempt by the Applecross CC nimby members (advised by the famous and highly-decorated audax champion (allegedly turned recluse) Tim Daplyn) to put cyclists off doing the event.  Looking at the entry list so far though it has clearly failed.  This has nothing to do with rider safety.

However, given that the Bealach is so often shrouded in cloud (well it has been both times I've been over) then I actually think a rear light may actually be a good idea.

[David Martin]

IMO this is a cynical attempt by the Applecross CC nimby members (advised by the famous and highly-decorated audax champion (allegedly turned recluse) Tim Daplyn) to put cyclists off doing the event.  Looking at the entry list so far though it has clearly failed.  This has nothing to do with rider safety.

However, given that the Bealach is so often shrouded in cloud (well it has been both times I've been over) then I actually think a rear light may actually be a good idea.

Why? If you need a cyclist to have a rear light in order to see them then you are driving far too fast for the conditions (and on a closed road) anyhow.

..d